PRS Talk Suppressor or Muzzle Brake?

[skulldragr17]

When it comes to PRS, I'm sure that a majority of you won't hesitate to say that a muzzle brake is much more advantageous than a suppressor. It does a better job at reducing the recoil, and therefore makes it easier to see trace/impacts while maintaining the fastest re-engagement times. I agree with that completely. What people fail to keep in mind is anticipation. Even some of the most experienced shooters catch themselves anticipating at times. Heck, many people anticipate and never even know it! I've seen it time and time again through ball and dummy drills. I've both witnessed and experienced that this anticipation can be mitigated or even eliminated with the use of a suppressor. A suppressor creates a "push," while a brake is more of a violent jerk. Sounds like a very minor thing, but actually makes quite a difference. For those of you that tried both, did you notice a difference? What are your thoughts on this? If you haven't tried it, I strongly encourage that you at least give it a try!

Of course, another bonus is you being able to preserve your hearing lol.

 

[Rob01]

Have shot both in matches and far prefer a brake. There's no violent jerk if the brake is a good one as that is what it should be stopping. Brakes reduce recoil more than suppressors. Yes there is more blast and noise but you are shooting a rifle match with other people shooting so you have to wear hearing protection anyways. Cans add extra length to the rifle. If I have extra length I want it to be barrel length to help with my velocity.

 

[blbennett1288]

In preparation for my first match, I was shooting with a suppressor, but after reading the PRS "what the pros use" blog and this thread I have decided to give a muzzle break a shot. I will post here what find from my experience.

 

[morganlamprecht]

ive run a can about 50% of the time since April 2016...Omega w/ anchor brake...on 6/6.5/308 in matches...what ive found, for me, if the prop/obstacle is rock solid, and it allows me to get a decent position behind the rifle, can vs brake, its a wash...on props that ARENT stable, or that are almost impossible to get in behind the gun is where i see the difference (loosely suspended windows, suspended ropes, chain tables, awkward positions where its basically free recoil, etc)...i rarely have a problem spotting my hits/misses with the can, but the extra disturbance from the can push slows me down a hair...im not much of a "timing" shooter, i dont have lots of wobble and break the trigger when my reticle passes so im already slower than most...most targets i spend a few extra seconds getting stable and hold within or right around the edges of the targets...the can slows me down a little bit more on top of it...ive miss counted rounds enough on stages to know i dont have a flinch lol when the stage is only 8 and you lose count and dry fire on 9...makes for good accidental practice lol

i still run my can off/on...i usually still shoot similar % either way, but what i notice is with the can i finish stages in the final 3-5 seconds, a lot more often than with the brake...with the brake i usually have 5-10 to spare

 

[lash]

I shot various comps, mostly local with a few large PRS matches, for a few years with neither. Just a bare barrel. Mid last year I received my suppressor for my .260 and have been using it since. At first, it did take some adjustment to get used to the new balance and length of my rifle, but I do like it quite a bit and for now am shooting everything suppressed.

 

[blbennett1288]

Has anyone tried the Dead Air Armament 7.62mm Key Mount Muzzle Brake on a 6.5 creedmoor?

 

[Forward543]

I use a can on a 6mm. The sound and concussion give me more shit than the recoil. I have issues with shot spotting on anything heavier than a 6mm and the can. The brake is far better for recoil management, but i am not a fan of repeated heavy concussion.

 

[JR869]

I don't have a can, I live in the crazy state.

As for breaks, I have a SJS Titan compensator on my AR and it is fantastic, very little recoil. There are someone that testing dozens of muzzle breaks/compensators and the SJS topped them all. At any rate, they also have one for .30 Cal as well and I wanted one from my 6.5CM. The .30 cal version has one less port or either side and doesn't have the any ports on the top like the AR versions, so I called them and talked with the owner to ask why. He told me it doesn't have the ports on top induce harmonics too much and affected the shot. I was sold and I love it.

 

[bab029]

I've got a $20 chinesium muzzle brake from Amazon. It doesn't bother me in the open, but anything in a tube, or under something is just awful. Shooting through those plastic Culverts is the worst. I'd not be surprised if there's a subconscious effect in these situations, and I can't wait for my ultra 9. I bet the recoil effect approaches a wash on the 6mms, especially the dasher. Adam Vaught talked about this exact effect on the precision rifle podcast a while back.

Tl;dr: Cans rock. I'm not so serious about all this, so I'll never shoot without it once I get it.

 

[lash]

Along that same vein of discussion, here's a small anecdote. Last weekend, I was shooting at the square range with my shooting buddy and his 9 y/o son, who, up until just very recently would not shoot center-fire rifle because he didn't like the noise (too loud). Well, two weeks ago, I brought extra ear plugs for him to wear under his muffs, and that made a big enough difference to him that suddenly he wants to shoot everything and is quite good out to the 300 m at the square range. So he took a turn at both of our .260 match rifles, my buddy's has a top of the line brake on it that reduces the recoil to negligible levels and mine wears a 9" Ti can.

After shooting both, he wanted to shoot mine more and not his father's rifle because the rifle with the brake "kicked more." Now I have shot both and I know that his brake reduces recoil better than my can, but the muzzle blast from that brake is just obnoxious. My rifle with the can has more recoil, but it is more of a push than a kick. Plus it is just so nice and quiet.

Moral of the story is that muzzle blast is definitely a factor to consider when shooting and can change a person's perception, even if science proves something else.

 

[morganlamprecht]

Along that same vein of discussion, here's a small anecdote. Last weekend, I was shooting at the square range with my shooting buddy and his 9 y/o son, who, up until just very recently would not shoot center-fire rifle because he didn't like the noise (too loud). Well, two weeks ago, I brought extra ear plugs for him to wear under his muffs, and that made a big enough difference to him that suddenly he wants to shoot everything and is quite good out to the 300 m at the square range. So he took a turn at both of our .260 match rifles, my buddy's has a top of the line brake on it that reduces the recoil to negligible levels and mine wears a 9" Ti can.

After shooting both, he wanted to shoot mine more and not his father's rifle because the rifle with the brake "kicked more." Now I have shot both and I know that his brake reduces recoil better than my can, but the muzzle blast from that brake is just obnoxious. My rifle with the can has more recoil, but it is more of a push than a kick. Plus it is just so nice and quiet.

Moral of the story is that muzzle blast is definitely a factor to consider when shooting and can change a person's perception, even if science proves something else.

this is funny cause i still see people...who have been around rifle matches for years, flinch when someone else shoots 50 yds away lol im always like wtf, like u havent heard 10000 muzzle blasts in your life...some people are just jumpy i guess...u can really see it when there are 100 yd prone stages and theres 10 shooters on the line at once...some guys are so worried about the next guys muzzle blast they cant hit the broad side of a barn, others of us dont even notice the other guys are shooting...everyone has their thing

 

[lash]

I have seen the same thing, so I know what you mean.

 

[onlyhedge]

I spent the first year with a brake. This year I switched to a Ultra338 can as I felt I did have a flinch. I have spent a few days recently and don't feel I flinch anymore so again re-evaluating running a can or not. I am considering doing exactly what Morgan just mentioned, some matches on, others off.

 

[noisewaterphd]

I like supressors on my hunting rifles, in fact, I'd rather not hunt without a supressor ever again. But for matches a 6mm with a good brake like The BFF will barely move, and it makes a big difference to me.

 

[MTFalconer]

Muzzle brakes also don't need an ATF letter to transport out of state for a match.

 

[NukeMMC]

Muzzle brakes also don't need an ATF letter to transport out of state for a match.

Last I knew, neither did a suppressor. Did something change? ATF Form 20 is for moving Machine Gun, SBR, DD out of state and when I moved from PA to SC and back to PA, ATF asked that I document the relocation on a Form 20 to simplify their paperwork. Their regulations still only required "written notification" last I knew.

 

[MTFalconer]

I thought it all fell under the same regulation as requiring written notification to cross a state line. Back when we traveled to knob creek we had to document everything traveling across state lines. I don't personally travel with them and have never done it but that was my understanding.

 

[ToddKS]

Per the email I have from the ATF Form 5320.20 is not required for suppressors, it is only recommended.

 

[tcamel4]

Not sure if its cool to revive this thread but I thought I would ask the writers here:

I"m shooting a 6.5cm on a Desert Tech with a 28in barrel and Omega suppressor with anchor brake. I haven't noticed a ton of recoil and have been able to spot my misses in my first two matches thus far. I mean, there have been a few wobbly things that I was unable to see it ... but not often. as far as length, its a bullpup with a suppressor, and still same length or shorter than a full length traditional stock and barrel. I can get in and out of car doors and pipes easy.

Am I wasting my time thinking of using a area 419 hellfire muzzle brake? The top shooters at the matches I've seen lately have been using muzzle brakes... but the suppressors in the top ten are always present, and I feel like the number is growing.

Over-thinking it?

 

[Tree]

Personally I prefer a suppressor to a brake. This is specifically to the OP point I do better with the lower noise and the "different" recoil impulse. I will only shoot suppressed going forward.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

I ran a can my first few matches, and I will never run one again in a match outside of something like Quiet Riot/Silent Night. The extra push (both in shoulder and off target) from a can compared to a high end brake isn't acceptable to me for matches. That said, I love running one on my training rifles and fun guns.

 

[msstate56]

I ran a brake for 2 years. Then I got a suppressor. Yes it does have more “push” but elimination of the concussion is worth it for me. I’ve had to shoot through too many pipes, culverts, or next to walls and rocks. I was tired of getting blasted. I like not having sand and rocks blown back at my face. The advantage of the can outweighs the recoil reduction of a brake- for me.

 

[lte82]

There's more to it than recoil reduction IMO. I see a slightly steadier hold with a can can hanging off the end than I do with a brake. The weight at the far end increases the moment of inertia and helps resist / slow movement. This is the same reason there's a trend towards 28" full 1.2" diameter barrels.

I also think there's a point of diminishing returns for reduced recoil. With slower low recoiling 6's like the BR, spotting impacts and staying relatively on target isnt hard with a can or brake. I think a brake offers very little speed advantage with these rounds and a heavy weight rifle. It's a different story with 6.5mm+ and lighter guns, as recoil definitely becomes much harder to manage. But again, if your hold is smaller and movement is slower, does your impact percentage for shots taken go up?

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

There's more to it than recoil reduction IMO. I see a slightly steadier hold with a can can hanging off the end than I do with a brake. The weight at the far end increases the moment of inertia and helps resist / slow movement. This is the same reason there's a trend towards 28" full 1.2" diameter barrels.

I also think there's a point of diminishing returns for reduced recoil. With slower low recoiling 6's like the BR, spotting impacts and staying relatively on target isnt hard with a can or brake. I think a brake offers very little speed advantage with these rounds and a heavy weight rifle. It's a different story with 6.5mm+ and lighter guns, as recoil definitely becomes much harder to manage. But again, if your hold is smaller and movement is slower, does your impact percentage for shots taken go up?

Not everyone is going to (or can) run a 20+ pound rifle with a MTU or heavier contour, though. My PRS rifle weighs in right at 17.5# with an empty mag inserted, and I won't be going any heavier. A 6 Creed in the 3030-3080 range with a 108 and a brake is a dream to shoot at that weight, but with a can it's MUCH harder to keep on target.

 

[CUBUFF89]

I've had my Omega for about 7 months now and I much prefer using it with the two rifles that have threaded barrels. I've shot 3 matches this year and shot through a couple of pipes and with the suppressor the concussion is not a factor at all. In fact the reduction in concussion is one benefit I like best about the can. As far as staying on target with the can, my match rifle is a 6.5 CM and it's one of the skills I've really been practicing. Depends on the stability of the position of course but I'm getting better at it. The tradeoff is worth it to me.

Don't know what it would be like to shoot within a pipe with a brake but I've got a pretty good idea after shooting a 3 gun match with a brake on my AR and having to shoot between 2 upright blue plastic barrels. I wasn't ready for the blast and concussion of that. It was downright obnoxious and I don't want to experience that again.

 

[BLKWLFK9]

I ran a brake on my BR for 2 matches this year, went back to the supressor, picked up 40 fps (more than usual with other guns) and shot much much better in my last match with it. I like the noise reduction and recoil push it provides. I can still spot misses too.

 

[kthomas]

I tend to disagree with the statements that a suppressor recoils much more than a muzzle brake and makes recoil mitigation much more difficult. The difference is there, but it isn't that pronounced, especially if you are properly applying the fundamentals.

I almost ways shoot braked, but shot the Quiet Riot match last year - first comp shooting suppressed. It was awesome. With proper application of fundamentals I didn't really notice much difference between a brake or can. What was MUCH more noticeable was how much nicer it was to not have a loud boom at the end of a barrel and the concussive blast. Zero issues with recoil mitigation, spotting misses, etc.

I look forward to the days where I shoot 100% suppressed.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

I tend to disagree with the statements that a suppressor recoils much more than a muzzle brake and makes recoil mitigation much more difficult. The difference is there, but it isn't that pronounced, especially if you are properly applying the fundamentals.

I almost ways shoot braked, but shot the Quiet Riot match last year - first comp shooting suppressed. It was awesome. With proper application of fundamentals I didn't really notice much difference between a brake or can. What was MUCH more noticeable was how much nicer it was to not have a loud boom at the end of a barrel and the concussive blast. Zero issues with recoil mitigation, spotting misses, etc.

I look forward to the days where I shoot 100% suppressed.

Shooting from prone, I agree that the difference isn't as noticable. Throw that rifle up on a barricade, though, and things start to change. If you're running a 20+ pound 6BR/BRA/Whatever, then maybe it's harder to see, but with a sub-18 pound 6 Creed I can see a very noticable difference. Hell, my 223 trainer (which is slightly lighter than my 6 Creed) with a TBAC U7 pushes me off target more than my 6 Creed with a brake does when doing positional drills. It's one of the reasons I run the can on my 223.

 

[lte82]

Shooting from prone, I agree that the difference isn't as noticable. Throw that rifle up on a barricade, though, and things start to change. If you're running a 20+ pound 6BR/BRA/Whatever, then maybe it's harder to see, but with a sub-18 pound 6 Creed I can see a very noticable difference. Hell, my 223 trainer (which is slightly lighter than my 6 Creed) with a TBAC U7 pushes me off target more than my 6 Creed with a brake does when doing positional drills. It's one of the reasons I run the can on my 223.

I'm starting to use a suppressed 6.5 creed for practice just to work on recoil management. Makes a braked or even suppressed 6mm feel like nothing.

 

[Hollywood 6mm]

I'm starting to use a suppressed 6.5 creed for practice just to work on recoil management. Makes a braked or even suppressed 6mm feel like nothing.

Same reason I run a can on my trainer. The more work I have to do when practicing, the easier it is in matches.

 

[kthomas]

Shooting from prone, I agree that the difference isn't as noticable. Throw that rifle up on a barricade, though, and things start to change. If you're running a 20+ pound 6BR/BRA/Whatever, then maybe it's harder to see, but with a sub-18 pound 6 Creed I can see a very noticable difference. Hell, my 223 trainer (which is slightly lighter than my 6 Creed) with a TBAC U7 pushes me off target more than my 6 Creed with a brake does when doing positional drills. It's one of the reasons I run the can on my 223.

I shot that comp with a 20 lb 6.5 creedmoor. It shot great off of barricades - got my fastest time ever on the barricade skills stage - 70 seconds and 7/8 - just barely missed the last shot off the right side of the plate because I'm a dodo.

I didn't feel handicapped by it at all, even on compromised positions such as barricades.

 

[Sierra770]

I shoot Tactical with suppressed .308. There is certainly a difference between a brake a suppressor. Kthomas nailed it, if you are on your fundamentals game, break clean shots and stay lean on the magnification, you can spot a majority of your shots with the suppressor. Naturally some barricades and positions are easier than others but it can be done. The brake really shines with the .308 but I still prefer the suppressor.

 

[ThePretzel]

I prefer to shoot with a suppressor simply because I highly value my hearing (I'm young, I've got a lot of years to go where I need it to last) and because the concussion from shooting with a brake requires me to intentionally avoid flinching when I shoot.

The PVA Jetblast was actually a usable brake for me from a concussion standpoint, they did a good job with that design, but it's still significantly louder than shooting a suppressed or even unbraked rifle. When I shoot a rifle with a brake I always double up on ear protection using my filtered plugs and a pair of muffs over the top of that. I've found the noise levels to be concerning even if I use a pair of unfiltered plugs, and depending on the position I'm shooting from or transitioning to the muffs can sometimes get bumped and lose effectiveness.

If there's a cattle gate stage though, or something similar, I've started sometimes taking the suppressor off and just dealing with doubled up earpro for that stage since it becomes a little ridiculous to move a 27" barrel plus a 7" suppressor in and out of slots like that. If I'm doing well in the match I'll do that, but if I'm not up near contention I would rather just continue to protect my ears and sacrifice the extra time it takes to change position.

As far as recoil goes I don't have issues using a suppressor or a brake, but that's because I shoot a heavy gun (27lbs loaded without bipod or suppressor) and a very low recoiling cartridge (6BR). I can spot my misses free-recoiling off a barricade using the suppressor anyways, which is good enough for me.

 

[THEIS]

If you can Purchase a suppressor legally, I would highly recommend one as they do the opposite of a brake in regards to muzzle blast. A good Suppressor would cost you $$$ but on a bolt rifle should last a very long time.

Hi,

Well you are getting a lot better at attempting to change up your copy and paste routine, but you do not quiet have it down pat.

Sincerely,
Theis

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Mar 5, 2012#4

D.IDWell-Known Member
Messages:838
Joinedec 24, 2008

If you can squire one legally where you live, I would highly recommend one as they do the opposite of a brake in regards to muzzle blast. A good one will cost an arm and a leg but on a bolt rifle should last a very long time................. WARNING: they are addictive and if you do this you may feel the strange urge to have one on everything you own. Don't say I didn't warn you......................Good luck

 

[The Durk]

I shoot suppressed, exclusively. I've filmed myself and I have this flinch when the recoil pushes into my shoulder, but not when I break the shot. The suppressor helps keep my eyes from completely closing and seeing impacts. I might try doubling up on ear pro to stop that as well.

 

[slowlearner]

I have ran a Area 419 brake as well as my Saker 762. I have also had my ear pro wiggle out a bit during a stage while running a brake. Definitely not comfortable, and some damage. So now I run a can because it is more comfortable for me overall.

Yes, I have more recoil, longer barrel to move around with, and more weight. But, I find the rifle to be more balanced on barricades now.

Also, if you shoot team matches, the ability to not have to yell through super ear pro is very nice and helps maintain efficiency between team members.

 

[ThePretzel]

The other thing to consider, that I realized after shooting my AR this weekend and reading the post from @The Durk , is that muzzle brakes can often make you blink right as you shoot.

Shooting my braked AR I blink nearly every time I pull the trigger, just because of the felt concussion. It's not quite as frequent when I shoot outdoors as indoors, but it's still often enough that it can throw you off from seeing a bullet trace. I specifically tried to avoid it to see if I could, but it's some kind of reflex that I can't really control when the rest of my face feels that.

I never blink when shooting suppressed because there is no concussion, and I don't flinch because the noise is never painful (even shooting indoors). Might be food for though, especially considering that some stages for PRS you will have to shoot from inside of an enclosure where the concussion and noise from a muzzle brake is only amplified further.

At the very least it might be worth it to make sure your muzzle brake, if you want to use one, doesn't make you blink or flinch even when fired from within an enclosure like you might find at a match. A good example of such an enclosure would be a doghouse, since it's a worst-case scenario that you might actually see (we shot out of one at the Gunwerks match last year).