Surgeon 591 Action

[Tony1320]

Has anyone with a Surgeon 591 action thats been cerakoted find you need to break them in before they run smooth?

My bolt is sticky on close

I have 234 rounds on the action and at least that many dry fires

 

[nexusfire]

Surgeon build? If not you may want to check your headspace.

 

[Tony1320]

No but it was built by reputable gunsmith

 

[g.ross]

Need a little more info than bolt sticky when closing ..
With or without a chambered round ?
Loaded mag in?
Cerakote sucks !!! Run the hell out of it !!

 

[Tony1320]

Need a little more info than bolt sticky when closing ..
With or without a chambered round ?
Loaded mag in?
Cerakote sucks !!! Run the hell out of it !!

Without a chambering a round

When shooting a stage I don't notice it, only when dry fire practicing

Mag in but no rounds in in it

 

[Edds]

At what point does it get sticky? Is it sticky for the full stroke or does it only get sticky when it is almost closed?

 

[g.ross]

I wonder if your mag lips are dragging or rubbing on the bolt . You may be feeling excessive cock on close. Look at the cocking piece on the back of the bolt as you are closing the bolt if it looks to be traveling backwards (toward you) your experiencing cock on close. Can feel kinda sticky since you are compressing the firing spring with the bolt lugs . This is common on all actions with pinned triggers since there are so many different trigger and cocking piece designs.

 

[jfk]

Cerakote can interfere with tolerances if done too heavy. I have to consider this when my Defiance action comes in. I'm considering having it done in DLC or whatever coating they recommend. Another option is to just Cerakote the exterior and plugging off any surfaces the bolt rides on. Cerakote has an Elite finish that's supposed to be thinner.

 

[Tony1320]

At what point does it get sticky? Is it sticky for the full stroke or does it only get sticky when it is almost closed?

At the top just after I start closing

 

[rijndael]

Out of curiosity, did they coat the back of the lugs?

 

[Tony1320]

I wonder if your mag lips are dragging or rubbing on the bolt . You may be feeling excessive cock on close. Look at the cocking piece on the back of the bolt as you are closing the bolt if it looks to be traveling backwards (toward you) your experiencing cock on close. Can feel kinda sticky since you are compressing the firing spring with the bolt lugs . This is common on all actions with pinned triggers since there are so many different trigger and cocking piece designs.

I just checked to see and it does appear to travel backwards as I close the bolt

Here's a video, I'm trying stay steady as best I can with my phone *I can't get the video to post here*

 

[Tony1320]

Out of curiosity, did they coat the back of the lugs?

Yea, the whole action and bolt was done

 

[Terry Cross]

What type of trigger is installed?
Could it be a trigger timing issue with the striker handing off to the trigger late in the cycle?

.

 

[g.ross]

Here you go !!!
Trigger timing!!

 

[g.ross]

Bet its a bix or timney

 

[Tony1320]

What type of trigger is installed?
Could it be a trigger timing issue with the striker handing off to the trigger late in the cycle?

.

It's a Jewell HVR trigger

Could be but not sure I've never experienced this kind of resistance

 

[Tony1320]

Here you go !!!
Trigger timing!!

I was thinking that at the start

I have a Borden as well so I know what a well timed action feels like but I've never heard of anyone complaining about a Surgeon with a Jewell

 

[g.ross]

Not normally and issue with the surgeon and jewels.I sent my surgeon out to be timed because I have a Borden also . Once you run a timed trigger it’s hard to go back.

 

[Tony1320]

Not normally and issue with the surgeon and jewels.I sent my surgeon out to be timed because I have a Borden also . Once you run a timed trigger it’s hard to go back.

I know it's not a Borden but maybe I'm just expecting too much

I did handle a Defiance at a match over the weekend and it had no resistance on close I could tell not sure what trigger. I would think the Surgeon should run similar to a Defiance that's why I wonder about the cerakote the Defiance was uncoated

 

[Edds]

You can strip the bolt and see if it is still hard to close.

 

[nexusfire]

I love it when defiance actions do this it's because of their wicked awesome tolerances but when it's a surgeon, "oh noes there must be a problem!". If it bothers you that bad take out the firing pin and see if it still does it. If so get some 20 dollar lapping compound and watch TV and work your bolt. My want to try a tiny amount of grease behind the lugs. And I mean a tiny amount.

 

[Tony1320]

I love it when defiance actions do this it's because of their wicked awesome tolerances but when it's a surgeon, "oh noes there must be a problem!". If it bothers you that bad take out the firing pin and see if it still does it. If so get some 20 dollar lapping compound and watch TV and work your bolt. My want to try a tiny amount of grease behind the lugs. And I mean a tiny amount.

The Defiance I handled on the weekend didn't do this I couldn't feel a resistance on close

I took the firing pin out and it's smooth as glass without the firing pin in

I do grease the back of the lugs

 

[Edds]

I love it when defiance actions do this it's because of their wicked awesome tolerances but when it's a surgeon, "oh noes there must be a problem!". If it bothers you that bad take out the firing pin and see if it still does it. If so get some 20 dollar lapping compound and watch TV and work your bolt. My want to try a tiny amount of grease behind the lugs. And I mean a tiny amount.

Maybe people react that way because a Surgeon is made with clearances to accommodate Cerakote and a Defiance isn't.

 

[Barney88PDC]

I say just use it and it will wear in. All my new rifles are no where near my worn in one's. After about a barrel or a trip to a dusty or abrasive match like Oklahoma New Mexico or sandy Florida they lap themselves in nicely.

 

[Tony1320]

I say just use it and it will wear in. All my new rifles are no where near my worn in one's. After about a barrel or a trip to a dusty or abrasive match like Oklahoma New Mexico or sandy Florida they lap themselves in nicely.

I plan to just feel uneasy about right now I guess

 

[Edds]

If the bolt closes easy with the trigger removed, it isn't going to "wear in". You need to take it to a Gunsmith and have it fixed.

 

[Tony1320]

If the bolt closes easy with the trigger removed, it isn't going to "wear in". You need to take it to a Gunsmith and have it fixed.

I didn't remove the trigger, I took the firing pin assembly out

What is a gunsmith going to fix other than sending it out to be timed?

My question was do they break in after use and Barney88PDC confirmed they do so I'm just gonna run it

 

[surgeon260]

I have three Surgeons, all Cerakoted (bolt and receiver). Two with Jewells, one with Huber. No issues whatsoever, all buttery smooth. The finish on the bolt lugs shows obvious signs of wear after a few hundred cycles, so there is obviously some level of break in that happens. But all of my Surgeons have been smooth from the get go. As was mentioned, I always grease the locking lug/recoil lug mating surface. I would recommend cycling a few hundred times and then re-evaluate.

 

[Edds]

I didn't remove the trigger, I took the firing pin assembly out

What is a gunsmith going to fix other than sending it out to be timed?

My question was do they break in after use and Barney88PDC confirmed they do so I'm just gonna run it

I meant to say firing pin instead of trigger. I suspect it will operate smoothly with the trigger removed too.

I don't know what they will do. Timing the trigger might be the fix, Terry Cross suggested that.

The information you were given about breaking in may not be correct. In this instance lapping in , breaking in, wearing in, might actually mean wearing out. But it is your rifle and you are the only one that has to be satisfied.

 

[Tony1320]

I have three Surgeons, all Cerakoted (bolt and receiver). Two with Jewells, one with Huber. No issues whatsoever, all buttery smooth. The finish on the bolt lugs shows obvious signs of wear after a few hundred cycles, so there is obviously some level of break in that happens. But all of my Surgeons have been smooth from the get go. As was mentioned, I always grease the locking lug/recoil lug mating surface. I would recommend cycling a few hundred times and then re-evaluate.

Do any of yours stick like in the video above?

 

[nexusfire]

Yours seems a little excessive.

 

[surgeon260]

Do any of yours stick like in the video above?

No sir, that hitch in the bolt throw is not present in any of my Surgeons. The only resistance I have ever felt upon closing the bolt on an empty chamber was an obvious side effect of newly Cerakoted parts, and it only happened as the lug surfaces engaged. I am talking very light resistance.

 

[Shawd43]

I also have a surgeon, (built by surgeon) with a low round count that feels sticky when cycling the bolt. Mine however takes more pressure to lift the knob after firing and when locking that round after chambering . After 300 rounds and over 1800 dry fires I imagine it would break in more quickly. It has gotten significantly more smooth but not exactly where I’d like it. It’s still enough pressure to disturb your position in a match. Have you found any solutions for yours yet?

 

[Tony1320]

I also have a surgeon, (built by surgeon) with a low round count that feels sticky when cycling the bolt. Mine however takes more pressure to lift the knob after firing and when locking that round after chambering . After 300 rounds and over 1800 dry fires I imagine it would break in more quickly. It has gotten significantly more smooth but not exactly where I’d like it. It’s still enough pressure to disturb your position in a match. Have you found any solutions for yours yet?

No I have not, a few hundred rounds and ton of dry firing later it's still sticky

 

[Tony1320]

After more rounds and dry firing I still find it doesn't close smooth. Can people who have a well used Surgeon action post a video of running the action slowly?

 

[AustinTom]

After more rounds and dry firing I still find it doesn't close smooth. Can people who have a well used Surgeon action post a video of running the action slowly?

Well used Surgeon with jewell trigger.

 

[Robert Gradous]

When the circus comes to town and the monkeys start dancing,,,,,, stay seated