Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

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CarolinaExPat1

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Minuteman
Sep 28, 2009
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#1
I am about to make a purchase on a new .308 stick and I want a bit of input. I am looking at either a Surgeon Scalpel .308 or a GA Precision (several options).

I am wanting a McM A5 Stock, a 22" Barrel w/Surefire Brake, and US Optics SN-3 T-PAL glass. Dead set on .308Win.

So, if anyone owns either of these two guns can you please post your ratings, opinions, advice, etc.

Target groupings requested. Also, can you state your setups...

Thanks in advance.
 
#2
Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

I was told about a week ago from Steven at Surgeon that they would not be taking on any new builds for awhile. They needed to get caught up on receivers. So looks like your going with GAP!
laugh.gif
 
#5
Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

Well, to be honest I've simply heard a lot of good about them. I've never shot either them but from what I hear, both companies produce a far superior rifle to what I've been exposed to. In my time in the USMC and with BW-Xe, I've shot (in .308/7.62 Nato)

-KAC M110
-USN Mk-11 (Basically the same as KAC M110 but USN/USMC has different classifications)
-M24
-M40A1
-M40A3
-McM Tac 308

I've shot others (in other calibers), but I want a new .308 rifle and these have caught my eye.

I'm looking for a .308, 22" BBL, Surefire FA762SS Suppressor, McM A5 Stock, and less than 1/2MOA accuracy to 1000 Yards. Most of my shooting will be between 300 and 700 yards but I want the capability, for honestly, longer than 1 click, although 1000yds will be the practical point target max effective. I'll be using 1/4 MOA (Leupold Mk.4) as it's more precise than the 1MRAD (BTW I hate the S&B scopes-easy but they don't teach the USMC S/S's like they used to) Hope that helps on the advice. Thanks again to all who post.
 
#7
Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

I've got both and could not ever say a bad word about either one.
You will not be disappointed! I will not post any other info, but if you'd like to talk to me, please send pm.
 
#8
Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

Let's see.....I might be qualified to share my experiences.

I've owned these:

Surgeon Action - APA Built - 243
Surgeon Action - GAP Built - 7mm wsm
700 Action - GAP Built - 308
Surgeon Action - LA Precision Built - 260 Rem
700 Action - LSR Built - 7mm wsm
Badger M2008 - Kind of self assembled - 6x47 Lapua
Badger M2008 - Again self assembled - 338 Norma Mag
700 Action - Misc Stuff - 223, 223AI, 338 win, 300 win, 300 wby

Now, what I still own:

Surgeon Action - Surgeon Built - 243
Surgeon Action - Surgeon Built - 243
Surgeon Action - Skunkworks Built - 308 (actually in progress)

And I want a Surgeon 223.

Now, what's all this mean? I was VERY happy with the GAPs, the APA shot like a house on fire, William Roscoe has great attention to detail too. The other stuff was marginal but I deserved that the way I put them together. In the end I really liked the Surgeon actions.....so, I figured who would be the best to put Surgeon actioned rifles together....Surgeon. I'd have liked to have Surgeon build the 308, but I'm to impatient (William R is backed up too) and have a lot of faith in Mike at Skunkworks after spending some time looking at his work and emailing with him.

So, if it comes down to your two choices and those only, I'd ask you which action you prefer. Both have pluses and minuses, if you want a Surgeon then I'd choose Surgeon. If you want a Remington or more of a Rem clone then go GAP and use their action. You won't go wrong with either.
 
#9
Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

I own a GAP and have a friend with a Surgeon. I'm similar to others in that I can't say anything bad about either. Both are very well made and both shoot extremely well.

I will say that I like the Surgeon DBM metal better than the Badger DBM that GAP uses. It's just a personal preference though, as both work equally well.
 
#12
Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

Preston has a hell of a setup and one hell of a product! went to his prague shop out in the middle of no where OK a couple years ago while out visiting family back in his neck of the woods and was blown away at the guns they make.

I shot a couple of surgeons and but havent owned any. And havent shot a GAP so I can only speak up for surgeons. the surgeons actions are innovative in that they have basically reinvented the remmy 700 action and managed to get rid of some parts without sacrificing function or accuracy.
 
#13
Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CarolinaExPat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Time isn't an issue and I only am going to make a purchase once I determine the best. Do you own either? </div></div>

Haha. Ya I own a few. Look at my past posts...... Or ask around.
 
#14
Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

Determining the "best" is going to be subjective and will come down to a personal opinion, sort of like what is best, a Ford or a Chevy.

They all have good components and will get the job done, now it comes down to what you like and what you want. I don't think anyone here can make up your mind for you OR tell you what the best really is.
 
#16
Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

I own and shoot both. My first precision rifle was built by Surgeon back in 2006 and was one of the first ones they put together. To this day it is still one of the most accurate rifles I've ever shot. I also own 6 rifles built by GAP and every one of them is a hammer.

Take my word for whats its worth, you wont go wrong with either outfit.
 
#17
Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

Hey.....I'm looking to buy a kick-ass Italian made high performance sportscar.....I can't decide between a Ferrari or the Lambo.....what do ya'll suggest.....?

Answer......you probably won't go wrong with either one......just like picking between a Surgeon or a GAP.......lol!
 
#19
Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

I own a GAP .308 .22" barrel in an McM A5, Surgeon DBM.
The most accurate gun I've ever owned.
I would not hesitate to have them build your rifle.
I shoot 175 SMK's, 43.7gr Varget. Easily Meets your SubMOA request to 1000y.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CarolinaExPat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Target groupings requested. Thanks in advance. </div></div>

500 yards, load development...
dy94jb.jpg


1000 yards
5b4ny9.jpg


Some Load Development Pics. It shoots everything well...
2vblezt.jpg

5zp739.jpg

35ira55.jpg
 
#20
Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jasonk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Let's see.....I might be qualified to share my experiences.

I've owned these:

Surgeon Action - APA Built - 243
Surgeon Action - GAP Built - 7mm wsm
700 Action - GAP Built - 308
Surgeon Action - LA Precision Built - 260 Rem
700 Action - LSR Built - 7mm wsm
Badger M2008 - Kind of self assembled - 6x47 Lapua
Badger M2008 - Again self assembled - 338 Norma Mag
700 Action - Misc Stuff - 223, 223AI, 338 win, 300 win, 300 wby

Now, what I still own:

Surgeon Action - Surgeon Built - 243
Surgeon Action - Surgeon Built - 243
Surgeon Action - Skunkworks Built - 308 (actually in progress)

And I want a Surgeon 223.

Now, what's all this mean? I was VERY happy with the GAPs, the APA shot like a house on fire, William Roscoe has great attention to detail too. The other stuff was marginal but I deserved that the way I put them together. In the end I really liked the Surgeon actions.....so, I figured who would be the best to put Surgeon actioned rifles together....Surgeon. I'd have liked to have Surgeon build the 308, but I'm to impatient (William R is backed up too) and have a lot of faith in Mike at Skunkworks after spending some time looking at his work and emailing with him.

So, if it comes down to your two choices and those only, I'd ask you which action you prefer. Both have pluses and minuses, if you want a Surgeon then I'd choose Surgeon. If you want a Remington or more of a Rem clone then go GAP and use their action. You won't go wrong with either.
</div></div>

what a gun whore
grin.gif


The Templar action ROCKS !! Jason, you need to try one too....
smile.gif
 
#21
Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

Never had a Surgeon rifle but I know Preston and the boys build a great rifle. Can't say anything bad about them. They are a great bunch of guys.

I do own 4 GAP rifles in .243, .308, 6.5 Creedmoor and 300WM and they shoot great. The .243, which was built off the GAP7000 action which is the predecessor to the Templar, won best group at the 2008 Idaho State Sniper Challenge which measured .250" outer edge to outer edge making it a .007" group. Don't have a pic of that but here's some 5 shot 100 yard groups I have a pics of
P1010018.jpg

P1010466.jpg

And shot this at Norcal that same year
norcal_tbrc08_09.jpg


My 6.5 Creedmoor, which is built off of a Templar action, is no slough. Here are a couple 100 yard groups when changing from one lot of ammo to another, 5 shots on left and 10 shots on the right
P7080622.jpg

Here's 10 shots at 300 yards
P1010017-3.jpg


The .308, built off my original Rem action from my 93' 700VS, shoots great also. 5 shots at 300 yards
PB120490.jpg

Here's the 100 yard group from when I was breaking the rifle in
Breakingroup.jpg


Here are some pics of the rifles
6.5 Creedmoor
P1010009-3.jpg

.308, I added the duct tape and non slip
wink.gif

P1010441.jpg

.243
P1010026-2.jpg
 
#22
Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

And the GAP 300WM, built off Rem 700.
P1060489.jpg

After paint job by Controlled Chaos Arms
P4140555.jpg
 
#24
Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

I prefer the Surgeon to any action I have or have had. I just like the feel of the action....nothing quantitative there. I have had very accurate rifles built on other stuff but the most accurate rifle I have ever owned is based on a Surgeon 591 (not built by Surgeon). I have 2 Surgeons now...one Badger BM and one Surgeon BM. I also prefer the Surgeon BM/magazine.

As others have said either builder is going to be a top notch rifle. If you prefer the Surgeon action and they are not taking build orders just have a reputable gunsmith build it.
 
#25
Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

Get Terry Cross to build you one with the Surgeon 591 action in one of his sentinel stocks. If you don't like it, I'll buy it from you. Getting back to your question, I have owned quite a few and they are all more accurate than me but I am partial to the 591 action.
 
#30
Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PGS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Laffin!! It's a great sport for an Excessive Compulsive!! </div></div>

They make pills for that Pat!! LOL!!!
 
#32
Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

I have a GAP Hosptialler. Surgeon action .308, 24" Bartien 1:11.25 barrel. With a 3.8X22X58 USO SN-3. It is an absolute hammer.I compete F-TR class with it out to 1K.
I am at nearly 2000 rnds through it and it is better than ever.
YMMV-Rob
 
#33
Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

I have owned a GAP crusader and now have a GAP M40A3. They both are great shooters. If you like the surgeon action, you might want to look into the GAP templer action(great action and may save you some money also)
 
#34
Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

I am glad that at least you settled on an optic; I don't think I can endure another "best" thread! I actually enjoyed the part about "Less then 1/2 moa accuracy out to 1000 yds"!
 
#35
Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: A10XRIFLE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We build lots of rifles on the Surgeon Action. Preston is great to work with. We have our own action the Templar which Glen Harrison makes for us. We use Surgeon Actions and Remington 700 actions. </div></div>

George, you might get banned for being politically correct.
smile.gif


Buy one of each. I'm sure you'll be happy with both.
 
#36
Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

GAP Crusader 308win, NF NXS 5.5-22x56, low ultralight 1" rings.

Berger 190gr VLD, Varget 40gr, prior fired Federal cases and sometimes Lapua, CCI BR2 primers.

Less than 1/2 MOA consistently to 1/4 MOA with bipod and rear bag from seated or prone.

What amazed me is that when I examine my fired cases and look at the primer, every one looks almost exactly identical...dead center with same straight on indentation and depth. I compared cases fired from GAP vs. my other rifles and there is no comparison in the consistency.
 
#37
Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

owned a 591 switch barrel 243/308, actions are smooth as butter, lock up like a bank vault and very accurate, you cannot go wrong with a surgeon, I mean after all, there made in Oklahoma by okies
 
#38
Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

I vote Gap built off a Surgeon 591. I have not however owned a surgeon built scalpel etc, but I am very happy with my gaps.

One is a trued Rem700 action and the other is the 591. Buttery smooth and both shoot my ass into the ground. Both are consistently half a minute and better when I beat the weather.

Basically, if it's not a great group I can totally blame the driver.

You will be happy either way imho. I know that is probably not very helpful, but it should at least be comforting since you really can't screw up through your choosing lol.

 
#39
Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

Carolina, I have 5 or six GAP's , 2 Scalpel's and 5 Accuracy International AW's and AWP's all of which are in .308. For the money its the best caliber imho. I can take a picture with them like pretty maids in a row. They all shoot well, depending on your ergonomics you have to figure which one you like the best. Having these and some in 300 and 338 LM I find myself behind the 591/700 A5 more often than not. I run 700's with badger 20 moa bases, and all of them 34 mm rings and S&B 3X12X50 and 4X16X42 PM II's. Some are DBM but all are Badger or Surgeon bottom metal. One of my GAP's is a 7000 action, so I have a lot to compare. I am not the best shooter on this board by a long shot but I will tell you what I have found.
Preston can built you a great rifle, it may take longer or you may find one along the way that fit's the bill for you. Either way if you go A5 get the adjustable cheek, you won't have to screw with a pack and riser pads if you run a 34 / 35 mm optic, easier to breakdown and clean, bore sight, run night optic, etc and don't loose time resetting. Go with adjustable length of pull. If you go DBM go for the Surgeon, it rattles lest and fits better and is far more protected. Go with double sling swivels up front and you can use Seekins rail mounts for more bipod options, through a flush cup in if that floats your boat. If you don't care about a particular color of stock (ie GAP camo), I got the green marble, go with Preston. All of the triggers are just as good as the others. They each can do a 700 job and have a wider pad than the jewel which you may like better depending on your tastes.

If you go with George, you may have a few more options available at the time of your build, could go with either action. If your going to buy only one rifle, go with the 591 and be done with it or try the Templar. The Surgeon is more well known at the moment if you have resale considerations.(which don't seem likely) You can't go wrong with the GAP, their service, I got two barrels with one of them, lots of options, bolt release, brake, can adapter etc. and if you ever want to change or add anything GAP may be quicker on the draw getting to you and addressing whatever it maybe that you would want. I do prefer the Badger bolt handle for my size hands, you may want to test that out.

I'm just north of you so if you ever want to see them side by side and shoot either or both come on.....
 
#40
Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

Both company's build excellent rifles. I had the chance to visit with George and crew at GAP this summer. While there I was given the opportunity to handle complete rifles built on both Surgeon actions as well as the Templar action GAP uses. I ended up going with the Templar action because of the way it felt and cycled. There was nothing wrong with the Surgeon action but the Templar just felt more comfortable (personal preference). I chose GAP to do the build based on the phone conversations I had with George and crew as well as the outstanding customer service when I stopped in for the visit.
 
#42
Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

You want a recommended builder? There are to many great gunsmith's to choose from. I could list 12 off the top of my head that are going to build you a rifle that will shoot better than anything you've problably ever hand your hands on.

You'll get a lot of certain recommendation's in here about certain companie's etc., but you can go to a different website and their will be "their" popular builder. That's the nature of the beast. The best thing you can do is take your time, research and make some phone calls.

Slow is sooth and smooth is fast.
Good luck,
MS
 
#43
Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Limbic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Templar is also a good bit lighter if I'm not mistaken. </div></div>

I think there is over a pound difference between the two with the Templar action being the lighter.
 
#44
Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MikeinMO</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hi all, New member here.

I have a Surgeon 591 short action up at Krieger's now, getting fitted with a #10 MTU contour bbl, finished at 26 inches and with a 12 twist in 308 Win, (7.62 NATO). Intended ammo is FGGM 168 grain or equivalent. I have a Manners T5A on order that will cradle the bidness elements of this, and a Jewell trigger that will get pinned to it when it comes home ready to go.

Would like any and all ideas for a finish, and for Optics. I'm looking for a camo pattern stencil, and also trying to make a final decision on optics. Premier Heritage is the current front runner, but little field eval. is available since this scope is new.

Tell me what ya think! And shootemup whenever / wherever you can.
</div></div>

Maybe you should ask this in your own thread instead of hijacking this one.....
 
#45
Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Maybe you should ask this in your own thread instead of hijacking this one..... </div></div>

My sincere apologies. I forgot how touchy internet people can be.

Please disregard the above.
 
#46
Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MikeinMO</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Maybe you should ask this in your own thread instead of hijacking this one..... </div></div>

My sincere apologies. I forgot how touchy internet people can be.

Please disregard the above. </div></div>

And you're on the internet too genius...... good job. Try again, stay on track.
 
#48
Re: Surgeon Rifles vs. GA Precision, Only Owners

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MikeinMO</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Maybe you should ask this in your own thread instead of hijacking this one..... </div></div>

My sincere apologies. I forgot how touchy internet people can be.

Please disregard the above. </div></div>

And you're on the internet too genius...... good job. Try again, stay on track. </div></div>

Advice taken.

Now I'll offer some. Change your sig line to "God Bess our Warriors". Marines, Sailors and Airmen, along with Guard and Coasties deserve love too. Check the DOD news release website. It ain't just soldiers who are giving all.

Love you too.
 
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