Swarovski Rangefinding Binoculars

[Cardboard Assassin]

I've got an itch to pick up some binoculars and as Swarovski are now offering a range finding option I could kill two birds with one stone (I have a rangefinder but it is kinda crappy).

Looks like the EL range with build in rangefinder are offered in 8X & 10X - I would be looking at the 10X. I'm generally a magnification junkie and was leaning towards the 15X SLCs Swarovski offer but from the research I have done it seems that 10X is the sweet spot for holding unsupported and not noticing excessive shake (12X seems Ok too but Swarovski dont offer a 12X option with rangefinder).

Has anyone used these? It is these I am interested in - link

I dont doubt the glass will be impressive (I have a Swarovski ATX spotter so I know what to expect there) but how good is the rangefinder? It ranges out to 2200 yards (lots for the distances / calibers I shoot). I also noticed it has built in ballistics - is this all built into the binoculars (ie are the adjustment / click values displayed in the HUD on the binoculars) or does it interface with an app to get the information?

Are there any other binos I should be looking at?

 

[FN15]

I liked the ELs, but the cost sent me to the SLCs. I don't regret it one bit.

 

[Cardboard Assassin]

I liked the ELs, but the cost sent me to the SLCs. I don't regret it one bit.

I cant find SLCs with a built in rangefinder, although I kinda remember seeing some (not sure if they did offer them or if I imagined that)

 

[Cardboard Assassin]

I just stumbled across this video and its pretty detailed



Still curious to hear real word feedback on how well the rangefinder works.

 

[Birddog6424]

I cant speak to the Swarovski, but I have the Steiner M1050r LRF. These have a mil reticle and range finder,, no ballistic software. They have have the same Twilight Factor and light transmission percentage as the EL, and they are incredibly nice to have.

If the Swarovski is similar, they will pop targets over 2k, but the real usability is more in the 1600 to 1800 range. You need a good sized flat target to get a reading once you really start pushing them out.

For hunting they will give me a reading on anything in range. I'm sure those Swaro's will treat you great.

 

[Glassaholic]

If the Swaro EL Range offered AB ballistics inside they'd be of more interest, if they offered BT connectivity to a Kestrel they'd be of more interest but in lieu of these issues I am staying away for the time being - only 3 custom profiles can be uploaded at a time. Leica's have been offering BT to Kestrel for a while now and now offer AB internally as well, not sure why Swarovski cannot... same with Zeiss - no AB/Kestrel... no go. Keep in mind this is just personal preference, I am sure Swaro's ballistic calculator will get the job done and would be curious if anyone has compared to AB solutions. I've had the Leica HD-B's and the Zeiss Victory RF 10x42 for a short while, glass was impressive, but wasn't like the Swaro EL (not range) and decided to hold off in lieu of the AB/Kestrel issue and see what else would come out to market.

I could not find beam divergence values for the new Swaro EL Range TA, but the new Leica Geovid Pro has the best divergence I've seen to date from the Euro mfr's at 1.2 x 0.5 mRad, that being said the beam divergence of the "older" EL range was not bad at 1.5 × 0.5 mrad so figure the "new" EL Range TA should at least be that good (generally the smaller values the better).

Euro has a good write up on the older unit: https://www.eurooptic.com/pdf/swarovski-el-range-training-document.pdf

According to the above comparison, the Swaro has considerably brighter lens systems in both barrels than Leica and Zeiss but keep in mind this is an older comp and compares to the "older" Swaro, Zeiss and Leica. Not sure if any of them have changed their system since...

Light Transmission: 91% in each barrel! This is a considerable improvement over the competition and a major selling feature! It was a great challenge and tremendous achievement for SWAROVSKI OPTIK engineers to be able to obtain 91% light transmission with the aiming dot and distance readings in the optical system.
By comparison:
A Zeiss Victory RF (8/10x45) yields light transmissions of 85% on the left barrel and 74% on the right barrel.
A Leica Geovid (8/10x42) yields light transmissions of 77% on the left barrel and 79% on the right barrel.

 

[Cardboard Assassin]

I cant speak to the Swarovski, but I have the Steiner M1050r LRF. These have a mil reticle and range finder,, no ballistic software. They have have the same Twilight Factor and light transmission percentage as the EL, and they are incredibly nice to have.

If the Swarovski is similar, they will pop targets over 2k, but the real usability is more in the 1600 to 1800 range. You need a good sized flat target to get a reading once you really start pushing them out.

For hunting they will give me a reading on anything in range. I'm sure those Swaro's will treat you great.

Thanks for the info.

 

[Cardboard Assassin]

If the Swaro EL Range offered AB ballistics inside they'd be of more interest, if they offered BT connectivity to a Kestrel they'd be of more interest but in lieu of these issues I am staying away for the time being - only 3 custom profiles can be uploaded at a time. Leica's have been offering BT to Kestrel for a while now and now offer AB internally as well, not sure why Swarovski cannot... same with Zeiss - no AB/Kestrel... no go. Keep in mind this is just personal preference, I am sure Swaro's ballistic calculator will get the job done and would be curious if anyone has compared to AB solutions. I've had the Leica HD-B's and the Zeiss Victory RF 10x42 for a short while, glass was impressive, but wasn't like the Swaro EL (not range) and decided to hold off in lieu of the AB/Kestrel issue and see what else would come out to market.

I could not find beam divergence values for the new Swaro EL Range TA, but the new Leica Geovid Pro has the best divergence I've seen to date from the Euro mfr's at 1.2 x 0.5 mRad, that being said the beam divergence of the "older" EL range was not bad at 1.5 × 0.5 mrad so figure the "new" EL Range TA should at least be that good (generally the smaller values the better).

Euro has a good write up on the older unit: https://www.eurooptic.com/pdf/swarovski-el-range-training-document.pdf

According to the above comparison, the Swaro has considerably brighter lens systems in both barrels than Leica and Zeiss but keep in mind this is an older comp and compares to the "older" Swaro, Zeiss and Leica. Not sure if any of them have changed their system since...

Hmmm, yep, you're not wrong. 3 Ballistic profiles does seem kinda basic.

A Kestrel is something else I will pick up at some point (and something I dont know a lot about at this point), I know the Swaros can connect to a phone app via bluetooth and a Kestrel can connect to a phone app via bluetooth so is the issue that these two devices cant communicate to each other (either directly or via the app)?

From what I understand Swarovski glass is some of the best there is, are there any other brands in the same league (I know you mention Swarovski outshines Leica & Zeiss a little)?

 

[Glassaholic]

Hmmm, yep, you're not wrong. 3 Ballistic profiles does seem kinda basic.

Biggest limitation I feel.

A Kestrel is something else I will pick up at some point (and something I dont know a lot about at this point), I know the Swaros can connect to a phone app via bluetooth and a Kestrel can connect to a phone app via bluetooth so is the issue that these two devices cant communicate to each other (either directly or via the app)?

Correct, they cannot communicate with each other. With Leica you can connect the LRF to Kestrel directly which means solutions can go back and forth, with Kestrel you also have the advantage of wind (though some would argue with long range that wind at the rifle could be very different than wind at the target and everywhere in between, but the Kestrel at least gives you something until you can "read" wind at distance). Also, if you get a full 5700 Elite you have numerous different profiles to choose from, not just three.

From what I understand Swarovski glass is some of the best there is, are there any other brands in the same league (I know you mention Swarovski outshines Leica & Zeiss a little)?

For binoculars I think there is a good argument to be made here. There is something magical about looking through a set of EL bino's, I have yet to see the NL Pure, but I hear they're even better with their wider FOV and "better" glass. Some people do not like flat field technology and say panning with the binos is not a pleasant experience, Swaro appears to have toned that down some in the NL Pure so it's not so obvious. I had the Zeiss Victory RF 10x42 and was pleased with the glass but was not wowed like I was with Swaro EL. Leica was even a little less than Zeiss experience, still really nice but not the "wow" I was hoping for. Part of the problem when you experience really good glass that is pleasing to your eyes and looking through something that is not up to par just leaves you wanting more. It would appear the new Leica Geovid Pro may use a new formula that improves user experience so I'm curious about those. Also, I should mentioned the previous Swaro Range EL many considered were NOT up to par with the EL line of straight binos, while they had the EL designation Swaro did not put all the same tech as they did their standard EL's as I understand, but the new EL Range TA appears to have remedied those issues.

The key phrase above is "to my eyes", everybody is different and slight nuances to glass and their rendering is pleasing to some and not to others, you like blondes and I like brunette's - does that make either of us wrong? Not at all, it is a subjective experience based on personal preference, so in the end it would be best if you could get ahold of different sets and see for yourself.

 

[Cardboard Assassin]

Biggest limitation I feel.

Correct, they cannot communicate with each other. With Leica you can connect the LRF to Kestrel directly which means solutions can go back and forth, with Kestrel you also have the advantage of wind (though some would argue with long range that wind at the rifle could be very different than wind at the target and everywhere in between, but the Kestrel at least gives you something until you can "read" wind at distance). Also, if you get a full 5700 Elite you have numerous different profiles to choose from, not just three.

For binoculars I think there is a good argument to be made here. There is something magical about looking through a set of EL bino's, I have yet to see the NL Pure, but I hear they're even better with their wider FOV and "better" glass. Some people do not like flat field technology and say panning with the binos is not a pleasant experience, Swaro appears to have toned that down some in the NL Pure so it's not so obvious. I had the Zeiss Victory RF 10x42 and was pleased with the glass but was not wowed like I was with Swaro EL. Leica was even a little less than Zeiss experience, still really nice but not the "wow" I was hoping for. Part of the problem when you experience really good glass that is pleasing to your eyes and looking through something that is not up to par just leaves you wanting more. It would appear the new Leica Geovid Pro may use a new formula that improves user experience so I'm curious about those. Also, I should mentioned the previous Swaro Range EL many considered were NOT up to par with the EL line of straight binos, while they had the EL designation Swaro did not put all the same tech as they did their standard EL's as I understand, but the new EL Range TA appears to have remedied those issues.

The key phrase above is "to my eyes", everybody is different and slight nuances to glass and their rendering is pleasing to some and not to others, you like blondes and I like brunette's - does that make either of us wrong? Not at all, it is a subjective experience based on personal preference, so in the end it would be best if you could get ahold of different sets and see for yourself.

I've been looking at Leica's since you mentioned them and the new Geovid Pro seems to offer a lot in a single package.

From a technical perspective (ie LRF / AB capabilities etc) it blows the Swaro's etc out of the water.

I don't doubt that the glass in the Swaro's is the pinnacle (I almost feel like its an advantage for me that I haven't looked through some Swaro bino's before looking through the Leica's) but overall I feel the Leica's offer more so I might hold off until they become available / some real reviews come along.

I plan to use these for PRS etc and it sounds like they would be pretty slick for that once the AB software is unlocked / upgraded.

 

[gr8fuldoug]

I've been looking at Leica's since you mentioned them and the new Geovid Pro seems to offer a lot in a single package.

From a technical perspective (ie LRF / AB capabilities etc) it blows the Swaro's etc out of the water.

I don't doubt that the glass in the Swaro's is the pinnacle (I almost feel like its an advantage for me that I haven't looked through some Swaro bino's before looking through the Leica's) but overall I feel the Leica's offer more so I might hold off until they become available / some real reviews come along.

I plan to use these for PRS etc and it sounds like they would be pretty slick for that once the AB software is unlocked / upgraded.

Optically the Swarovski is great, however, if the 32mm objective works for you it now seems that the Leica is the most advanced out there

 

[Burdy]

Leica 8x32 LRFs excite me the most

 

[tlsmith22]

I had some of the Geovids for all the reasons above, it ranged great but I never could get the glass to look as good as my SLCs. I sold them and went back to SLCs and a separate rangefinder. I too have thought abt trying the Swaro rangefinding binos.

 

[DetroitRearView]

I have owned the top tiers of Leica, Zeiss and Swarovski as well as their mid tier goods, binos, RF’s and Spotters, they are all excellent but I prefer Swaro.

I have for the last several years kept my binos separate from the RF’s because I love great glass for hunting. Amazing what I can locate with my NLPure 12x50 and BTX85.

I am currently waiting for the best Mono RF AB full imbedded suite I can get with great glass.

I just just haven’t decided how much I want to spend.

 

[Cardboard Assassin]

Optically the Swarovski is great, however, if the 32mm objective works for you it now seems that the Leica is the most advanced out there

I'm sure the Swarovskis are the standard all others get measured by and I really do wonder if I buy anything else with lesser glass (no matter how close they are or if they have more features beyond the glass) if I will regret it.

I'm still finding my feet with optics, so is the issue with the 32mm objective that it may not gather enough light / seem dark?

I dont hunt (which seems to be when folks struggle with such things at dawn / dusk) but who knows what the future holds, for now these would be more for general use and PRS (ranging distances to get data to make adjustments / and observing conditions & other shooters on stages).

Beyond the glass the features of the Leica seem pretty good, from what I can tell the rangefinder is quality, has the capability to generate / show click adjustments while ranging (guessing this is via the AB software and from what I have read this may need an unlock upgrade for full functionality) and can even measure weather conditions (not sure about this part but think I read somewhere it uses Weatherflow).

Interesting product for sure and hopefully this drives the rest of the market in this direction. Seems like a no brainer to have a single device with all this capability.

 

[Cardboard Assassin]

I have owned the top tiers of Leica, Zeiss and Swarovski as well as their mid tier goods, binos, RF’s and Spotters, they are all excellent but I prefer Swaro.

I have for the last several years kept my binos separate from the RF’s because I love great glass for hunting. Amazing what I can locate with my NLPure 12x50 and BTX85.

I am currently waiting for the best Mono RF AB full imbedded suite I can get with great glass.

I just just haven’t decided how much I want to spend.

So is the NL Pure range considered the best offering from Swarovski?

I am a magnification junkie and wonder if 10X is enough but from the research I have done it seems that 10X (some say 12X) is kinda the sweet spot for holding the binoculars unsupported without noticing a lot of shake (supposedly Swarovski offers a brace / 3rd contact point with the head for its products that helps a lot with this).

Before I started looking I figured 18X would be the best fit for me but obviously any shake would be more noticeable and the field of view is a lot less than the 10X / 12X.

 

[Glassaholic]

So is the NL Pure range considered the best offering from Swarovski?

Yes

I am a magnification junkie and wonder if 10X is enough but from the research I have done it seems that 10X (some say 12X) is kinda the sweet spot for holding the binoculars unsupported without noticing a lot of shake (supposedly Swarovski offers a brace / 3rd contact point with the head for its products that helps a lot with this).

Unfortunately they do not make a 12x LRF bino so you're stuck with 10x at top. There are a lot of factors that will determine shake, your age and condition will be part of this - essentially how steady can you hold anything. 12x binos tend to be "heavy" as well which contributes to more shake. I'd really like to try a set of NL Pure 12x with headbrace and see if my 50ish year old hands can hold them steady enough to make them a field option.

Before I started looking I figured 18X would be the best fit for me but obviously any shake would be more noticeable and the field of view is a lot less than the 10X / 12X.

12x and higher is recommended to mount to tripod. Even 10x and 8x look "better" when using a tripod, question is how comfortable is it for you.

 

[Cardboard Assassin]

Yes

Unfortunately they do not make a 12x LRF bino so you're stuck with 10x at top. There are a lot of factors that will determine shake, your age and condition will be part of this - essentially how steady can you hold anything. 12x binos tend to be "heavy" as well which contributes to more shake. I'd really like to try a set of NL Pure 12x with headbrace and see if my 50ish year old hands can hold them steady enough to make them a field option.

12x and higher is recommended to mount to tripod. Even 10x and 8x look "better" when using a tripod, question is how comfortable is it for you.

Good info and aligns with what I have researched to date. If I was going with the Swarovski I would definitely get the head brace (bound to help with shake).

Big question for me is what magnification, if 10X isn't enough that rules out the new Leica's (which seem to tick a LOT of boxes).

What magnification do most use for PRS type usage?

 

[DetroitRearView]

The EL Range does not have the coatings of the NL Pure series and although the glass is excellent it is not on par with the NL’s.

The 12’s are phenomenal. Many have purchased the 10’s only to sell and buy the 12’s. I also have a tremor (almost 70 years old) and the 12’s are fine handheld with the FRP. Amazing FOV and clarity.

My guide in Alaska this year was so impressed with my 12’s vs his SLC 15x56’s he said he was going to buy some after season; so I tipped him with mine.

He was very pleased and I of course bought another set of 12’s when I got home.

I like the EL’s and have owned 8/10/12 in EL’s as well as the SLC’s 7/8/10/15’s but the NL’s are definitely a class above all previous Swaro’s.

All that being said, if you are looking at PRS a combo binocular range finder unit instead of a separate RF is very advantageous;

1) locating and ranging the target is much more efficient
2) lighting conditions are not quite as critical (although deep shade can be an issue)

One reason the glass on the Geovids rival the EL Range is because the laser is received through the glass in the hinge are and Leica can concentrate full coatings on their objectives; whereas Swarovski sends and receives from the objective and have to compromise coatings in order to achieve a balance between ranging ability and viewing quality.

If I were in your position I would hold off and see how the Leica Pro 10x32’s pan out with the full AB suite imbedded.

 

[Glassaholic]

The 12’s are phenomenal. Many have purchased the 10’s only to sell and buy the 12’s. I also have a tremor (almost 70 years old) and the 12’s are fine handheld with the FRP. Amazing FOV and clarity.

This is very encouraging, I forgot to mention the FOV in the NL’s is enormous. I wonder if the wide FOV doesn’t help cause our brains to interpret the image as being more stable. The 12x42’s have FOV that gets close to some competitors 10x.

My guide in Alaska this year was so impressed with my 12’s vs his SLC 15x56’s he said he was going to buy some after season; so I tipped him with mine.

This is exactly what I was hoping for, that a set of hand holdable 12x42 could rival the experience of the 15x56 (low light not included). I will still use a tripod when possible but in a pinch would like to use handheld. 15x56 I just don’t see as being able to do that at least not for long.

 

[Cardboard Assassin]

The EL Range does not have the coatings of the NL Pure series and although the glass is excellent it is not on par with the NL’s.

The 12’s are phenomenal. Many have purchased the 10’s only to sell and buy the 12’s. I also have a tremor (almost 70 years old) and the 12’s are fine handheld with the FRP. Amazing FOV and clarity.

My guide in Alaska this year was so impressed with my 12’s vs his SLC 15x56’s he said he was going to buy some after season; so I tipped him with mine.

He was very pleased and I of course bought another set of 12’s when I got home.

I like the EL’s and have owned 8/10/12 in EL’s as well as the SLC’s 7/8/10/15’s but the NL’s are definitely a class above all previous Swaro’s.

All that being said, if you are looking at PRS a combo binocular range finder unit instead of a separate RF is very advantageous;

1) locating and ranging the target is much more efficient
2) lighting conditions are not quite as critical (although deep shade can be an issue)

One reason the glass on the Geovids rival the EL Range is because the laser is received through the glass in the hinge are and Leica can concentrate full coatings on their objectives; whereas Swarovski sends and receives from the objective and have to compromise coatings in order to achieve a balance between ranging ability and viewing quality.

If I were in your position I would hold off and see how the Leica Pro 10x32’s pan out with the full AB suite imbedded.

Thank you for the detailed explanation, some great insight there.

It sure sounds like Swarovski (specifically the NL Pure range) are a cut above, but the Leica Pro feels like the best all around package.

 

[Glassaholic]

Thank you for the detailed explanation, some great insight there.

It sure sounds like Swarovski (specifically the NL Pure range) are a cut above, but the Leica Pro feels like the best all around package.

If you are wanting to connect to Kestrel and you prefer to have AB as your ballistic solver, then it is hard to beat the Leica. Yes, the Sig probably has the best in bino LRF unit for under $3k but for the distances you plan to shoot is the "better" LRF unit going to give you any advantage over the "better" glass used in the Leica. For those that don't really care about Kestrel and AB then the Swaro EL Range TA may be the best choice, I had the Zeiss Victory RF (new ones) but they didn't wow me as much as I'd hoped.

Right now I'm trying to figure out whether my current Leica 2800.com and bino (non-LRF) combo are good enough, or if the new Leica Geovid Pro 8x32 would be a beneficial upgrade. If I keep the 2800.com/bino then for the price of the Geovid Pro I am close to the price of the NL Pure 12x42. I'll await the release of the 8x32 pro's and see what some reputable reviewers have to say as I do not have to make a decision now. Being "patient" when shiny new objects hit the market is a virtue I struggle with

 

[Ckleeves]

I personally like keeping my RF separate from my binos, just because RF technology is moving so fast that every couple years I’m going to want a new RF, whereas a pair of Swaro or Leica binos will last a very long time before there is really a good reason to step up.

In 15 years a set of NL’s will still be incredible glass, but I’ll wager a guess that the RF version will be pretty outdated and just a heavier pair of binos without great resale value. Just something to think about.

 

[Glassaholic]

I personally like keeping my RF separate from my binos, just because RF technology is moving so fast that every couple years I’m going to want a new RF, whereas a pair of Swaro or Leica binos will last a very long time before there is really a good reason to step up.

In 15 years a set of NL’s will still be incredible glass, but I’ll wager a guess that the RF version will be pretty outdated and just a heavier pair of binos without great resale value. Just something to think about.

You are absolutely spot on and I just wrote something similar in the Vortex NGSW thread, this is another reason why having the 2800.com at 1/3 the price of the Geovid's was a choice I took several years ago. Every two to three years we'll see advancements in LRF technology and new models will come out, older models prices will be reduced and used prices will drop, it is just the name of the game now. But you're right, incredible glass will always be incredible glass. Or, if a unit checks all your boxes today then why not get the best tool and use it until it dies, so what in 5 years a unit can double the distance in half the time - if what you buy today gets you everything you need then you don't need to be chasing new tech all the time and be content that what you have now works just fine. (Hmmm, I think there is a lesson for me somewhere in there, haha)

 

[Cardboard Assassin]

If you are wanting to connect to Kestrel and you prefer to have AB as your ballistic solver, then it is hard to beat the Leica. Yes, the Sig probably has the best in bino LRF unit for under $3k but for the distances you plan to shoot is the "better" LRF unit going to give you any advantage over the "better" glass used in the Leica. For those that don't really care about Kestrel and AB then the Swaro EL Range TA may be the best choice, I had the Zeiss Victory RF (new ones) but they didn't wow me as much as I'd hoped.

Right now I'm trying to figure out whether my current Leica 2800.com and bino (non-LRF) combo are good enough, or if the new Leica Geovid Pro 8x32 would be a beneficial upgrade. If I keep the 2800.com/bino then for the price of the Geovid Pro I am close to the price of the NL Pure 12x42. I'll await the release of the 8x32 pro's and see what some reputable reviewers have to say as I do not have to make a decision now. Being "patient" when shiny new objects hit the market is a virtue I struggle with

After being burned as an early adopter many times I have learned my lesson and now appreciate the benefits of being patient.

Strangely I noticed the SIGs (10K) recently and have looked at them a little. Sounds like they are finally getting to market after being held up for quite a while. Their range finding numbers are very impressive but while it is a nice to have I don't necessarily need that kind of range with the type of shooting I do / ranges that are available to me. Many have commented on the SIG data interface and how easy to use it is so it sounds impressive. From what I have read folks seem confident the glass will be decent on these but I still imagine Leica or Swaro will be a cut above and I want good glass quality.

I dont have a Kestrel but I have played with the idea of getting one, sounds like the Leica is good to go (I would unlock / upgrade the AB for sure). Probably too early to say but does the Weatheflow offering compete with the Kestrel and will it be compatible with the Leica's?

 

[Cardboard Assassin]

I personally like keeping my RF separate from my binos, just because RF technology is moving so fast that every couple years I’m going to want a new RF, whereas a pair of Swaro or Leica binos will last a very long time before there is really a good reason to step up.

In 15 years a set of NL’s will still be incredible glass, but I’ll wager a guess that the RF version will be pretty outdated and just a heavier pair of binos without great resale value. Just something to think about.

Yep, high quality bino's sure have their place, from what I have read / heard, if I were to go this route I would pick up NL Pure's in either 10X or 12X.

I'm sure a pair of these would last me a long time.

 

[CIB2007]

I need someone to buy the new EL 10 TA and tell us how they are. I sold my 3500s and sig is 2 weeks away from me cancelling my order for the 10k that will never show up.

 

[kriller134]

I need someone to buy the new EL 10 TA and tell us how they are. I sold my 3500s and sig is 2 weeks away from me cancelling my order for the 10k that will never show up.

My buddy has them. They’re very nice. We did a side by side comparison with his 12x pures and the EL popped more for both of us if that makes any sense. The image quality is brighter on the EL. I wish I could explain it better, but I’m an inarticulate dumbass. Safe to say he’s planning on selling the pures.

 

[verdugo60]

I looked through the Swaro EL TA’s, the Zeiss RF and the the Leica 3200.coms today. All 10x42’s. Hard to compare in a Cabelas under fake lighting. Tough too because the diopters weren’t really set to my eyes being display models. That being said, I was impressed with all three, but the Zeiss seemed very forgiving to my eyes.

The SWARO battery was likely dying because the display was really dim. I have heard the RF in the Swaro isn’t as powerful as either of the other two, it doesn’t have ballistics, and the display even at full battery has been rumored to not be very bright in sunny conditions. Of those three the Swaro’s generally are said to have the best optics but the other two aren’t very far behind in that department.

My dad ended up snagging the Leica 3200.coms.

We set those up on a tripod in my neighborhood and I was very impressed with the optical quality. The rangefinder seemed pretty nice too, easily was ranging a wide steel telephone pole at 1300 yards in grey, misty, overcast conditions. Those using them in the field have reported the RF in the Leicas to be very good, probably the best in consumer grade civilian binos.

The Leica app/interface and menu leave a lot to be desired. That’s supposedly improving over the next few months.

As I said in the other thread I started, I’m holding out for three 10x32 Leica PRO’s. If I didn’t do comps where an onboard RF and ballistics in the bino weren’t as needed I’d be tempted to get just primo 10 or 12x42’s as suggested and run a separate LRF. Send like the laser tech is outpacing the Optical tech at a much higher rate.

 

[MtnPlinko]

If the Swaro EL Range offered AB ballistics inside they'd be of more interest, if they offered BT connectivity to a Kestrel they'd be of more interest but in lieu of these issues I am staying away for the time being - only 3 custom profiles can be uploaded at a time. Leica's have been offering BT to Kestrel for a while now and now offer AB internally as well, not sure why Swarovski cannot... same with Zeiss - no AB/Kestrel... no go. Keep in mind this is just personal preference, I am sure Swaro's ballistic calculator will get the job done and would be curious if anyone has compared to AB solutions. I've had the Leica HD-B's and the Zeiss Victory RF 10x42 for a short while, glass was impressive, but wasn't like the Swaro EL (not range) and decided to hold off in lieu of the AB/Kestrel issue and see what else would come out to market.

I could not find beam divergence values for the new Swaro EL Range TA, but the new Leica Geovid Pro has the best divergence I've seen to date from the Euro mfr's at 1.2 x 0.5 mRad, that being said the beam divergence of the "older" EL range was not bad at 1.5 × 0.5 mrad so figure the "new" EL Range TA should at least be that good (generally the smaller values the better).

Euro has a good write up on the older unit: https://www.eurooptic.com/pdf/swarovski-el-range-training-document.pdf

According to the above comparison, the Swaro has considerably brighter lens systems in both barrels than Leica and Zeiss but keep in mind this is an older comp and compares to the "older" Swaro, Zeiss and Leica. Not sure if any of them have changed their system since...

Thanks for this, the lack of Kestrel/BT on the Swaro EL Range sent me elsewhere to purchase. What were they thinking.

 

[Burdy]

Thanks for this, the lack of Kestrel/BT on the Swaro EL Range sent me elsewhere to purchase. What were they thinking.

Having had the EL Range 8x32s for a bit now, I can say that I absolutely love them. The limitation of no AB/kestrel support has done nothing to ruin the experience, on the contrary, I have found the EL Ranges to be spot on in its ballistic calculations using the onboard atmospherics and while the app to load your ballistics seems very basic, it has proven to be very easy to true-up. I feel like if you want to cut a lot of nonsense out of your workflow and still spit out the same results as your complex calculators, this is the tool. And of course, the glass is absolutely fantastic.