Spotters Swarovski, vs Hensoldt, vs Kowa, etc

[Mike Casselton]

A buddy of mine is looking to get a set of great, not good, GREAT spotters.

Their use will be for ELR, over 2000 yards.




****** The first and most important requirement is to have a Mil reticle available. That's not negotiable.



Second, is a binocular type of eye piece. If available.



This is where the problems start.

Swarovski and Kowa both make fantastic bino style spotters.

Kowa.
What can I say? Great glass, big, stable, various mags available for eye pieces.
And, you can in theory, mix and match if you want to go to mono view. No forehead rest for long term viewing. (Not really sure how important that is)
No picatinny rails.

Swarovski.
Great, really great glass. Bino and mono ocular setups available. 65-100mm main bodies available. Not sure if picatinny rails are doable.

Is there a mil reticle available?
??????



Hensoldt.
Great glass. Neutral color, mil reticle available. Mono view. Picatinny rails available for red dot or LRF pairing.





This begs a question.

What else is out there that has comparable glass, a Mil reticle and possibly bino viewing?





*****?Which ones are easier to spot trace with? ******

Which one has the better ability to resolve impacts at 2000+ yards?



Back in 2021, at the PRE, I overheard a discussion between the Swarovski and the Hensoldt.
Heard the Hensoldt was easier to spot trace.


What are your thoughts on this matter?

 

[redneckbmxer24]

If he spent a moment behind a BTX and a 115mm he probably wouldn’t care about having a reticle anymore. The right hallucinogens might get him a reticle though

 

[Mike Casselton]

They are nice, but a reticle is mandatory for his use.

So, in my meandering this morning, I also run into this from Nightforce.

https://cstactical.com/nightforce-c...pe-w-mil-xts-reticle-accessory-cage-kit-c696/

By the looks of it, they heavily modified an ATACR and came up with a spotting scope.

Does anyone around here have some time behind this optic?

 

[Mike Casselton]

Bumping this back to the top.

Is this a case of nobody has made the comparisons or,
Ain't nobody got time fo dat.

 

[kthomas]

I don't think you can get a reticle in either Kowa or Swarovski spotting scopes, sans getting a custom one made from some boutique optics outfit.

The mil reticle will really limit the options.

 

[carbonbased]

Mil reticle…great glass…I guess the Hensoldt for the win.

There’s the Swaro STR with the on/off mil reticle, but not sure if the glass is good or great.

 

[Mike Casselton]

I don't think you can get a reticle in either Kowa or Swarovski spotting scopes, sans getting a custom one made from some boutique optics outfit.

The mil reticle will really limit the options.

The reticle requirement is what makes this a difficult task.

To upgrade his spotter from the older HD Bushnell with reticle, the scope really needs to be a solid, clearly visible improvement over the Bushy.

I was unaware of the Zeiss with a reticle, but based on the review of the Swaro in attached link below, it seems trying to find the Zeiss is futile.

TFB Review: Swarovski Optics STR80 MRAD/MOA Spotting Scope

The Swarovski STR80 offers the best of two worlds. It has a a reticle that can be activated or deactivated as required. This means that you can deactivate the reticle if you're going bird watching. Basically it's an illuminated reticle that you can fade in or out, including night vision settings.

www.thefirearmblog.com

I don't know what his feeling will be on the big growth the Swaro has to include the reticle.
I can see having the ocular mounted low could be an issue.

It would be nice to have a place like the Outdoorsmans nearby to be able to make comparisons.
Sadly, this is the Tampa Bay area and we're lucky to have BPS and Sportsman's Warehouse. Neither place stocks the good stuff.

 

[LR1845]

MARK 4 20-60X80mm TMR

The Mark 4® 20-60x80mm tactical spotting scope with the TMR reticle gives you the brightness and clarity necessary for positive target identification in any conditions with more magnification than its 12-40x60mm counterpart. Built to survive shocks, blows, drops, and impacts, it's not only...

www.leupold.com

Mike I had a Leupod 20-60 with the reticle years ago, the glass was amazing might want to add leupod to the list of spotters your looking at they are nice...not sure about your Scheels or Sportsman's but ours here in Reno normally have these in stock and will take you outside to look through them.

 

[Mike Casselton]

MARK 4 20-60X80mm TMR

The Mark 4® 20-60x80mm tactical spotting scope with the TMR reticle gives you the brightness and clarity necessary for positive target identification in any conditions with more magnification than its 12-40x60mm counterpart. Built to survive shocks, blows, drops, and impacts, it's not only...

www.leupold.com

Mike I had a Leupod 20-60 with the reticle years ago, the glass was amazing might want to add leupod to the list of spotters your looking at they are nice...not sure about your Scheels or Sportsman's but ours here in Reno normally have these in stock and will take you outside to look through them.

The Leupold have always been solid spotters and IIRC, he's used them overseas.


Scheels?
I could only dream about having them here in FL. Same with Cabela's.

We get BPS, Sportsmans and Academy (the K-Mart of outdoor stores.

It might end up being a case of jumping on an airplane to compare them. He does travel a bit, so that option could work.

 

[Mike Casselton]

I have compared the Kowa TSN's 773 and the 883 in the field. On its own the 77 looks great but compared to the 88 the 88 is fantastic: sharper, more contrast and a little brighter. A good sample of 88 is at least as sharp and bright as Swaro but virtually without ca and excellent fine focussystem. I have the 883 now for 13 years and it feels and works as new.

Kowa doesn't make a spotter with a reticle that we're aware of.

 

[Guthwine]

There’s the Swaro STR with the on/off mil reticle, but not sure if the glass is good or great.

I had the chance to look through one at a match and it is a great piece of glass!

 

[Mike Casselton]

Vortex Razor enters the chat with the 22x fixed eyepiece.

Apparently, Tract offered a fixed reticle option, but it's no longer on their site.

ETA: did some more digging and found a fixed mil reticle using a different link to the Tract site.

 

[powdahound76]

@Mike Casselton

See some of the Kowas at Spearpoint.
Plenty of the Swaro STRs (some set as binos)

Talk to our bearded friend from WI, as they run the STR

 

[Mike Casselton]

I'll holler at him.
Thanks
We got to look through a set of the big Kowa binos at Arena two weeks ago. Very nice. Just no reticle.
I've looked through the Swaro bino eyepiece next to the Hensoldt single. They are both super nice.

 

[sam4886]

Steiner? https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1026765490

Bushnell lmss 2

Those are both pretty similar to the NF, and maybe not enough mag to see great at 2000m.

you could buy 2 for the price of the str80. One for each eye.

I would like to hear from anyone that's used any of these newer straight body, lower mag spotters though. Tough to find any real reviews on them.

 

[Simia Dei]

MINOX Spotting Scopes MD 60 ZR | MD60ZR | 80405436

www.minox.com

Check one of these out if you get the opportunity, I have the MD60, they're very underrated. The reticle is decent and doesn't clutter the image.

 

[carbonbased]

MINOX Spotting Scopes MD 60 ZR | MD60ZR | 80405436

www.minox.com

Check one of these out if you get the opportunity, I have the MD60, they're very underrated. The reticle is decent and doesn't clutter the image.

Ooh, that MD80 looks pretty tits. At first glance anyway.

 

[Mike Casselton]

Minox MD-80 with the US link.

https://www.minox.com/us/MINOX-Spotting-Scopes-MD-80-ZR/80405437

MD-60 is less expensive.

 

[Mike Casselton]

And the Revic S-80A with fixed 22x with reticle and variable eyepieces.

Revic Acura S80a Spotting Scope

www.revicoptics.com

 

[earthtrekker1775]

Ooh, that MD80 looks pretty tits. At first glance anyway.

It is, I have one and it is very, very good.

 

[earthtrekker1775]

Moved to pm

 

[TheHorta]

I like Whores R Us reticles.

 

[Mike Casselton]

I have two scopes with them. Rick uses Tremor 5 (I think) on his ELR scopes. They are NF 7-35.

The downside to the Tremor and H-59 is taking up so much real estate, making spotting and trace even more difficult to see.

Looking at the reticle in the Minox scope, it seems to be a good reticle without too much clutter.

It would be so awesome to be able to get behind a bunch of these and compare them in the same atmospheric conditions.

 

[carbonbased]

I like Whores R Us reticles.

Wtf. Where are the laff reactions to @TheHorta ’s excellent joke?

Bunch a stiffs in this room! Lol

 

[lash]

Wtf. Where are the laff reactions to @TheHorta ’s excellent joke?

Bunch a stiffs in this room! Lol

There! Ya happy now? I went back and out of pity, laughed at it…

 

[lash]

I do want to say though that I am following this closely as I think it’s useful for many of us dabblers in the sorta ELR and real ELR club. I have an old Kona with great glass and I’m digging around at home for the 30-60x eyepiece, but as we know Kona doesn’t do reticle at this time.

And being able to have a quick measuring tool while spotting at distance is an distinct advantage.

 

[carbonbased]

If you know what you’re doing (I don’t) the star-gazing crowd has taken the Pentax spotters and added all sorts of weird eyepieces to them.

See, the big Pentax (80mm, 100mm, the new 85mm) take standard 1.25” telescope eyepieces. I bet a machinist that mods telescope eyepieces could make many eyepieces work. You have to know something about optics/focusing too, obviously, so any old machinist won’t cut it.

I hear some of the Pentax eyepieces are world class. Alway been tempted to buy the 100mm but prefer angled eyepiece setups.

 

[Mike Casselton]

Wtf. Where are the laff reactions to @TheHorta ’s excellent joke?

Bunch a stiffs in this room! Lol

I had been without power and AC for three days.
My humor meter ran out of juice.

It was funny.
Like going to Sportsman's Whorehouse.
Or Ass Pro Shops.

 

[carbonbased]

I had been without power and AC for three days.
My humor meter ran out of juice.

It was funny.
Like going to Sportsman's Whorehouse.
Or Ass Pro Shops.

I knew I could count on you, Mike Asselton.

 

[carbonbased]

^like you haven’t heard that one before

But seriously, here’s to hoping you get some power back soon!

 

[Mike Casselton]

I knew I could count on you, Mike Asselton.

That's
See, with an Ass and an Elton

 

[Mike Casselton]

^like you haven’t heard that one before

But seriously, here’s to hoping you get some power back soon!

Got it back on just after dinner time.
Closed up the house and enjoyed it for a couple of hours. Then Rebecca and I noticed it started feeling warm.
I had an Ah-Ha moment and lifted up the drain float. Click!!
Yep, that's it.
Took the little Stinger vac outside and let it slurp up all the refreshed green slime that had dried and then created a plug when it got wet again.

All was well and I slept like a baby last night.

 

[Nik H]

The reticle requirement is what makes this a difficult task.

To upgrade his spotter from the older HD Bushnell with reticle, the scope really needs to be a solid, clearly visible improvement over the Bushy.

I was unaware of the Zeiss with a reticle, but based on the review of the Swaro in attached link below, it seems trying to find the Zeiss is futile.

TFB Review: Swarovski Optics STR80 MRAD/MOA Spotting Scope

The Swarovski STR80 offers the best of two worlds. It has a a reticle that can be activated or deactivated as required. This means that you can deactivate the reticle if you're going bird watching. Basically it's an illuminated reticle that you can fade in or out, including night vision settings.

www.thefirearmblog.com

I don't know what his feeling will be on the big growth the Swaro has to include the reticle.
I can see having the ocular mounted low could be an issue.

It would be nice to have a place like the Outdoorsmans nearby to be able to make comparisons.
Sadly, this is the Tampa Bay area and we're lucky to have BPS and Sportsman's Warehouse. Neither place stocks the good stuff.

I have an STR80. It gives up nothing to the Henny other than it is larger since it is not a folded optical path. If size is OK, I would put its glass up against any other spotter. The electronic reticle is sweet and more usable than what comes on the Henny, IMHO. The downside with the Henny is that the warranty is nonexistent.

 

[Nik H]

Talk to our bearded friend from WI, as they run the STR

His recommendation convinced me and he was correct.

 

[Mike Casselton]

I do love the Swarovski.
Maybe we can get a few brands side by side for him to compare them.