Swarovski, Zeiss, or Kowa

[ckmcmuso308]

I'm in the market for a spotter under $2500, and was wandering if there was a clear winner between a Swarovski 65HD, a Zeiss Daiscope 65, and a Kowa TSN 770 high performance.
I know the Kowa is a little bigger for better light, but did not know if there was a big difference between these scopes. Just wandering what everyone thinks.
Thanks

 

[bailey1474]

Re: Swarovski, Zeiss, or Kowa

Personally, I don't think you will notice much of a difference between any of the scopes listed. I know alot of guys like the Kowa but I don't think they are Swaro and Zeiss good.

 

[ckmcmuso308]

Re: Swarovski, Zeiss, or Kowa

I,m new here and was hoping for a few more opinions. Will be spotting out 500-1000 yards to shoot-nc targets or steel.
I was wandering if these would be a good pick for this. From what I've seen on this board, these are top of the line scopes. i'm a buy once cry once kinda guy, so it does'nt make sense to me to settle.

Thanks, Chris

 

[Aries64]

Re: Swarovski, Zeiss, or Kowa

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ckmcm308uso</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm in the market for a spotter under $2500, and was wandering if there was a clear winner between a Swarovski 65HD, a Zeiss Daiscope 65, and a Kowa TSN 770 high performance.
I know the Kowa is a little bigger for better light, but did not know if there was a big difference between these scopes. Just wandering what everyone thinks.
Thanks </div></div>
I own and use an older Zeiss Diascope 65T FL and have never owned a Swarovski 65 or 65HD, but for what its' worth, last year a gentleman with a <span style="font-weight: bold">non-HD</span> Swarovski 65 came over and asked if he could look through my Diascope 65T FL. After looking through my 65T FL for a few minutes the gentleman told me that he was a little upset that he had bought his <span style="font-style: italic">(non-HD)</span> Swarovski 65 without having looked through a Diascope 65T.

Unless you have to have a "virgin" scope, you should check the following links frequently for <span style="font-style: italic">"Demo"</span> and <span style="font-style: italic">"Open Box"</span> spotting scopes:

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-size: 11pt">SWFA Spotting Scope Demo Index</span></span></span>:

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Kowa Spotting Scopes</span></span>

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Swarovski Spotting Scopes</span></span>

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Zeiss Spotting Scopes</span></span>


<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-size: 11pt">Camera Land</span></span></span>

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Swarovski Spotting Scopes</span></span>

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Zeiss Spotting Scopes</span></span>


<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-size: 11pt">Optics Planet</span></span></span>

You can get some great deals from any of them from time to time. Good luck.


<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">EDIT:</span></span> If you want a spotting scope with the option of a MIL reticle Eyepiece, check-out the <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Optolyth Compacts</span></span>. The Optolyth Compacts have 80mm Objectives and are available in "Straight" and "45-Degree" models, and both models are available in HD and non-HD versions. The <span style="font-style: italic">"HD"</span> versions use Fluorite glass elements like the Zeiss Diascopes) I just sold my trusty Zeiss Diascope 65T FL after using it side-by-side with my new S80 HD Compact. To read my observations about the S80 HD Compact, read my <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Optolyth S80 HD Compact Spotting Scope</span></span> thread. <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">SWFA</span></span> sells the Optolyth line of spotting scopes, as does <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Bear Basin Outfitters</span></span>.


Keith

 

[fireEMT5]

Re: Swarovski, Zeiss, or Kowa

Although it's not on your list, do yourself a favor and check out the Vortex Razor HD. You can save yourself $1000 or a little more if you check around.

I'm not alone in stating that the Razor is top tier alpha glass, but yes, very slightly below those you mentioned. However, the slight difference and $$$$'s savings easily offsets the minimal HD glass difference. If you can, do yourself the favor and give your eyeballs a look through a Vortex. Seeing is believing, unless you want to spend your whole budget.

I was able to count the points on a young buck clearly a few days ago with my Razor. (Deer's head approx. the size of a average shoot n see target) I ranged the buck at 642 yards with my Zeiss PRF and yes, I ranged him several times to ensure accuracy.

The Razor gets it done for me, and I personally couldn't justify the very slight advantages that another $1000 might give me. At this level it seriously becomes a case of diminishing returns. In the end, let your eyes be the final judge along with your pocket book.

If you don't already have a good tripod and head, don't overlook that in your budget as well. Manfrotto seems to be highly regarded around here, unless you have the need for super light weight or special tactical needs.

 

[Opticsspecialist]

Re: Swarovski, Zeiss, or Kowa

out of all of them, i like the swarovski. you can't really go wrong with any for what your going to use the scope for, but i really like the focus mechanism on the swarovski. the glass is also the best i've used until you get into spotter 60 territory

http://www.sportoptics.com/Swarovski-HD-ATM-65-Spotting-Scope-Zoom-Eyepiece.aspx

 

[ckmcmuso308]

Re: Swarovski, Zeiss, or Kowa

Thanks guys for all the good info! I wound up buying a Swaro HD 65 package from Jay at www.sportoptics.com. Thanks for the deal Jay!
Airies64- I do have a Gitzo tripod in my sights maybe next year, I saw your pics of it....very nice.

Thanks Chris
Southern Illinois

 

[Jeffvn]

Re: Swarovski, Zeiss, or Kowa

I have a Zeiss 85mm and its pretty darn good glass.

This article is for the 80mm+ spotters and its getting a bit long in the tooth now, but it may help.

http://www.6mmbr.com/spotterreview.html

If you go with the Zeiss 65mm, you can get an aftermarket eyepiece with a mildot reticle built in........

JeffVN

 

[thewileyone]

Re: Swarovski, Zeiss, or Kowa

Swaro in my opinion is the best, Zeiss second best... Kowa seems to have more variation in quality so would therefore pass... If you can get a Swaro 80 or Zeiss 85, I think that you would be happier just because they let in more light than the 65mm...

If it was between Swaro 65 and Zeiss 85, it would be a harder decision for me.

 

[Aries64]

Re: Swarovski, Zeiss, or Kowa

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jeffvn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a Zeiss 85mm and its pretty darn good glass.

This article is for the 80mm+ spotters and its getting a bit long in the tooth now, but it may help.

http://www.6mmbr.com/spotterreview.html </div></div>
You're right Jeff - I read that article years ago and while a good read it is a little long in the tooth now.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jeffvn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you go with the Zeiss 65mm, you can get an aftermarket eyepiece with a mildot reticle built in........

JeffVN
</div></div>
With respect, there are two things that need to be mentioned here:

(1) <span style="font-weight: bold">FIXED OR VARIABLE, the same Eyepieces that fit the Diascope 65T also fit the Diascope 85T.</span> <span style="font-style: italic">However, due to the respective focal length differences between the Diascope 65T and 85T, the magnification factors are different between the Diascope 65T and 85T.</span> For example, a 30X Fixed in the Diascope 65T is actually 40X Fixed in the Diascope 85T, and a 15-45X Variable in the 65T is actually a 20-60X in the 85T.

<span style="font-weight: bold">In a nutshell, the (Zeiss Reticle #43) Fixed Mildot Eyepiece fits both the Diascope 65T and 85Ts' and is 30X on the Diascope 65T BUT 40X on the Diascope 85T.</span>

(2) Zeiss USA discontinued importing their Diascope 65T/85T Fixed Mildot Eyepiece several years ago, (from what I was told by Zeiss USA's Customer Service, Zeiss Germany actually still manufactures it but discontinued exportation of the Diascope Mildot Eyepiece.

Good luck finding one for sale - I refused to buy the Zeiss Mildot Eyepiece until I bought a Diascope (why buy an eyepiece for a spotting scope I didn't have yet) and have been looking for a Zeiss Mildot Eyepiece for more than three (3) years now. Zeiss's List Price was $699.00 and they seemed to sell quick when available.

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Mock-up of Illustration of the hard-to-find, no-longer exported Zeiss #43 Mildot Eyepiece Reticle:</span></span>

Keith

 

[Jeffvn]

Re: Swarovski, Zeiss, or Kowa

Keith

The eyepiece I was talking about was offered periodically by SWFA. I do not recall if it was a zeiss manufactured one or not.

I was unaware that the eyepiece for the 65 would work for the 85. Nice to know; I'll keep an eye out for the mil dot and grab the next one that I see.

Jeffvn

 

[Aries64]

Re: Swarovski, Zeiss, or Kowa

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jeffvn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Keith

The eyepiece I was talking about was offered periodically by SWFA. I do not recall if it was a zeiss manufactured one or not.</div></div>
The Mildot Eyepiece that SWFA used to sell was a Zeiss "Reticle #43" (Mildot) Fixed power Eyepiece. It is manufactured by Zeiss and was also sold by EuroOptic and others. Several years ago when I was looking for one REALLY hard, I was told by Zeiss USA Customer Service that Zeiss Germany stopped manufacturing the Reticle #43 (Mildot) Eyepiece. But last year I had a distributor look into the #43 Eyepiece and I was subsequently informed that Zeiss Germany still manufactures the #43 Eyepiece but that (unfortunately), Zeiss Germany stopped exporting them. One reason why the Reticle #43 Eyepieces dried-up. I've been looking for one for several years now to no avail.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jeffvn</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was unaware that the eyepiece for the 65 would work for the 85. Nice to know; I'll keep an eye out for the mil dot and grab the next one that I see.

Jeffvn </div></div>
I wish you luck on finding one - I've finally given-up, which is why I've decided to sell my Diascope 65T FL. If you want another Diascope or you know of anyone who is looking for one I'm selling my <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="color: #FF0000">Zeiss Diascope 65T FL complete with accessories</span></span></span>. If I could find the Zeiss #43 Mildot Eyepiece - or better yet - if I could get my hands on the (Fixed) Eyepiece the Finnish Army uses in their Diascopes' I wouldn't be selling my 65T FL.


Keith

 

[NRAShooter]

Re: Swarovski, Zeiss, or Kowa

Wow, this is like blondes, brunettes or redheads? Which is best?

I have two Kowa's and love them both. Kowa is one of the standards for HP rifle competition. Hard to beat.

I also have a Zeiss which I use for tactical applications. Smaller, lighter and great optics. I wish I had the mildot eyepiece, but I don't.

I also had a Konus which I sold on this forum. Great value for the money.

You might want to consider Optolyth. They make great glass and sell a spotter with a ranging reticle.

In the end, it depends on your budget and your application. For me, optical clarity and durability are key. A ranging reticle is mildly interesting, but for that mission I'll use a Leica LRF or soon a Geovid set of binos.

Good luck.

 

[FPO]

Re: Swarovski, Zeiss, or Kowa

Good choice with the Swaro and Sport Optics!

 

[threetrees]

Re: Swarovski, Zeiss, or Kowa

also check/keep in mind the warranty. swaro is basically a ship and repair-for-free company (okay, they manufacture around the corner for me)

 

[fred3]

Re: Swarovski, Zeiss, or Kowa

Swarooo 65mm I pack it everywhere and love it

 

[Aries64]

Re: Swarovski, Zeiss, or Kowa

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NRAShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...You might want to consider Optolyth. They make great glass and sell a spotter with a ranging reticle.</div></div>
I don't know if you were replying to me (you "replied" to my post, but most people on this reply to the wrong person so I don't know for sure), but as a matter of fact I had already done my homework and decided on an Optolyth S80 HD Compact to replace my Diascope 65T FL. You can read about it in my <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">"Optolyth S80 HD Compact Spotting Scope "</span></span>thread.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NRAShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In the end, it depends on your budget and your application. For me, optical clarity and durability are key. A ranging reticle is mildly interesting, but for that mission I'll use a Leica LRF or soon a Geovid set of binos.

Good luck. </div></div>
Its' true that the budget and the application should drive the buying decision. Optical clarity and durability are are key for me too, but a MIL reticle is more than just <span style="font-style: italic">"mildly interesting"</span>. I use a Swarovski LG30 for ranging, but MIL and MOA-based reticles are also great for calling corrections.

My desire for a MIL reticle Eyepiece was the driving force in my quest for a spotting scope with a MIL Eyepiece. My <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Optolyth S80 HD Compact</span></span> is a very close match to the Zeiss Diascope 65T FL in terms of optical performance, and since the Zeiss Diascope Mildot Eyepieces haven't been imported into the U.S. for years the S80 HD is a great option for shooters' who want a MIL Eyepiece.

Below is a "mock-up" of what Optolyth's 30X WA MIL Reticle actually looks like when viewed through my Optolyth S80 HD Compact. The size and placement of the reticle is very different from Optolyth's drawing, as <span style="font-weight: bold">Optolyth's drawing shows a smaller reticle, and as a result the lower corners of the reticle are much further from the edges of the view than what is seen in-person <span style="font-style: italic">(at least when viewed through an 80mm scope).</span></span> For comparison, I also posted a picture of Optolyth's drawing of the MIL Reticle.

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">"Mock-up" view of Optolyth 30X WA MIL Reticle as seen through S80 Compact. (Reticle size and location have been adjusted):</span></span>

Below is Optolyth's MIL Reticle drawing. Notice that the Reticle is smaller, placing the Reticle's lower "corners" further from the edge of the view - that is not an accurate depiction of the actual view (at least through an Optolyth 80mm scope).

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Optolyth MIL "Ranging" Reticle drawing (Reticle is not drawn to scale nor is location within the view accurate):</span></span>

Keith