Rifle Scopes Talk Me Out of A Potentially Bad Idea and Waste of Money for AR Optics Setup

lawofsavage

lawofsavage

Deplorable
Banned !
Full Member
Minuteman
Jul 13, 2012
1,150
266
Birmingham, AL
#1
Here is my idea for an "all-purpose" ar setup. Could potentially be used on a 14.5" or 16" small frame ar with premium barrel. My main goals are:

(1) "red dot fast" up close
(2) not significantly heavier than the current 1-8 and 1-6 lpvo's on the market
(3) reliable and durable
(4) have extra magnification just because it's more interesting to me to have it

Want to be able to use it for anything without being overly burdensome/heavy or slower up close but am willing to take a little weight and speed penalty. Just wanting to get opinions about it really for a general use setup that could be used mostly for the range but anything I wanted like classes or comps or even home defense but I've got other stuff that is already setup for that so I'm trying to do something different to see how I like it

Anyway, here's my idea:

Leupold VX5 3-15 with impact reticle 19 ounces

Spuhr mount with red dot on top either rmr or aimpoint


Also, what height sphur mount would you guys use to get the aimpoint or rmr positioned at a comparable height to where it would be with a normal red dot mount in the 1.9" height range

Is there any reason to think I would be giving up any speed with a setup like this if the red dot is basically in the same position it would be with normal mounts and the only penalty would be the extra weight the 19 extra ounces of the leupold scope and whatever the differential is between the spuhr and a normal red dot mount?
 
#2
You basically want to set up a DMR in a short barrel rifle. I would setup the 3-15 on a 20” and a red dot with magnifier on a carbine/SBR. I get you only want one rifle, but I’ve tried all that, and it’s bulky/heavy and cumbersome. Some might have a different experience on this. I use a holosun 510 elite and a 3x magnifier right now, but honestly would be fine with a front sight post with carry handle on my carbine, mainly because I don’t worry too much about shots past 50 yards, with most shots with in 15-20ft for close quarters training.
 
  • Like
Reactions: camocorvette, notorious and lawofsavage
#5
Why not get some LT mounts and just swap out as needed?

I run a 1-8 on my primary deer AR (308) but my small team gets red dot for pig brush busting, thermal, or ACOG depending on what I’m doing. You don’t have to be “a jack of all trades master of none” with current quality QD mounts IMHO.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lawofsavage
#6
I've got several red dots now as well as a leupold vx6hd 1-6 and a burris xtr2 1-8 and I like all of them a lot, for sure and no complaints but I was just trying to brainstorm a way to get red dot performance on the low end and a little more mag on the high end without paying a huge weight penalty

What I'm currently thinking about now is a leupold 4-12 with tmr reticle that weighs like 13 ounces so it seems like if you went with like a 1.3" spuhr mount you could get the dot where it would normally be and come in lighter than a lot of lpvo's
 
#9
I feel Like the extra mag definitely helps for me at least if the target is 3moa or less once you get into the 600 yard range or around that area but for sure on bigger targets I don’t feel like 6x is very limiting at all
 
#11
Most likely will still with lpvo’s

just was curious about something where you’d set it up where the dot is the main focus getting it at the right high so it feels natural but If needed you can take a Little extra time for more precise shots in a 1.3” mount or around that range
 
#12
6x is fine for full sized targets but I like the 10x for those longer shots (500-700) at smaller targets. 12x+ would be even better if you can find one in a smaller, light weight package (mk6 3-18 comes to mind)
 
  • Like
Reactions: lawofsavage
#14
That’s the concept except I’m looking for a way to get into the 12-18x mag range but still be in a normal LPVO weight range with a decent holdover reticle with low profile turrets and a way to get the red dot in the same position it would be with a normal red dot mount in the 1.5” to 1.9” range
 
#15
1.3" to centerline of scope
.59" is half of 30mm to get to top of scope tube

That's already 1.89" before you add in the actual height of the metal on the top cap. Then add on height of mount. Basically, you arent getting a normal height red dot if you put it in top of a mount. You get a lower mount, you arent going to be able to see through it.
I think your best bet is a 45* red dot.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Steel+Killer, deersniper, Pointman308 and 1 other person
#17
Thanks for all the comments so far. Going to do a little research to see if it’s even possible to get an rmr or Aimpoint t2 at a height in the 12 o’clock position comparable to a 1.9” mount while the magnified scope is in a 1.3” mount
 
#18
If you want the red dot at a 12 o'clock position, it will be at a higher than normal sight height. I run a red dot on an offset mount, so that when I rotate the rifle it is at the right height. I have tried a piggybacked red dot at 12 o'clock and I can make it work with some training, but offset seems quicker. Piggyback'ed re dot does make it easier if you switch hands.

If you want to get into 15x or so of magnification, there is going to be a weight penalty for that. All the scope you suggested are SFP, which is not my cup of tea for DMR-type applications and most FFP 3-15x or similar scopes are a little bit on the heavy side.

The lightest is probably VX-3i 4.5-14x50 LRP at around 20 ounces. I do not like that scope, but it is light.

SWFA SS 3-15x42 is a better scope, I think, and it is a little heavier at 24 ounces.

Much more expensive March 3-24x42 is a hair under 23 ounces, I think.

ILya
 
  • Like
Reactions: deersniper and lawofsavage
#21
koshkin said:
If you want the red dot at a 12 o'clock position, it will be at a higher than normal sight height. I run a red dot on an offset mount, so that when I rotate the rifle it is at the right height. I have tried a piggybacked red dot at 12 o'clock and I can make it work with some training, but offset seems quicker. Piggyback'ed re dot does make it easier if you switch hands.

If you want to get into 15x or so of magnification, there is going to be a weight penalty for that. All the scope you suggested are SFP, which is not my cup of tea for DMR-type applications and most FFP 3-15x or similar scopes are a little bit on the heavy side.

The lightest is probably VX-3i 4.5-14x50 LRP at around 20 ounces. I do not like that scope, but it is light.

SWFA SS 3-15x42 is a better scope, I think, and it is a little heavier at 24 ounces.

Much more expensive March 3-24x42 is a hair under 23 ounces, I think.

ILya
Click to expand...
What do you think of the NF 2.5-20?
Or the atacr f1 4-16?

Thanks
 
  • Like
Reactions: lawofsavage
#22
Also, if anyone has any ideas on magnified optics in the 12-18x range with a decent holdover reticle with low profile turrets and under 20 ounces, I’d owe you one. I’m not coming up with much other than leupold and possibly Swarovski.

Don’t mind SFP for this because I’ll probably be on max mag when not using the dot the majority of the time especially if I’m actually so maybe 12-15x would be better
 
#25
lawofsavage said:
Also, if anyone has any ideas on magnified optics in the 12-18x range with a decent holdover reticle with low profile turrets and under 20 ounces, I’d owe you one. I’m not coming up with much other than leupold and possibly Swarovski.

Don’t mind SFP for this because I’ll probably be on max mag when not using the dot the majority of the time especially if I’m actually so maybe 12-15x would be better
Click to expand...

LRTS is gonna be close.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lawofsavage
#27
Sounds like a waste of money, as you said. If you’ve already got dedicated range and HD AR’s that fill their roles well then why waste money on trying to do any all around rifle that’s going to do nothing great?

A 14.5-16” AR with a solid 1-8 is a great rifle to have in the stable and is going to be as all around as all around gets without completely sucking for one task or another. A 14.5-16” with a long range optic and a red dot... no thanks.

IMO two AR’s is the way to go. An 18” SPR setup similarly to how you’re talking with a high quality 3-12/15/18x or 4-16 FFP optic with good tree reticle (it gets no better than Tremor 3) in a mount with a 45 degree red dot for DMR stuff but will also work in a pinch close up, and a 10.5-12” gun setup with a 1-6/8 for CQB that will also reliably stretch out to mid range.

The money you’re talking about spending would probably be far better used upgrading the systems you already have to be better equipped for their roles. They’re obviously lacking something if you’ve got multiple AR’s are are looking for another to fill a gap that isn’t really there.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lawofsavage
#29
The DFC said:
I've got that exact scope on a KAC LPR-so a DMR role. It is very light and the Impact 29 reticle is extremely usable. Glass is very clean as well.

As others have suggested you could go 45 deg with a RDS or even irons for close in work.
Click to expand...

You may have convinced me then haha. I really feel like that’s a sweet spot in their lineup as far as mag range and weight at 19 ounces

add an Aimpoint t-2 at 3 ounces

22 ounces for optics isn’t that much more than a lot of lpvo’s on the market

Mount shouldn’t be significantly heavier than a normal LPVO mount like spuhr or bobro

just going to have to do a little trial and error to see if I can use a 1.3” mount for the magnified optic so it’s still useable

but also be able to mount a dot in the 12 o’clock mounted at a height equal to or less than some of the 1.93” or even 2” mounts would put the dot at. I do tend to like more of a straight up head position for close up speed type work so as long as it’s pretty close to that I’m willing to try it but would probably say the idea is not worth trying if I can’t find a mounting solution where the dot would be at a comparable height to a mount on the 2.1” range is probably the point where I’d just try an offset instead or just stick with lpvo’s
 
  • Like
Reactions: The DFC
#32
lawofsavage said:
but also be able to mount a dot in the 12 o’clock mounted at a height equal to or less than some of the 1.93” or even 2” mounts would put the dot at. I do tend to like more of a straight up head position for close up speed type work so as long as it’s pretty close to that I’m willing to try it but would probably say the idea is not worth trying if I can’t find a mounting solution where the dot would be at a comparable height to a mount on the 2.1” range is probably the point where I’d just try an offset instead or just stick with lpvo’s
Click to expand...
You cant. Look at the math.

Remember that 2" mount is the centerline of the optic. So that mean you have roughly 1.4" total to mount an optic under an Aimpoint body not including whatever aimpoint mount you'll need. For the scope, remembering that a 1.3" mount is centerline of an optic, the minimum mount height for a 30mm tube will be 1.89" plus thickness of a top cap.
The VX5 has an objective OD of 2.09". So even if you had the scope resting on the rail and screwed the aimpoint directly into it, you would be higher than a 2" mount. The closest you are going to get is a Leupold D-EVO/LCO combo but magnification wont be what you want.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lawofsavage
#33
redneckbmxer24 said:
Sounds like a waste of money, as you said. If you’ve already got dedicated range and HD AR’s that fill their roles well then why waste money on trying to do any all around rifle that’s going to do nothing great?

A 14.5-16” AR with a solid 1-8 is a great rifle to have in the stable and is going to be as all around as all around gets without completely sucking for one task or another. A 14.5-16” with a long range optic and a red dot... no thanks.

IMO two AR’s is the way to go. An 18” SPR setup similarly to how you’re talking with a high quality 3-12/15/18x or 4-16 FFP optic with good tree reticle (it gets no better than Tremor 3) in a mount with a 45 degree red dot for DMR stuff but will also work in a pinch close up, and a 10.5-12” gun setup with a 1-6/8 for CQB that will also reliably stretch out to mid range.

The money you’re talking about spending would probably be far better used upgrading the systems you already have to be better equipped for their roles. They’re obviously lacking something if you’ve got multiple AR’s are are looking for another to fill a gap that isn’t really there.
Click to expand...
Who here hasn’t bought more guns to fill non existent gaps lol

More guns don’t make you a better shooter that’s for sure.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lawofsavage
#34
When you all are saying 45* rmr do you mean off the scope mount or the rail ?

41F01D7D-6343-4F71-A19A-30658D49DE03.jpeg
D17241C6-3C67-42FC-8796-FC75784851DE.jpeg
 
  • Like
Reactions: lawofsavage
#35
deersniper said:
When you all are saying 45* rmr do you mean off the scope mount or the rail ?

View attachment 7191950View attachment 7191951
Click to expand...

Personal preference really, I don’t think it makes much of a difference. I’ve run both and I feel like on the rail is a little faster when you’re actually on it and shooting and you keep a better cheek weld, but when throwing the gun up or transitioning from magnified optic to the offset RDS and vise versa I find the dot/transition quicker with the ring mount sight.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lawofsavage and deersniper
#36
I have a 14.5” proof carbon, 16” CLE, and 18” white oak barrel I can use for this That aren’t being used much.

I’ll probably be selling them except the proof of anyone’s interested haha

I’ve already got a 10.5” with an eotech, several 16’s with various 1-6’s and 1-8’s but I’ve settled on Vx6hd’s 1-6 and Burris xtr2 1-8 for the most part and I have a 18” with a 3-18 mark 5.

also have a 6.5 Creedmoor with craddock barrel on a Seekins build kit with a 5-25 mark 5 that hammers as well

I’m just really going toward smaller and lighter right now but trying to brain storm something where I still feel comfortable on small targets at distance ( want to be comfortable with 1 moa targets out 600 yards with this) where I’ve got a dot at a reasonable height 12 o’clock that feels natural without a huge weight penalty

maybe the answer is practice more with the 1-8 but I notice a huge difference on small targets with the higher mag scopes I have compared to the 8 power where it’s so much faster to shoot accurately with the higher power, maybe that’s just a training thing for me since there are guys that can hold 1moa at distance with zero magnification and that’s most likely the answer to just get better with what I have

I appreciate all the comments about different setups as that was the whole purpose of the thread as well as to see if what I’m wanting can even be made to work with a little creativity But it’s not looking like it will with a 1.3” mount

and and this is a big question mark is that’s assuming I can find some sort of mounting solution so the dot sits as low as possible to where your sight picture isn’t obscured at all by the turrets

I just measured from the centerline to the top of a capped turret on a 30mm Leupold scope I have and it’s about .9 inches.

It looks like I’d have to go down to around a 1.2” mount for the scope to put the dot in a similar position as where it would be if there was such a thing as a 2.1” red dot mount

don’t think that will work that well being that low
 
#37
Aimpoint 1/3 mount is 2.2" but it is measured to the centerline of the optic. What you are talking about is
1.2" mount
+ .9 to top of turret
+ .6" roughly to centerline of aimpoint with no mount
Your aimpoint will sit at least 2.7" to center. And that's assuming you get a mount that bolts directly to an aimpoint and isnt higher than the turret.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lawofsavage
#38
srt-4_uk said:
Aimpoint 1/3 mount is 2.2" but it is measured to the centerline of the optic. What you are talking about is
1.2" mount
+ .9 to top of turret
+ .6" roughly to centerline of aimpoint with no mount
Your aimpoint will sit at least 2.7" to center. And that's assuming you get a mount that bolts directly to an aimpoint and isnt higher than the turret.
Click to expand...

I think you’re right, even the night vision mounts for aimpoints are 2.3” to the centerline of optic.

I think you’re right that I would basically have to add 1.5” to whatever the centerline of the scope tube is to figure out what the comparable Aimpoint height would be. There’s no way a .8” mount would work so the answer looks like it’s going to be just get better with lpvo’s hahaha

no way to cheat my way around a training issue with gear no matter how hard I try to hahaha
 
#39
The King said:
Agreed. Also I have done this setup you are talking about (m5c2 Leupold Mk6 3-18 and aimpoint t1).

It wasn’t good enough to stay in my stable.

The big trick with the NX8 is to realize that using the holdover tree gets you a very tight aimpoint at distance. the 10mils of drop in the reticle mean you can get out there pretty well.

I will also add that you probably have enough optics to experiment instead of invest.

I would put the 1-8 on the proof 14.5, then engage at distance. Then I would put something bigger on and engage again.

You may find that down range ballistic performance is hurting you more than the optic is.

I see a fair number of folks shoot LPVO on a 16” 556 and then say “if I had more magnification it would be fine”...Then they get out a 6.5 creedmoor with a 4-16 and say “See!”

I consider the nx8 with the proof barrel in an ar15 to be one of the Grail guns.
View attachment 7191983
Click to expand...

damnit, now I’m going to have to get an nx8 haha
 
#42
I've got a 16" SHTF rifle that has a 1x6 LPVO scope (illum, ret,), a 45 deg. Weaver mount w/ Bushnell TRS-25 RDS, and MBUS sights. In all honesty, I've got too much shit on my rifle, but I do shoot it quite well and it's fun and it's accurate. It does the job, whether I'm shooting paper at 50-100 yds., or banging steel at 200-300 yds.. IMO, using a 45 deg. mount on the rail would work best. I can't see having a RMR/RDS mounted on top of your dedicated optic, being very easy to shoot with, due to the cheek weld and such, but that's just me (short, stocky neck). Never tried it, but that would be my thoughts. Mac:cool:
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Rpatton73
Optics **UPDATED OPTICS FOR SALE 04/12/2025** OPTICS, SUNSHADES, LASERS, MAGNIFIERS, FLASHLIGHTS, MOUNTS and RING SETS
Replies
0
Views
167
Rpatton73
Rpatton73
Rpatton73
Optics **UPDATED OPTICS FOR SALE 04/06/2025** OPTICS, SUNSHADES, LASERS, MAGNIFIERS, FLASHLIGHTS, MOUNTS and RING SETS
Replies
0
Views
184
Rpatton73
Rpatton73
Rpatton73
Optics **UPDATED OPTICS FOR SALE 03/31/2025** OPTICS, SUNSHADES, LASERS, MAGNIFIERS, FLASHLIGHTS, MOUNTS and RING SETS
Replies
0
Views
235
Rpatton73
Rpatton73
Rpatton73
Optics FOR SALE!! **UPDATED 01/26/2024** - OPTICS, MOUNTS, RINGS, RAILS, RED DOTS, MAGNIFIERS, BUIS, GRIPS, STOCKS, TRIGGERS, MONO/BIPODS, LIGHTS, ADAPTERS
Replies
8
Views
1K
Crowe284
Crowe284
Rpatton73
Accessories FOR SALE!! **UPDATED 01/26/2024** - MOUNTS, RINGS, RAILS, RED DOTS, MAGNIFIERS, BUIS, GRIPS, STOCKS, TRIGGERS, MONO/BIPODS, LIGHTS, ADAPTERS
Replies
0
Views
165
Rpatton73
Rpatton73
Top Bottom
Back
Home
Forums
Merch
Alerts