Range Report Target Dope vs. Android Shooter Solution

[CleanMoostang]

So I went and shot a little yesterday, only 500 yards because we had a few guys with AR's that wasnt in to long range and just let me take the further steel targets.

I dont have an accurate reading on my MV yet, but I do have a general ideal of the speed and went to test it out.

.308 175gr SMK hpbt
44gr Reloader 15
2.836oal
Rem700 SPS Tactical 20'' bbl

Figured it was going around 2650mv.

So I punch it in my Shooter app for android and it comes up saying 2.1mil for 500y.

Its actually hitting directly center of target with 3.0mil adjustments.

How can I configure my app to the point its recognizing 3.0mil for 500 yards and it become close to other ranges when I enter them?

 

[Willyz_54]

Re: Target Dope vs. Android Shooter Solution

Personally, I prefer to use a program to approximate my dope and then either print a range card, or make dope rings to stick on my elevation turret. You can use your actual 3 mil dope at 500 and play with the mv variable to get where you need to be. I know this does not specifically address your issue, but it is a good alternative, that way your dope is on your turret should something happen to your phone. My Android screen is cracked to Sh!t but my dope ring works just fine. Good luck.

 

[CleanMoostang]

Re: Target Dope vs. Android Shooter Solution

Thanks for the reply.

One problem I am running in to is that even when I change my MV when I edit my ammo, it doesnt change the required adjustments on the solution page. Can you test to verify if its just me with a problem?

Even if I change mine to 2800fps mv it stays the same..2.1mil

 

[CleanMoostang]

Re: Target Dope vs. Android Shooter Solution

Woah, update....

Started working correctly now that I am on wifi at the house for some reason, and I put my MV at 2350 and it hit exactly on 3.0mil at 500 yards..Guess I am going PRETTY slow..

 

[HunterH]

Re: Target Dope vs. Android Shooter Solution

I use shooter on my iphone

 

[LawnMM]

Re: Target Dope vs. Android Shooter Solution

I would bet you are closer to 2550 and have bad environmental data or it wasn't at 500yds. How did you gather your DA, Altitude, Temp? How do you know it was 500? Is it a square range or target you set up? Verify the distance by laser?

 

[dzlfarmboy]

Re: Target Dope vs. Android Shooter Solution

How longs your barrel?

I was around 2500-2550fps with that load in a 20" tube

 

[CleanMoostang]

Re: Target Dope vs. Android Shooter Solution

Its not exactly 500 from shooting rest, from barrel to target was 490, but I was still adjustong my app for 490 and coming out differently... target was based and I'm using a 20'' bbl

 

[redirt78]

Re: Target Dope vs. Android Shooter Solution

Try some factory ammo just to check. 2350 is slow mo for a 20"

 

[wadebrown]

Re: Target Dope vs. Android Shooter Solution

A couple of other things to check:
- Are your scope's clicks actually what they say they are? Do a box test to verify.
- Are the zeros at the same range for your gun and the inputted value in Shooter?
- Is the scope height value in Shooter correct?
- As mentioned earlier Environmentals, are they correct?

I would be very surprised if your MV was 2350 fps. I find the come ups from Shooter to be very close to actual, but if the input is not correct they actual and predicted will npt match up very close. Remember the old saying about computers "Garbage In, Garbage Out"

Good Luck,

wade

 

[SONIC SAAMI]

Re: Target Dope vs. Android Shooter Solution

Have you calibrated,box tested the scope?

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: Target Dope vs. Android Shooter Solution

something is definitely out on your shooter (BC or weight or something).
2.1 for elevation is WAY low. If you have to drop MV to 2350 to get a 3.0 mil comeup for 500 for a 175SMK then you need to check the bullet's parameters. That's a little drastic for it to be environmentals.

As stated, you really need to check your scope's adjustment too, but that wouldn't make a program give you an oddball evelation. The 3.0 mils you actually used is right in the ballpark for 175's at 2600ish

 

[CleanMoostang]

Re: Target Dope vs. Android Shooter Solution

I got all of my environmental factors from the Shooter App, I am able to get 3G service and with my GPS activated on my phone it updates all of the factors every 15 seconds or so.

Several things I do not have filled out or might not have filled out correctly:

Barrel Twist: 1-12
Twist Direc: Right
Sight Height: 1" DO NOT KNOW ACTUAL HEIGHT, HAVENT MEASURED
Sight Offset: 0
Evelation: Mils
Turret Grad: 1/10
Windage: Mils
Turret Grad: 1/10
Lead Unit: Mils
Elev Correction Factor: 1 DONT KNOW WHAT THIS MEANS
Wind Correction Factor: 1 Dont know what this means

Bullet Diam: .308
Bullet Weight: 175
Bullet Length: 1.24 ????????????
MV: 2300fps
MV Variation: BLANK?????????????
Powder Temp: 70*
Atmosphere Std: ICAO??????????
Drag Model: G7???????????????
1st BC: 0.505 Min Velocity 2800fps
2nd BC: 0.496 Min Velocity 1800fps
3rd BC: 0.485 Min Velocuty 0fps
Zero Range: 200yds
Zero Height: 0
Zero Offset: 0
Enable Zero Atmosphere: UNCHECKED

GREYED OUT:
aLTITUDE
BARO. PRESSURE
PRESSURE IS ABSOLUTE
TEMPERATURE
HUMIDITY

Then on the solution page where you select range, everything auto fills with my gps and 3g service except the spring drift information and Corillis Effect...

 

[Augustus]

Re: Target Dope vs. Android Shooter Solution

You are showing your zero range at 200, is this correct. Atrag shows 2.7 mils for 500 with 200 yd zero. For 100 yd zero it shows 3.2 which is dead on for the 175 at 2600 or so.

 

[CleanMoostang]

Re: Target Dope vs. Android Shooter Solution

Yeah my zero is definitely 200, adjusted it to 200y the same day and reset my knobs on my scope to zero when I was on target @200.

DFOOSKING - This is kind of my problem, I have adjusted my MV and it is telling me that for 490yards which is what I was shooting on the previous day, I should be hitting 3.0 mils on the paper with a MV of 2325fps at highest possibility. It also stays at 3.0mils when I go down to around the 2315fps range.

I am going to assume the reason for this is because of my 20'' barrel with only a 1-12r twist.

What I am really wanting to know is if I chrono the load again after going from 42gr to 44gr, will I notice a huge change?

When we first chrono'd the 42gr load it was traveling with a average of 2380fps.

 

[Augustus]

Re: Target Dope vs. Android Shooter Solution

Are you using the G7 drag model, the .505 you have listed is a G1, If the program will accept a G1 try that. I it don't accept G1 look up the correct G7 and enter it.

 

[Augustus]

Re: Target Dope vs. Android Shooter Solution

The G7 BC should be .234, if you are using .505 and the G7 profile your dope will be way off.

 

[CleanMoostang]

Re: Target Dope vs. Android Shooter Solution

Making progress now. Changed it to the G1 drag model and checked the drop at 490 and it was 3.7 with a MV or 2300fps. Adjusted up until I hit exactly 3.0mil dots and the first MV it arrived on was 2435fps and ended with 2456fps before going to 2.9mils.

Guess this will be a good starting point for me to work with, not sure what a drag model even is other than more current formulas used by the military are G7 from what Ive read.

thanks everyone for the help!!!

 

[CleanMoostang]

Re: Target Dope vs. Android Shooter Solution

That is everything but for absolutely nothing, lots of great information and it helped me out greatly, thanks!!

 

[WyomingShooter]

Re: Target Dope vs. Android Shooter Solution

The Bryan Litz book "Applied Ballistics for Long Range Shooting" Second Edition has a chapter on ballistic software. The author basically makes the point that modern "solvers" are remarkably accurate. Errors in software ballistic predictions are largely a product of incorrect data being inputted.

In my, albeit very limited, experience - he's absolutely correct. I use Shooter and JBM. Both give me great results when I input the correct data. I eliminate as many default values (e.g. sight height) as possible in favor of verified data. I suggest being meticulous in your data entry (e.g. velocity). I think you'll see good results. Best regards, ELN.

 

[SONIC SAAMI]

Re: Target Dope vs. Android Shooter Solution

CLEANMOOSTANG

As mentioned before sight height isn't that critical,tell you are shooting way out,but getting it is easy.

Use a caliper and measure your barrels diameter at the scopes bell and divide that number by 2
Now measure the scopes bell and divide by 2
Now measure the distance between the scopes bell and the top of the barrel.
Now add up all three measurements.
You should now have sight height

 

[CleanMoostang]

Re: Target Dope vs. Android Shooter Solution

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DaveD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">CLEANMOOSTANG

As mentioned before sight height isn't that critical,tell you are shooting way out,but getting it is easy.

Use a caliper and measure your barrels diameter at the scopes bell and divide that number by 2
Now measure the scopes bell and divide by 2
Now measure the distance between the scopes bell and the top of the barrel.
Now add up all three measurements.
You should now have sight height
</div></div>

I will try this when I get home from work, let you know how it goes and what numbers I get, obviously if I am way off I should be able to tell, and post pics of what and how I am measuring it.