Target interpretation help ---- Annealed brass & Non-Annealed

[RRP II]

Shot with my 6.5 Creedmoor (26" barrel, prone with bipod and rear bag, scope is the Vortex Razor HD 5-20) today at 200 yds. on three targets with five rounds on each. Allowed two min. between shots to cool barrel. Two targets were shot using annealed brass and the third was with non-annealed brass. All brass had been reloaded 3 to 4 time before. The annealing was done with the Bench Source annealer.The Bullets were all Berger 140 Target VLD in Harnady brass, Powder was H4350 of 42.4 gr. with the Fed. 210M primer. Ogive seating depth of 2.176 which is .030 off the lands. Squares on the target are 1 inch.

Do I need to do a OCW for just the annealed brass or is this a seating depth problem in order to tighten up the annealed brass group size? Not sure what direction to start working the problem. Looking like I may need to have a load work up for annealed brass and one for non-annealed brass.

Open to any and all recommendations.......thanks Richard

 

[OF&B]

Shot with my 6.5 Creedmoor (26" barrel, prone with bipod and rear bag, scope is the Vortex Razor HD 5-20) today at 200 yds. on three targets with five rounds on each. Allowed two min. between shots to cool barrel. Two targets were shot using annealed brass and the third was with non-annealed brass. All brass had been reloaded 3 to 4 time before. The annealing was done with the Bench Source annealer.The Bullets were all Berger 140 Target VLD in Harnady brass, Powder was H4350 of 42.4 gr. with the Fed. 210M primer. Ogive seating depth of 2.176 which is .030 off the lands. Squares on the target are 1 inch.

Do I need to do a OCW for just the annealed brass or is this a seating depth problem in order to tighten up the annealed brass group size? Not sure what direction to start working the problem. Looking like I may need to have a load work up for annealed brass and one for non-annealed brass.

Open to any and all recommendations.......thanks Richard

No particular order, not intended as criticism, just floating ideas......

How were the velocity spreads in each of the groups? If they were worse with annealed brass you might want to evaluate the brass temperature and time you're using.

Did you check your die settings with the annealed brass? They will likely be different if the previous brass wasn't annealed. Shoulder bump and neck tension.

When was the barrel last cleaned and how many shots does it typically take to start shooting half moa groups like target 3? Target 3 looks like a good problem to have.

My experience with annealed brass is the average velocity stays about the same, but the spread comes down. I might be reading over something, but it looks like groups 1 & 2 were shot with the same ammo but have a 22 fps difference in the average and their averages pretty much straddle the unannealed brass. Another OCW test won't help if the velocities don't closely track the charge weights. If 1 &2 were shot with the same ammo, it looks like the vertical POI is significantly different.

 

[SVG308]

One thing I started doing after annealing is to use some dry lube on the bullets before seating. I was having excess vertical on the load right after annealing and this seems to have worked for me as they are just as accurate as the subsequent firing now. Try it out and let me know if that helps.

 

[AZ.noob]

One thing I started doing after annealing is to use some dry lube on the bullets before seating. I was having excess vertical on the load right after annealing and this seems to have worked for me as they are just as accurate as the subsequent firing now. Try it out and let me know if that helps.

What are you using for dry lube?

 

[No1]

You might find that your groups won't settle until 2 or 3 firings after an anneal. Even straight wall pistol brass will exhibit this behavior from new brass to a few times fired. That annealed brass is soft and doesn't grip the bullet the same as work hardened brass.
So like you said, you may need a load, or change 1 variable, for fresh anneal and one for non-annealed.

 

[SVG308]

What are you using for dry lube?

Imperial dry neck lube. I just dip base of bullet in before seating.

 

[RRP II]

No particular order, not intended as criticism, just floating ideas......

How were the velocity spreads in each of the groups? If they were worse with annealed brass you might want to evaluate the brass temperature and time you're using.

This was my first attempt at annealing brass. The time and temp setting were based on testing brass using liquid Tempil on the inside of the case neck and the outside of the brass from the neck down the side of the case. Time in the flame was based on the visual of the brass neck, and removing from the flame before the neck glowed orange-red which is 4.5 sec. using two torches.

On target 1 the ES is 42, Average 2662 fps and the SD is 13.8
On target 2 the ES is 48, Average 2639 fps and the SD is 16.8
On target 3 the ES is 36, Average 2655 fps and the SD is 13

Did you check your die settings with the annealed brass? They will likely be different if the previous brass wasn't annealed. Shoulder bump and neck tension.

All the brass was FL sized in a Redding S die with a .289 bushing and then trimmed. All reloading was done on the Dillon 650, with the Redding Competition Seating Die. without any change to seating depth for all loads.

When was the barrel last cleaned and how many shots does it typically take to start shooting half moa groups like target 3? Target 3 looks like a good problem to have.

Usually clean after 2-300 round or when I notice groups opening up. After a cold bore shot or two I've had no problem with groups like target 3, or better when I am having a good day. The barrel is a 26" Brux with a 1:8 twist.

My experience with annealed brass is the average velocity stays about the same, but the spread comes down. I might be reading over something, but it looks like groups 1 & 2 were shot with the same ammo but have a 22 fps difference in the average and their averages pretty much straddle the unannealed brass. Another OCW test won't help if the velocities don't closely track the charge weights. If 1 &2 were shot with the same ammo, it looks like the vertical POI is significantly different.

OF&B

Thanks for your good comments and suggestions.........Richard