Target Size suggestions for PRS Rimfire

[Dthomas3523]

So, we are jumping in with both feet locally. We have been doing PRS type matches for a while, but now trying to lock it down a bit more.

Things I’ve noticed that differ a lot from centerfire:

A dirt berm matters much more in Rimfire. If you can easily see your misses, you can make the target substantially smaller. If you can’t, you need a much larger plate or a lot of shooters will start either A: posting up zeros or low scores or B: luck plays a huge factor when someone either makes good wind call or sees so many people try something they get the call.

It’s either too easy for the top pack while adequate for the rest. Or it’s challenging for the top pack and the rest of field gets crushed. It’s much harder to make a middle ground match in Rimfire than centerfire (there are other reasons for this besides target size, but lets focus on targets here).

So, what I’m looking to do is to make a suggestion matrix for our local MD’s. Basically:

“Use 2 moa until 100 yds. Then depending on berm: 3moa berm or 4moa no berm from 100-250yds. 4 moa berm or 5moa no berm from 250 to 350yds”

And then suggestions for slightly harder matches such as a finale or special match.

So, I’m going to make a list of possible outlines, and I’m asking anyone here to either use the outline to give suggestions or if you think the parameters should be different, give your thoughts in general. I’m looking for answers in MOA target size.

Here’s my preliminary matrix:

(note that I’m defining positional as barricade/prop shooting. Not as unsupported/sling shooting)

Standard Club Match Difficulty (90-95% acceptable for winner of match) 2min stages

25-125 yds
Prone Berm: ?
Prone No berm: ?
Positional Berm: ?
Positional No Berm: ?

125-225yds
Prone Berm: ?
Prone No berm: ?
Positional Berm: ?
Positional No Berm: ?

225-350yds
Prone Berm: ?
Prone No berm: ?
Positional Berm: ?
Positional No Berm: ?


Finale or special difficulty (80% acceptable for winner of match) 1:40 stages

25-125 yds
Prone Berm: ?
Prone No berm: ?
Positional Berm: ?
Positional No Berm: ?

125-225yds
Prone Berm: ?
Prone No berm: ?
Positional Berm: ?
Positional No Berm: ?

225-350yds
Prone Berm: ?
Prone No berm: ?
Positional Berm: ?
Positional No Berm: ?

 

[BLJ]

Watching. Im trying to come up with distances and sizes myself.

 

[Dthomas3523]

I also realize that things such as amount of targets and/or movements between shots plays a factor.

But we can’t make a matrix that covers every single scenario. And it’s still up to the MD to decide. This is just a basic idea/outline for them to reference.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Was just supplied this. I think it’s pretty realistic:

 

[IamJoHo]

Was just supplied this. I think it’s pretty realistic:

View attachment 7488201

Never seen this before but looks pretty solid.

 

[Trigger Monkey]

I agree, that pretty much falls in line with the rimfire matches I've been shooting.

 

[hlee]

While challenging- especially in any sort of wind- I really like a 50 yard KYL, shot prone or "modified prone" or seated. Specifically, this set of target sizes, if not this rack...

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A kid with a Kidd can clean it (I've seen my son do it), but a top shooter can just as easily drop one or more.

Something our local match does is set up 2 targets at each stage where there is only a single target presentation. Alternate back and forth between the targets to allow them time to stop swinging.

That chart posted above looks reasonable to generous, though I have never set the targets for a match, so I don't know the sizes other than the KYL. The props used at the Texas Precision Matches rimfire events may be "unusually solid," as my first impression was that a 2" circle at 50 yards looks like a grapefruit at 25x. Tagging in someone that I think could add to the conversation. Calling @Darqusoull13...

 

[littlepod]

I found the Nationals CoF was pretty good this year. https://nrl22.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/STAGES.pdf I didn't feel like any stage significantly was rough except for the coke bottles stage when the wind started picking up...

For matches we run locally.
10-12 shots 120s. So average of 10-12s a shot.

For NRL22X / Finales
12 shots 90s. So average of 7.5s a shot.

25-75 yards, I haven't had significant wind, so berm or no berm it hasn't made a difference. At 25-75 yards, you should be able to read wind at you, and not worry a significant change 50 yards away.

Prone - 3/4-1moa. Berm/NoBerm doesn't matter.
Positional - 2moa. Berm/No Berm doesn't matter.

Wind factors in more here, though again winds switching between where you are and 100y out isn't that much. At 200y I've seen switching winds do some havoc.

So I'd say 75-125 yards.
Prone - 1.5 moa.
Positional 2-3 moa.

125-225.
Prone - 3moa. This is mainly around STDeviation of ammo.
Positional - If you factor in positional is to add in another 2moa of wobble, then I'd say you are shooting a 5moa target.
At 5moa, your horizontal spread covers really wind calls, so at this range I think the berm/no berm doesn't matter, and you can see your bullet too a lot of times.

Scrolling up above and reading the Vudoo chart, I think it's pretty spot on so I'll stop recollecting what my 225-400 was...

 

[Jevaughn0823]

I think when setting up a match you should favor toward generous sized targets. From what I've heard when talking to guys at different matches it gets really frustrating not hitting targets. And I know that can be taken many ways, equipment, skill, etc. But if your not at least allowing people a decent opportunity to ring some steel they won't come back. With all the factors that affect a .22 projectile in such a short distance, let those be the determining factors of misses along with tighter time's and positional building. There are guys out there that can smoke any course a match director can set up, but those guys are not the majority that are keeping the matches alive. Plus I've had the opportunity to shoot with some amazing .22lr shooters from NC and I have yet to see any of them totally clean a course regardless of it's difficulty. Just my .02 cents, hahaha.

 

[hlee]

And, gauge your audience. If you’ve got mostly kids and grandparents showing up with their “squirrel rifles,” generous targets. If you’ve got mostly guys in jerseys showing up vudoos and tricked out full custom builds, small targets...

 

[littlepod]

Most of the time I find the time is the issue for new shooters, so I usually give them an additional 60-90s on a stage. The NRL22 CoF is pretty forgiving and is usually about 2-2.5moa sized targets.

 

[Dthomas3523]

I think when setting up a match you should favor toward generous sized targets. From what I've heard when talking to guys at different matches it gets really frustrating not hitting targets. And I know that can be taken many ways, equipment, skill, etc. But if your not at least allowing people a decent opportunity to ring some steel they won't come back. With all the factors that affect a .22 projectile in such a short distance, let those be the determining factors of misses along with tighter time's and positional building. There are guys out there that can smoke any course a match director can set up, but those guys are not the majority that are keeping the matches alive. Plus I've had the opportunity to shoot with some amazing .22lr shooters from NC and I have yet to see any of them totally clean a course regardless of it's difficulty. Just my .02 cents, hahaha.

That’s all well and good, and most will agree.

The question is, what is generous and what is not. Generally speaking.

The vudoo chart above is a pretty happy middle ground if you look in the middle of the color scales.

 

[Jevaughn0823]

That’s all well and good, and most will agree.

The question is, what is generous and what is not. Generally speaking.

The vudoo chart above is a pretty happy middle ground if you look in the middle of the color scales.

You are correct looking at the chart I think that is a fair size to yardage ratio. Time and multiple positions are what I feel are the more challenging aspects to setting up a good match. Good luck to finding a good balance, to match all skill levels and make sure everyone is having a good time is a hard thing to do.

 

[Criver600]

Excellent discussion, Looking at Voodoo's chart, the 12" edge to edge (round?) at 300, 20" at 400, would be tough for quite a few. But tough is what it takes to improve.

 

[Gleedus]

Was just supplied this. I think it’s pretty realistic:

View attachment 7488201

Yes this is realistic. I attached a picture of the target sizes from the canadian rimfire precision series match I hosted this summer.
4.5 moa average target size 185 yard average distance. Top guy was 81% average 54% hits. Stage 5 was prone stage 6 was prone with moving. 4-8 mpr wind switching wind from 10-1 depending on target direction. Up to 45⁰ arc of fire. I also calculate what I call wind factor (average target size MOA /(average distance YARDS/100)= approximate MPR width of plate. In this case 2.4 if you have switching high wind then this should be bigger but if its suddenly a calm day top guy would be a 95%

 

[b6graham]

the only reason i go bigger than 1" inside 100y is if i run out of targets or have a shitload of movement. positional or prone.

if i go bigger than 1" inside 100 its still never bigger than 2moa

targets out to 400 are in the 2-3 moa range for the most part

no berms anywhere.

KYLs down to 1/4" normally in the 45-65y range

mover at 1.5mph with 1.5-3" targets at 50-100y

matches are 10 stages in the 110 round count area.
120-130 average distance
average scores normally in the 55-60% and winner in the 70-85%