Tavor 7; Ammunition problems- Factory vs. Reloads

[character26]

If this is not allowed in this forum please let me know. Or if anyone has a a recommendation of another forum that might have more knowledge on this matter please advise.

Just picked up a Tavor 7 brand new. First time out at the range 7 of 40 rounds, (my reloads), the bolt would not chamber and lock into place; pulled the trigger and no bang with no marking at all on the primer. Once this occurred, the bolt and round were stuck, and a significant amount of force was necessary to eject the round.
Went through everything, totally recleaned the rifle soup to nuts and went back to the range. First we used a magazine of FC '23 7.62 NATO new manufacture. The entire magazine functioned no issues. We went back to the original 7 rounds of reloads, hoping maybe a full cleaning and they would chamber now. No go, same thing happened to the first two rounds of reloads we re-tried. We then went to new manufacture Winchester 7.62 NATO in LC '23 cases, and no issues, full magazine, full functioning.
Okay so now it seems like my reloads are the issue correct?? Well here's the thing. Checked my brass in an RCBS precision micrometer. All brass measured between 0.000" on the gauge or up to .012" under. Most instances were under SAAMI zero specs measuring the shoulder on multiple cases. Checked the OAL of the brass with a regular micrometer. All brass measured within +/- .003 of the 2.005" trim to length. Next tried a Wilson case gauge; all brass completely and without any force necessary other then dropping the brass in seated completely, and seems completely within specs on the gauge. Finally we removed the bolt carrier group and tried the plunk test into the chamber with my reloads. All the remaining reloads I made passed the plunk test completely. As soon as you dropped the round into the chamber they dropped completely into place. There was no sticking whatsoever on the shoulder, or on the OGIVE meaning the bullet was not sticking or touching the lands. No matter how hard we used our thumbs to force the round into the chamber it always dropped right out.
Here are the specs on my reloads we were using. LC '74 brass once fired. Primer pocket cleaned, and Swagged. Case annealed, then full length sized. Trimmed to length and then gauged in the Wilson gauge for a go-no-go test. Round assembled using Winchester LR primers, 38.5 grn. of IMR 4064 for a starter load, and X-Treme bullets 147 grn, FMJ .30 caliber bullets. Bullets were seated to an OAL of 2.675", it's where the cannelure would be seated completely for a factory crimp die. Please do not use my load and do your own homework for your safety.
My father and I have been reloading for a long time now, but we're stumped. Anything anyone can offer for help on this is greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.

 

[bfoosh006]

I'd check your casehead diameter... and the rim.

Can your reloads easily insert into your bolt face ?

 

[BCP]

Small base size your cases, trim to 2.00 and put more gas behind those squibs

 

[jaycoux]

I'm not sure what to say about that if it fires factory stuff without issue. My Tavor 7 has never seen a factory round, just reloaded LC cases. Never had a problem. I've never used a small base die either. Don't think it’s the trim length if your numbers are accurate. My datum measurement on the shoulder from a fired round to a resized one is about .01 difference. I am using CCI primers and have never tried Win primers but I doubt that would be your issue from what you posted. I checked my resized cases on a wilson gauge and my cases sit either flush or ever so slightly below the lower step.

I think if I were you I would first triple check that all the grease from the factory was completely removed from all the operating parts. Completely disassemble the bolt, piston and clean everything. Lube per factory recommendations. If you went that far already then ignore. Sometimes what people refer to as cleaning is different from one person to the next. Then take the factory brass you already shot and resize that to 0.01 below the fired datum length, reload as per usual and see if that helps. For what it's worth the Tavor 7 is a very nice, soft shooting rifle, and it's surprisingly accurate with the right ammo.

 

[FALex]

There are just some barrels that will not allow you to chamber brass fired out of a different chamber. In my personal experience, this is usually with semi autos. I have had two different precision gas guns where I was unable to chamber some rounds that I had previously fired in my bolt rifles.

I took measurements of every single portion of the cases, distance to lands, etc, etc...until I was blue in the face and frustrated as a son of a bitch.

I bumped shoulders to the point of the cases almost becoming unsafe, and they still would not chamber completely. None of it made sense.

The only issue I found is that the portion of the case just above the case's rim (going toward the neck) expands after being fired in chamber X.

This area expands enough to not allow those cases to chamber from one gun to the next.

 

[character26]

There are just some barrels that will not allow you to chamber brass fired out of a different chamber. In my personal experience, this is usually with semi autos. I have had two different precision gas guns where I was unable to chamber some rounds that I had previously fired in my bolt rifles.

I took measurements of every single portion of the cases, distance to lands, etc, etc...until I was blue in the face and frustrated as a son of a bitch.

I bumped shoulders to the point of the cases almost becoming unsafe, and they still would not chamber completely. None of it made sense.

The only issue I found is that the portion of the case just above the case's rim (going toward the neck) expands after being fired in chamber X.

This area expands enough to not allow those cases to chamber from one gun to the next.

That’s an interesting concept. I never thought of that. I have a different set of brass I think we’re gonna try next. I checked the case rim outside diameters, there was no difference. This one is a bit baffling. I went so far as to think it might be the bullet contour difference. The x-treme bullets contour Is rather stubby looking compared to the factory 7.62 NATO stuff I shot out of the gun. Maybe there’s a difference with how these bullets chamber in the barrel grooves. Still trying to figure it out.

 

[character26]

I'm not sure what to say about that if it fires factory stuff without issue. My Tavor 7 has never seen a factory round, just reloaded LC cases. Never had a problem. I've never used a small base die either. Don't think it’s the trim length if your numbers are accurate. My datum measurement on the shoulder from a fired round to a resized one is about .01 difference. I am using CCI primers and have never tried Win primers but I doubt that would be your issue from what you posted. I checked my resized cases on a wilson gauge and my cases sit either flush or ever so slightly below the lower step.

I think if I were you I would first triple check that all the grease from the factory was completely removed from all the operating parts. Completely disassemble the bolt, piston and clean everything. Lube per factory recommendations. If you went that far already then ignore. Sometimes what people refer to as cleaning is different from one person to the next. Then take the factory brass you already shot and resize that to 0.01 below the fired datum length, reload as per usual and see if that helps. For what it's worth the Tavor 7 is a very nice, soft shooting rifle, and it's surprisingly accurate with the right ammo.

Also see my reply to the other gentleman’s thoughts on the thread. I did think of those things and completely stripped the rifle soup to nuts. We were also thinking the ejectors were sticky/super tough. Are they known for that?

 

[BCP]

The xreme bullets are shaped like little footballs, my load is LC brass/42.5 TAC/2.68 or wherever the cannelure is on the 147. That load gave me the same velocity as milspec ammo over my chrono.

 

[character26]

The xreme bullets are shaped like little footballs, my load is LC brass/42.5 TAC/2.68 or wherever the cannelure is on the 147. That load gave me the same velocity as milspec ammo over my chrono.

You still think small base die them? As far as load it’s my first with 7.62. I’m used to .30-06 for the garand and and 5.56 for my x95.

 

[salks]

It is not the diameter of the rim so to speak. It is the dia. of the case just above the rim. .001 of an inch bigger because it was fired in a different chamber and dies don't size that far down. Sometimes even a small base resizing die will not help.

 

[BCP]

If you load up a mag full of your reloads, let the bolt fly home and the round is hopelessly stuck it's 99.9% brass sizing issue. It *COULD* be shitty brass that is springing back after resizing but that is really rare. I have piles and piles of FC and LC brass that I size with a SB die, trim to 2.0 and shoot the shit out of it in m1a/AR10 etc. Never have cycling issues.

 

[jaycoux]

Also see my reply to the other gentleman’s thoughts on the thread. I did think of those things and completely stripped the rifle soup to nuts. We were also thinking the ejectors were sticky/super tough. Are they known for that?

Not that I’ve seen. One way to check on the Xtreme bullet is just to check the ogive compared to your commercial stuff.

 

[character26]

If you load up a mag full of your reloads, let the bolt fly home and the round is hopelessly stuck it's 99.9% brass sizing issue. It *COULD* be shitty brass that is springing back after resizing but that is really rare. I have piles and piles of FC and LC brass that I size with a SB die, trim to 2.0 and shoot the shit out of it in m1a/AR10 etc. Never have cycling issues.

What's your brass life/how many reloads are you getting from the cases using small base dies all the time??

 

[BCP]

What's your brass life/how many reloads are you getting from the cases using small base dies all the time??

Usually 3-4 and then throw them away because the necks get brittle. If I annealed they would last a lot longer.

 

[FALex]

It is not the diameter of the rim so to speak. It is the dia. of the case just above the rim. .001 of an inch bigger because it was fired in a different chamber and dies don't size that far down. Sometimes even a small base resizing die will not help.

This dude is 100% spot on. It has nothing to do with the rim. And he’s also correct in that even a small base die will not touch this area. Trust me: been there, done that a few times with a few different rifles.

I would almost guarantee this is your issue. Most modern semi-autos don’t need a small base die. Sizing the case is mostly about bumping the shoulder, and bumping it so that it’s enough to cleanly chamber and extract, but not so much as to cause case-head separation.

Speaking from experience, I’d say .002 at the least and no more than .004. With my JP, I could get away with just running spent cases through the FL die and not moving the shoulder for at least two cycles. Most semi-autos need to have their cases’ shoulders bumped after every firing.

 

[Desert metal]

I am new here and read about this problem. I have had the same issue with my reloads. I have also had this issue with my scar 17. It has only happened about once every 100 rounds. I have started to separate my brass to be shot out of specific guns to see if this helps the issue. I full leghth size also and have suspected that some how that tiny area as described above is the culprit. Also i was able to throw those rounds that wouldnt fire in a mag and they did fire the second time around. I love my tavor and it has the eotech hhs green on it. I am able to on a good day get 1.5 inch groups at 100 yards

 

[DPG4271]

OP I had the same issue with my Tavor 7. To correct the issue I first tried using a small base reloading die. This seemed to help but did not completely solve the problem. After that I thoroughly cleaned the chamber. Again it was marginally better but not fixed. Based on stuck cases I had mortared out of the chamber I saw a lot of damage to the rim. It appeared the extractor was a little thick and not able to fully engage with the rim. When sliding closed it appeared the extractor was getting wedged against the chamber. To fix the problem I removed the extractor from the bolt and gradually removed material from the inside of the extractor claw. It was a slow process with multiple reassemblies to get it right without taking too much off. The rifle now runs great.