Tavor: acute change in accuracy

[SquarePizza]

Tl;dr: Every time I shoot my Tavor, even supported prone, the POA vs POI changes each day, despite never touching the turrets.

Long version:
Set up a x95 with PA 3x micro prism. Shooting 2-3moa and doing great.

Doing a gun run, last stage I was locked on, great position and couldn’t get a single hit on a ipsc torso at 100yards.

Got home, accuracy seemed random, then I found that the rail screws had backed out and the rail was flopping around. Tightened them down gently, and set it aside for 6months.

Another gun run coming and I break it out, first day I hand to hold under to hit at 100. Second day put it on paper and it was 8moa at best.

Third day, tested four loads (including the same load as the last 3 times) and it was grouping 2-3moa with each load, but every load was 4 inches low.

Today, attempt to rezero the micro prism and all shots completely off of a 16” cardboard. After holding high, low, left or right and not getting on paper I couldn’t handle it and walked away before I smashed it with a sledge.

All this time, I have not touched anything since tightening the rail. I haven’t touched the reticle adjustments. Nothing has changed and each day the POI has no relation to the day before and I am completely at a loss on what the hell could be going on.

 

[hafejd30]

Did you try a different optic with same results?

 

[SquarePizza]

That’s tomorrow’s project. I didn’t realize it would be possible for an optic to shift without being adjusted

 

[Edsel]

That’s tomorrow’s project. I didn’t realize it would be possible for an optic to shift without being adjusted

It happens every now and then with expensive glass.

What you’re using is a “budget” optic.

Goes without saying that lemons will occur more frequently.

That being said, Tavors are not known for being “MOA shooters” to begin with despite their price.

 

[SquarePizza]

I’m not expecting an MOA gun. For gun runs it being 2 MOA-ish was perfectly fine until it went to shit.

I’m hoping it the glass being a lemon and I hope the replacement is good to go if this one is a lemon. There are not many options in a light weight fixed power unless paying for an acog. An lvpo is just more weight than I want to run with.

 

[redbullitt]

I'd bet something is lose. I've shot a lot of tavor and it will ring 100 yard steel and clays no problem.

Could even be barrel worked loose, optic mount, bad optic, rail still come loose or another hidden screw loose.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Make sure the barrel is locked down. There is a key for doing quick changes.

 

[SquarePizza]

Barrel is in the lock position, and that nut is a bitch to turn. But I took everything else apart and will torque all the screws to factory spec on reassembly.

A friend had a spare primary arms lvpo in his truck, so I’ll swap that on to rule out the micro prism.

Hopefully this weekend I can get this all sorted out.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Yea the Tavor is interesting. I have one of the first ones imported, was on a wait list for 2 year. Cool gun but kinda disappointing. X95 fixes some of the issues. Probably the worst trigger on a rifle ever made. Neat as a collector but as a fighting gun would be one of the last things I pick up.

 

[SquarePizza]

The had us go up a stream for almost a mile with tight conditions at times during a gun run last year. I really loved the shortness of it at that time

 

[Shoreglide]

Yea the Tavor is interesting. I have one of the first ones imported, was on a wait list for 2 year. Cool gun but kinda disappointing. X95 fixes some of the issues. Probably the worst trigger on a rifle ever made. Neat as a collector but as a fighting gun would be one of the last things I pick up.

Geissele Super Sabra is the answer. Difference is dramatic. No precision rifle trigger, but excellent for the intended use of a Tavor. It takes about 90 seconds to install.

 

[SquarePizza]

I’ve thought about the Geissele trigger pack, even with my paramedic discount at PA, it’s still a pricey upgrade.

Well, small update. I tore the whole rifle down except the barrel (don’t have the wrench and she’s firmly in the lock position). Cleaned, reassembled and everything tightened down.

Still using the micro prism I used a huge cardboard and found it printing 11” left and 6” high. I had very limited time so I walked it onto the target and was only able to do a single 2 shot group once on the paper. Group was terrible but 2rnds is not a real group.

My goal is to fire a real group in the morning to see if it’s the same location and how big it is.

I do have a toddler so turning the reticle when I wasn’t home is a real possibility.

Lastly, I do have my buddies lvpo that I will put on if I can’t get the prism to group to verify optic vs rifle. I have 6 days to get this sorted out and all 6 of them I’m on toddler duty.

 

[Texascbr]

If you don’t have a spare optic to test with use the Tavor flip up irons already on the rifle. With as big a shift as you’re seeing it will be easy to confirm with the irons.

 

[hafejd30]

I’ve thought about the Geissele trigger pack, even with my paramedic discount at PA, it’s still a pricey upgrade.

Well, small update. I tore the whole rifle down except the barrel (don’t have the wrench and she’s firmly in the lock position). Cleaned, reassembled and everything tightened down.

Still using the micro prism I used a huge cardboard and found it printing 11” left and 6” high. I had very limited time so I walked it onto the target and was only able to do a single 2 shot group once on the paper. Group was terrible but 2rnds is not a real group.

My goal is to fire a real group in the morning to see if it’s the same location and how big it is.

I do have a toddler so turning the reticle when I wasn’t home is a real possibility.

Lastly, I do have my buddies lvpo that I will put on if I can’t get the prism to group to verify optic vs rifle. I have 6 days to get this sorted out and all 6 of them I’m on toddler duty.

With the shift you’re seeing you could zero out a laser if you have one. Streamlight etc etc to the dot. Then see if you notice a change over a few days of handling the rifle. Won’t need to fire a round to try that.

There’s a bushing between the handguard and barrel on those. It should cause that much issue but if your handguard was loose or something maybe it would.

 

[B4forever]

I’m more concerned about your toddler having access to your guns than I am about your inconsistent accuracy. Not trying to be a dick here, but please lock up your guns. I’ve seen this go wrong too many times.

 

[SquarePizza]

Micro prism definitely does not return to previous zero after each remount, given that it’s been off and on a lot, that’s probably a part of it.

That bushing may be part of it. Front rail is properly torqued but the front end has some flex to it, so me adding a bipod and then loading it may push the rail hard into that bushing.

Prism shot an excellent group today once I stopped loading the bipod so that makes me happy.

About toddler access to firearms. Only non-functional firearms, no ammo. If I have a project it gets left on my desk in pieces until I’m done with the project. So I don’t doubt that she could have taken the prism off the desk and fiddled with it.

 

[salks]

I’m more concerned about your toddler having access to your guns than I am about your inconsistent accuracy. Not trying to be a dick here, but please lock up your guns. I’ve seen this go wrong too many times.

I'll 2nd that.

 

[Edsel]

I do have a toddler so turning the reticle when I wasn’t home is a real possibility.

What?

Look, no matter how this is spun - this is awful.

 

[hafejd30]

I’ll third the issue of a toddler being able to blame for your bullpup not being zeroed. Even if it’s just parts and harmless. I wouldn’t want my kids being able to walk off with firearm parts that I need. I loose enough parts on my own

It does however take me back to the good old days. Chilling on the jungle gym. My juice box in one hand and my Tavor X95 in the other

Those were the days