this thread probably could have gone in the stupid questions or suppressor forum, since i couldn't decide, it ended up here.
Specs:
GAP Hospitaller on a Defiance Deviant (Templar V2) 308, 24” fluted
KRG Whiskey 3 Gen5
TBAC Ultra9 and 30P-1
Razor Gen2
Atlas bipod
FGMM 168
All shots 100yds
A little bit of back ground info before we get started on this journey. For starters, I know the rifle shoots. It's an honest 3/8 to half MOA, and I'm not even a good shooter! I am very out of shape and I smoke (which I hate), my breathing behind the rifle sucks, and my follow thru and shot calling is nonexistent. It was getting to the point that shooting at 300 (furthest I can go) was getting boring. It'd do 1-1.5" groups at 300. My next goal is to be proficient at the dot drills. Preferably half MOA dots...center punched. I also want to get into more dynamic shooting that isn't just prone or from a bench.
So I finished up early with work yesterday, and thought, "It's been a few months since I shot, so hell yeah!". Well, the rifle was giving me fits beyond belief yesterday. For the life of me, I couldn't get a five shot group under 1". Most groups were closer to 1.5". I tried everything...I took the rifle down completely and retorqued everything the same way I had it previously. Still shitty 1" groups. Might as well been a damn 870 I was shooting! Next was the scope. Took the scope assembly all apart and retorqued the same as last time. Still nothing. Now I'm getting ready to flip. It couldn't be the ammo, I have shot 4 different lot numbers (I buy FGMM 168 by the bulk) INCLUDING this lot number with 3/8-1/2moa results. It wasn't the weather. It was beautiful yesterday. A few gusts of wind, but no big deal. F-it, I went home and had a few beers bitching to the ol' lady how I suck and hate shooting and how I'm not gonna be ready for the class I'm taking in a few weeks lol.
So here comes today. Again, finish up work early and I'm off to the range to conquer this bitch. Maybe I was just having an off day yesterday. Same...damn...results...I was pissed. The only thing that has changed since last time I was out was my shiny new TBAC Ultra9 that I received in January and took for it's maden voyage yesterday. I took a few puffs of my cigarette that I hate so much and thought, "Nah...there's no way it could be the can". So for shits and giggles, I threw on my old, out dated 30P-1 and shot a few 5 round groups. Well holy steaming shit cakes, the rifle shot normal. Ain't no freaking way. I put the Ultra9 back on...870 scatter gun groups again. WTF. Well maybe it is the can? I did something I haven't done in a few years, I shot unsuppressed just to see what would happen. What happened was I realized shooting unsuppressed sucks. I also learned that my rifle, other than the POA-POI shift, shot the same groups as my 30P-1. Now I'm really puzzled. I had another stupid cig and thought about the weight difference between the 2 cans. Harmonics? Maybe? I don't hand load and don't fully understand the mumbojumbo talked about in the reloading forum, but I do have a Magneto Speed! (which is the first time I used by the way lol) So I did 10 rounds each; 10 30P-1, 10 Ultra9, 10 unsuppressed. I just shot into the berm and didn't do any groups because that isn't the data I was after. The results are listed below:
30-P1 Ultra9 Un
2684 2687 2676
2702 2688 2690
2685 2697 2686
2708 2695 2684
2692 2696 2694
2683 2680 2689
2699 2699 2707
2695 2708 2667
2695 2710 2684
2705 2693 2694
Avg 2694 Avg 2695 Avg 2687
SD 8.8 SD 9.1 SD 10.7
ES 25 ES 30 ES40
I am not sure 100% what all these numbers mean, but I think I have a good idea. The reason I did this was because people are always talking about how the cans affect FPS vs unsuppressed, "slow the bullet, speed it up, doesn't do anything", and with the different weight of the cans, I figured what the hell it wouldn't hurt to record a few numbers just so they are there and for the smart people here to try and help out.
To my untrained eye, it looks like the numbers from the 2 cans are comparable but I don't understand why the difference in group size between the 2 cans. The pics below are a good average sample of group size for each respective can and round count and not cherry picked to say, "hey look at me with my 2 shot group with both holes touching!". I did shank a few shots as you will see in the pics.
So what gives? Any insight from people that actually know what the hell they are doing with these tools?
EDIT TO ADD:
for reference, the circles are 1"
Specs:
GAP Hospitaller on a Defiance Deviant (Templar V2) 308, 24” fluted
KRG Whiskey 3 Gen5
TBAC Ultra9 and 30P-1
Razor Gen2
Atlas bipod
FGMM 168
All shots 100yds
A little bit of back ground info before we get started on this journey. For starters, I know the rifle shoots. It's an honest 3/8 to half MOA, and I'm not even a good shooter! I am very out of shape and I smoke (which I hate), my breathing behind the rifle sucks, and my follow thru and shot calling is nonexistent. It was getting to the point that shooting at 300 (furthest I can go) was getting boring. It'd do 1-1.5" groups at 300. My next goal is to be proficient at the dot drills. Preferably half MOA dots...center punched. I also want to get into more dynamic shooting that isn't just prone or from a bench.
So I finished up early with work yesterday, and thought, "It's been a few months since I shot, so hell yeah!". Well, the rifle was giving me fits beyond belief yesterday. For the life of me, I couldn't get a five shot group under 1". Most groups were closer to 1.5". I tried everything...I took the rifle down completely and retorqued everything the same way I had it previously. Still shitty 1" groups. Might as well been a damn 870 I was shooting! Next was the scope. Took the scope assembly all apart and retorqued the same as last time. Still nothing. Now I'm getting ready to flip. It couldn't be the ammo, I have shot 4 different lot numbers (I buy FGMM 168 by the bulk) INCLUDING this lot number with 3/8-1/2moa results. It wasn't the weather. It was beautiful yesterday. A few gusts of wind, but no big deal. F-it, I went home and had a few beers bitching to the ol' lady how I suck and hate shooting and how I'm not gonna be ready for the class I'm taking in a few weeks lol.
So here comes today. Again, finish up work early and I'm off to the range to conquer this bitch. Maybe I was just having an off day yesterday. Same...damn...results...I was pissed. The only thing that has changed since last time I was out was my shiny new TBAC Ultra9 that I received in January and took for it's maden voyage yesterday. I took a few puffs of my cigarette that I hate so much and thought, "Nah...there's no way it could be the can". So for shits and giggles, I threw on my old, out dated 30P-1 and shot a few 5 round groups. Well holy steaming shit cakes, the rifle shot normal. Ain't no freaking way. I put the Ultra9 back on...870 scatter gun groups again. WTF. Well maybe it is the can? I did something I haven't done in a few years, I shot unsuppressed just to see what would happen. What happened was I realized shooting unsuppressed sucks. I also learned that my rifle, other than the POA-POI shift, shot the same groups as my 30P-1. Now I'm really puzzled. I had another stupid cig and thought about the weight difference between the 2 cans. Harmonics? Maybe? I don't hand load and don't fully understand the mumbojumbo talked about in the reloading forum, but I do have a Magneto Speed! (which is the first time I used by the way lol) So I did 10 rounds each; 10 30P-1, 10 Ultra9, 10 unsuppressed. I just shot into the berm and didn't do any groups because that isn't the data I was after. The results are listed below:
30-P1 Ultra9 Un
2684 2687 2676
2702 2688 2690
2685 2697 2686
2708 2695 2684
2692 2696 2694
2683 2680 2689
2699 2699 2707
2695 2708 2667
2695 2710 2684
2705 2693 2694
Avg 2694 Avg 2695 Avg 2687
SD 8.8 SD 9.1 SD 10.7
ES 25 ES 30 ES40
I am not sure 100% what all these numbers mean, but I think I have a good idea. The reason I did this was because people are always talking about how the cans affect FPS vs unsuppressed, "slow the bullet, speed it up, doesn't do anything", and with the different weight of the cans, I figured what the hell it wouldn't hurt to record a few numbers just so they are there and for the smart people here to try and help out.
To my untrained eye, it looks like the numbers from the 2 cans are comparable but I don't understand why the difference in group size between the 2 cans. The pics below are a good average sample of group size for each respective can and round count and not cherry picked to say, "hey look at me with my 2 shot group with both holes touching!". I did shank a few shots as you will see in the pics.
So what gives? Any insight from people that actually know what the hell they are doing with these tools?
EDIT TO ADD:
for reference, the circles are 1"
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