TBAC Suppressor Loctite

[treillw]

I've gotten away without locking the TBAC break onto my rifle for a few years, but now it is stuck in my can.....

Anyway to remove the break without just thread locking it to the barrel and then unscrewing the can? I'd like to tighten the break independently and make sure it's timed properly.

TBAC suggests red loctite fo the break. Makes me a little nervous that it is "permanent". Is it still possible to remove the break if desired? Just shoot it a bunch to heat it up and then remove it??

Thanks!

 

[DIBBS]

@TBACRAY

@Zak Smith

 

[Zak Smith]

If you have a 5/8-24 (or whatever thread) stud, you can use that and a jam nut to remove the can.

Even high temp red is not permanent. You just use a small kitchen butane torch to heat up the brake enough to melt it and then unscrew it.

 

[jackinfl]

@treillw i had my gunsmith spin me up a tool for this purpose. It's a piece of stock that is threaded 5/8×24 and has a nut on it. Thread into the break, spin the jam nut to bottom of break. The bottom section, unthreaded and cut square locks into my vise. All the unlocking force goes to the can as the break is held tightly. Had a few at work that spun off the barrel. Used the correct, recommended red loctite and the problem stopped.
I guarantee TBAC will and has done this for us many times. Great company, hell one of the owners answered above.

 

[strikeeagle1]

Red loctite anaerobic adhesive disintegrates @ 550 deg F. Most mfg. recommend a ceramic based adhesive e.g. Rocksett, which is included in SureFire brakes packaging. Rocksett is stable to ~2,000 deg F. Most brakes / suppressors will never get that hot, although rapid fire / full auto magazine dumps can get the muzzle temp ~900-1,000 deg range. The nice property of Rocksett is that it is easily removed by soaking the muzzle device in warm water first , then applying the brake wrench; no heat application required.

 

[Zak Smith]

Rocksett is no stronger than blue loctite, FYI

 

[strikeeagle1]

^^ The important issue is not strength, rather heat resistance, which results in Loctite bond failures for this application.

 

[Zak Smith]

I have turned off rocksett holding the brake on when trying to remove a stuck can before.

In the 11 cycle socom/surge video for the Dominus, the brake was held on with high temp red.

YMMV.

 

[strikeeagle1]

Again, it's not a adhesive strength issue, it's the heat that is the enemy of defeat when end-user desires a fail safe assembly for their muzzle device applications. Suggest you forward your interesting ideas to Flexbar and Surefire; please post their responses. YMMV.

 

[texas_vet00]

red #272 is what I used for "permanent CB mount in Ultra 7" to make it a DT

ETA: I might want to rethink this approach...

 

[Zak Smith]

I believe my last post explains why high temp red (272) is more than sufficient for retention during extended high temp use (that video shows 2640 rounds fired) and the downside of a lower breakway torque with rocksett. That's a good summary of why we recommend high temp red.

 

[texas_vet00]

Whew! I finally did something right!!!

 

[Huskydriver]

Again, it's not a adhesive strength issue, it's the heat that is the enemy of defeat when end-user desires a fail safe assembly for their muzzle device applications. Suggest you forward your interesting ideas to Flexbar and Surefire; please post their responses. YMMV.

View attachment 7822036

Bro....lol.... You realize OP is asking about a tbac can.... TBAC answered the OP and now you are arguing with tbac on what they should be using because that's what flexbar and surefire is doing lol?????

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Bro....lol.... You realize OP is asking about a tbac can.... TBAC answered the OP and no we you are arguing with tbac on what they should be using because that's what flexbar and surefire is doing lol?????

Strange take for sure.... the manufacturer typically knows what they want used with their product that they make..... hang tight, I'm gonna call up trigger tech and tell them how timney thinks they should clean their trigger....

 

[n2ishun]

Don't use red, don't use blue.
Use this one, works wayyyyy better.

LOCTITE® 290

LOCTITE® 290 is a green, medium-high strength threadlocker designed for the locking and sealing of threaded fasteners. Because of its low viscosity, the product wicks between engaged threads by capillary action and eliminates the need for disassembly prior to application. This makes it ideal for...

www.henkel-adhesives.com

 

[Waorani]

Everybody that's used Rocksett becomes an expert/champion of the product and always mentions soaking in water to release. And most lock on to the name and think it's strong as shit. It is a good product and I use but it's not very strong and you don't have to soak in water to get it off.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Everybody that's used Rocksett becomes an expert/champion of the product and always mentions soaking in water to release. And most lock on to the name and think it's strong as shit. It is a good product and I use but it's not very strong and you don't have to soak in water to get it off.

I've used rockset a few times and neither time did I do anything but break it loose. That's fine btw, but I have used red lock tight since and it's just easier and better imo. I can heat the brake up and remove it if I need to and I've never had any issues with a brake coming loose on a can with it. I don't shoot long strings and really high Temps so I don't know much about how either do in those situations

 

[missed]

I believe my last post explains why high temp red (272) is more than sufficient for retention during extended high temp use (that video shows 2640 rounds fired) and the downside of a lower breakway torque with rocksett. That's a good summary of why we recommend high temp red.

I'm sure these guys have tested everything.

My choice is loctite 272 also.

 

[tenringx]

To get the brake out of the can, hand tighten the can/stuck brake on the barrel. Get a dead blow hammer and give a couple good raps down near the bottom of the can. I’m sure it’s slightly carbon locked on the brake.

 

[TheOE800]

Precision Armament M4 5/8 adapter and a jam nut. Thread into device, tighten jam nut against device, unscrew the 5/8 adapter.

 

[n2ishun]

I'm sure these guys have tested everything.

My choice is loctite 272 also.

Most people haven't a clue that wicking loctite is a thing.

 

[srt-4_uk]

Don't use red, don't use blue.
Use this one, works wayyyyy better.

LOCTITE® 290

LOCTITE® 290 is a green, medium-high strength threadlocker designed for the locking and sealing of threaded fasteners. Because of its low viscosity, the product wicks between engaged threads by capillary action and eliminates the need for disassembly prior to application. This makes it ideal for...

www.henkel-adhesives.com

How is it way better if you start with disassbeled parts anyway?

 

[Snuby642]

I have never had rocksett accidentally loosen.

 

[E. Bryant]

Most people haven't a clue that wicking loctite is a thing.

Sure, and it's useful in a number of applications. But it wouldn't be my first choice for a muzzle device.

 

[missed]

Break away torque on a M10 bolt is 90 in-lb for loctite 290 green wicking, and it's 200 in-lb for 272 red.

 

[1911hombre]

Again, it's not a adhesive strength issue, it's the heat that is the enemy of defeat when end-user desires a fail safe assembly for their muzzle device applications. Suggest you forward your interesting ideas to Flexbar and Surefire; please post their responses. YMMV.

Who here gives two shits about their responses? Stop.

 

[Zak Smith]

I've used 290 before.

But I don't see the breakaway figures you posted

http://tds.henkel.com/tds5/Studio/ShowPDF/243%20NEW-EN?pid=272&format=MTR&subformat=REAC&language=EN&plant=WERCS

http://tds.henkel.com/tds5/Studio/ShowPDF/?pid=290&format=MTR&subformat=REAC&language=EN&plant=WERCS

272 = 23 Nm
290 = 10 Nm

???



ETA-- my bad, I misread the prior post. Anyway, links kept here for reference

 

[E. Bryant]

I see both numbers in the referenced data sheets:

Regardless of which units we're using, I still don't understand why I'd use 290 during the installation of a muzzle device. If for some reason I needed to secure a muzzle device that had previously been installed, sure, if there was a good reason for me to not spend 5-10 minutes to spin it off, install 272, and re-torque.

 

[Commander Shepard]

Break away torque on a M10 bolt is 90 in-lb for loctite 290 green wicking, and it's 200 in-lb for 272 red.

Just for clarity here:

90 in lbs = 10.2 Nm
200 in lbs = 22.6 Nm

So your specs agree with Zak's, sounds like everyone is on the same page.

TLDR loctite 272 FTW.

 

[Zak Smith]

My bad, I misread the prior post.

 

[Zak Smith]

Here's a story. On set screw style gas blocks, I typically put a small dimple in the barrel for them to index, and then use 272. I put a drop into the hole and then screw in the set screw. I had a gas block I did this on, and then successfully removed the screw. But the 272 that had hardened between the bottom inside of the gas block and the barrel was so strong that I had to put the barrel in a vice and use a wooden block and a big hammer to remove the gas block. I am 100% sure just the cured loctite would have held it in place indefinitely, in the absence of the set screw(s).

 

[Arc Light]

Permatex 27200 is similar to loctite 272 and usually available locally and a bit cheaper. It's what I use.

 

[Waorani]

Our newest know-it-all said 290 was wayyyyy better so y'all need to get with the plan!

 

[Midwestside]

The original post takes me back in time to when Jon Addis was on here more frequently
and had just a "couple-three less machines" in his shop making parts:

​

 

[Jackomason]

How tight should you get the brake? I just did my first one last night with red loctite and got it on there pretty dang snug. Using the most medium wrench I have of course.

 

[rayvandervort]

I've gotten away without locking the TBAC break onto my rifle for a few years, but now it is stuck in my can.....

Anyway to remove the break without just thread locking it to the barrel and then unscrewing the can? I'd like to tighten the break independently and make sure it's timed properly.

TBAC suggests red loctite fo the break. Makes me a little nervous that it is "permanent". Is it still possible to remove the break if desired? Just shoot it a bunch to heat it up and then remove it??

Thanks!

350 degrees will break the locktight strength and it prevents corrosion binding if used. I would not hesitate using it.

 

[E. Bryant]

How tight should you get the brake? I just did my first one last night with red loctite and got it on there pretty dang snug. Using the most medium wrench I have of course.

If the manufacturer doesn't spec a torque, then I lean on whatever size combination wrench is required until it feels tight. You're dealing with threads that are similarly sized to wheel lugs, so hand-tight with normal tools isn't going to hurt anything. Don't use a 3ft cheater or beat on the wrench with a deadblow hammer, unless you work at Larue in which case you're just following the work instructions.

 

[Jackomason]

If the manufacturer doesn't spec a torque, then I lean on whatever size combination wrench is required until it feels tight. You're dealing with threads that are similarly sized to wheel lugs, so hand-tight with normal tools isn't going to hurt anything. Don't use a 3ft cheater or beat on the wrench with a deadblow hammer, unless you work at Larue in which case you're just following the work instructions.

Yeah, you're probably right. It was about that 1/8th turn and I used a 12" wrench so it should be good. I guess I'll know when I start shooting.

 

[impactaddict]

I've gotten away without locking the TBAC break onto my rifle for a few years, but now it is stuck in my can.....

Anyway to remove the break without just thread locking it to the barrel and then unscrewing the can? I'd like to tighten the break independently and make sure it's timed properly.

TBAC suggests red loctite fo the break. Makes me a little nervous that it is "permanent". Is it still possible to remove the break if desired? Just shoot it a bunch to heat it up and then remove it??

Thanks!

this happened to me once when I used blue because red loctite scared me. My fix was red loctite brake (w/can still attached) to the barrel . The next morning, the can came off with the brake still attached to the barrel.. aligned pretty well too!

Edit: TBAC Ultra 7

 

[n2ishun]

Our newest know-it-all said 290 was wayyyyy better so y'all need to get with the plan!

Aww, someone's butt hurt.

 

[strikeeagle1]

Everybody that's used Rocksett becomes an expert/champion of the product and always mentions soaking in water to release. And most lock on to the name and think it's strong as shit. It is a good product and I use but it's not very strong and you don't have to soak in water to get it off.

No, don't always need to use water, like prior posting indicated, depends on how much was applied. As to the preferred "expert" method of releasing the adhesive, it's what Rocksett recommends, because unlike others, I actually invested the time to axe them.

Just removed the flash device on this KAC 14.5" ACC upper; Rocksett applied only for ~ 3 threads, which is released with just a proper
wrench / device adapter.

 

[E. Bryant]

Yeah, you're probably right. It was about that 1/8th turn and I used a 12" wrench so it should be good. I guess I'll know when I start shooting.

Note that the 1/8th-turn past hand-tight works well for what I'd call an "average" stack of shims or a crush washer, but it could be a bit much for those cases where no shims are required. A square shoulder against a square shoulder with high-quality threads doesn't offer much compliance.

 

[TheHorta]

Cut the bottom of the suppressor off with a bi-metal Sawzall blade. Grind the brake off and drill it out. Re-tap the threads in the suppressor, then weld the two parts of the suppressor back together. Your suppressor might feel a little loose after this, but it should work fine.

 

[Snuby642]

I always thought that the locking effect of whatever was used on a muzzle device only needed to hold it in place and be heat resistant.

With a reasonable removal procedure.
I think some of these products are overkill and a pain to remove.

 

[Arctic Trigger]

Red loctite anaerobic adhesive disintegrates @ 550 deg F. Most mfg. recommend a ceramic based adhesive e.g. Rocksett, which is included in SureFire brakes packaging. Rocksett is stable to ~2,000 deg F. Most brakes / suppressors will never get that hot, although rapid fire / full auto magazine dumps can get the muzzle temp ~900-1,000 deg range. The nice property of Rocksett is that it is easily removed by soaking the muzzle device in warm water first , then applying the brake wrench; no heat application required.View attachment 7822016View attachment 7822017View attachment 7822018

I love this stuff. Once I switched over, I've never had to go what this guy is going through. Note to self: Don't use too much or else the only way to get the damn brake off later is immersion in hot water for a while.

 

[strikeeagle1]

I love this stuff. Once I switched over, I've never had to go what this guy is going through. Note to self: Don't use too much or else the only way to get the damn brake off later is immersion in hot water for a while.

Note to self: Don't use too much or else the only way to get the damn brake off later is immersion in hot water for a while.

That Sir is the Gospel. Go my people and spread the word.

 

[BamaSE]

Cut the bottom of the suppressor off with a bi-metal Sawzall blade. Grind the brake off and drill it out. Re-tap the threads in the suppressor, then weld the two parts of the suppressor back together. Your suppressor might feel a little loose after this, but it should work fine.

I may have to take your advice given all the Rocksett I poured on the threads to permanently install the Ecco cherry bomb adaptor into my newly Ecco Machine converted AAC 762 SDN6….hope I don’t have to take that muthaphuqa apart