TBI,... who is to blame?

[Gunfighter14e2]

The list is long, as well as short.

Navy SEAL's suicide note before shooting himself in his heart

Lt. David Metcalf took his own life inside a garage at his North Carolina home in 2019, leaving behind a chilling note describing some of the cognitive issues he had been having.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Ichi]

The article does not state this specifically, but the results of the numerous concussive blasts over time can be CTE.

The VA needs to do more and support the soldiers that have spent their lives protecting our country.

Chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE) is a brain disorder likely caused by repeated head injuries.

 

[c1steve]

I work on patients who have had multiple concussions, with symptoms similar to lighter to what the soldiers have experienced. What has worked best is no TV, minimum computer time, plus a cold/low power laser to speed healing. Low Level Light Therapy has been used for years with very good success. Typically point the laser at the brain for 5-20 minutes a day. Some lasers work better than others.

 

[Redlion]

The article does not state this specifically, but the results of the numerous concussive blasts over time can be CTE.

The VA needs to do more and support the soldiers that have spent their lives protecting our country.

Chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE) is a brain disorder likely caused by repeated head injuries.

More like the military/service branches need to ensure that those having or at risk for TBI/CTE are successfully connected to the VA in a warm hand-off.

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

"Who is to blame"?
The scum in DC that dreamt up the money laundromat called The Global War On Terror. The scum that turned it into another nation building program.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

"Who is to blame"?
The scum in DC that dreamt up the money laundromat called The Global War On Terror. The scum that turned it into another nation building program.

What about all those who,... Volunteered,... to run into the fight? I've always been conflicted about that.
All choices have consequences, when you volunteer for service then ZYX training, that is all on the Volunteer and the Volunteer only. If peer pressure or brain washing got you there, its still all on you.

Uncle is very, very good, at brain washing people into doing his bidding, and throwing them away afterward. However at the end of the day, its all still on the Volunteer. Do I feel bad for them bet your ass, but no one forced them to run into the gunfire. One of the reasons DOR or bell ringing is sop in most all specialized schools.

Easy to start wars for profit. Spending to fix the war fighter, gets into the net profit. Business 101 says that is not a sound decision, especially if they are not your children.

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

What about all those who,... Volunteered,... to run into the fight? I've always been conflicted about that.
All choices have consequences, when you volunteer for service then ZYX training, that is all on the Volunteer and the Volunteer only. If peer pressure or brain washing got you there, its still all on you.

Uncle is very, very good, at brain washing people into doing his bidding, and throwing them away afterward. However at the end of the day, its all still on the Volunteer. Do I feel bad for them bet your ass, but no one forced them to run into the gunfire. One of the reasons DOR or bell ringing is sop in most all specialized schools.

Easy to start wars for profit. Spending to fix the war fighter, gets into the net profit. Business 101 says that is not a sound decision, especially if they are not your children.

Brainwashing/propaganda is a powerful tool especially when wrapping it with the flag and patriotism. The government spends millions every year on "think tanks" to come up with the catch phrasing to exploit it. The young are very naive and easily manipulated by these catch words/phrases into doing the bidding. It's indoctrinated into children almost from birth. Much more so than any religion. (To be honest, it is a religion). The religion of patriotism. The 9/11 tower ordeal got a lot of patriotic youth riled up for revenge. Meanwhile the scum in DC already hatched the plan to exploit that anger with the "we need to stop them there so we don't have to deal with them here" slogan.
"Communism" has been used for over a century to manipulate the populace. They are using it now to stay involved in Ukraine and trying to push it further to get involved with Russia on a bigger level. We have generations of people that were raised to hate Russia/ Soviet Union. It's going to be an easy sell. Outside of the attack on Pearl Harbor they used it for getting involved in every conflict we've been in. None of those conflicts were by volunteer forces. Kinda interesting to look back at Vietnam and see that the ones that woke up to the government bullshit were denigrated by the brainwashed. The drug use and drop out lifestyle by the "woke" really helped in adding fuel for the denigrating of them. Their message got overlooked because of it.
Anyway, what they are now calling TBI in the volunteer military was called Shell Shock in those that were drafted.

It would be an interesting conversation to have with you over a beer.

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Anyway, what they are now calling TBI in the volunteer military was called Shell Shock in those that were drafted.

Yea, shell shocked & battle fatigue just morphed into the new catch phrases, TBI, & PTSD.

 

[748rpilot]

Yea, shell shocked & battle fatigue just morphed into the new catch phrases, TBI, & PTSD.

Did they morph into new catch-phrases or do we now simply have better medical understanding and are able to more accurately describe and diagnose conditions?

TBI just means "traumatic brain injury", which just describes a brain affected by physical trauma. When an MMA fighter gets knocked out or concussed, that's a TBI. When a football player "gets hit bell-rung" (or concussed), that's a TBI.

Is it the existence of TBIs that is at issue here, or the more accurate descriptor? Or is umbridge being taken with the expanded set of physical traumas that can cause TBIs?

 

[roostercogburn98]

When an MMA fighter gets knocked out or concussed, that's a TBI. When a football player "gets hit bell-rung" (or concussed), that's a TBI.

There is a small difference. Not all concussions are considered a TBI.

 

[Redlion]

Yea, shell shocked & battle fatigue just morphed into the new catch phrases, TBI, & PTSD.

Shell shock and battle fatigue are the same thing. Both are the same as PTSD. TBI as stated by others, is a brain injury. With that said, a service member or veteran can have either or both.

 

[748rpilot]

There is a small difference. Not all concussions are considered a TBI.

I think that's actually the other way around; concussions are (potentially mild) TBIs but not all TBIs are concussions.

"TBI ranges in degree from severe to mild. The most severe cases may result in immediate or later death of the patient. However, more than 75% of TBIs are mild and referred to as concussion; concussion is also a physical injury to the brain." --American Society of Neuroradiology, https://www.asnr.org/patientinfo/conditions/tbi.shtml

 

[Gunfighter14e2]

Shell shock and battle fatigue are the same thing. Both are the same as PTSD. TBI as stated by others, is a brain injury. With that said, a service member or veteran can have either or both.

Disagree, we had guys that were so sensitive to concussion they would just freeze/ball up at simple gun fire, to the point of even their own on the range. The guys that we called battle fatigued, were walking zombies once behind the wire to the point we always found other things for them to stay behind for. It was really weird as there was no indicators of who it would happen to, or at what point.

 

[Emerson0311]

Sometimes I wonder why an unexpected sharp noise like a kid dropping a fork on the floor is such a trigger of annoyance.

 

[roostercogburn98]

I think that's actually the other way around; concussions are (potentially mild) TBIs but not all TBIs are concussions.

"TBI ranges in degree from severe to mild. The most severe cases may result in immediate or later death of the patient. However, more than 75% of TBIs are mild and referred to as concussion; concussion is also a physical injury to the brain." --American Society of Neuroradiology, https://www.asnr.org/patientinfo/conditions/tbi.shtml

You’re probably correct. My arecansee edumacation is often wrong. Or maybe I’ve had too many head injuries myself

 

[Redlion]

Disagree, we had guys that were so sensitive to concussion they would just freeze/ball up at simple gun fire, to the point of even their own on the range. The guys that we called battle fatigued, were walking zombies once behind the wire to the point we always found other things for them to stay behind for. It was really weird as there was no indicators of who it would happen to, or at what point.

You are welcome to disagree.

 

[MK20]

I now get a 2 day headache every time I have to shoot a Barrett.

I never used to get that prior to a lot of mild to moderate cranial impact and exposure to blasts repeatedly.

 

[flogxal]

Anyway, what they are now calling TBI in the volunteer military was called Shell Shock in those that were drafted.

It would be an interesting conversation to have with you over a beer.

Previously, "shell shock" or "battle fatigue" or "the thousand yard stare."

I had a 2d cousin, saw duty in Vietnam, the experience wrecked him psychologically. He spent time in the psych section of Walter Reed upon return to the states. Even after that, struggled to hold down jobs, struggled to sleep, couldn't relax. I watched all this as a late-teenager (his returning condition) and watched him also over the next couple decades. Just one guy, but I don't think his experience was stand-alone.

 

[lead ƒarmer]

I've been saying for years that PRS/NRL shooters are going to have problems down the road from the obnoxious muzzle brakes that are common. Brake design has advanced to drastically reduce recoil, but at the expense of insane noise and concussive blast. I hope the research linked above continues and we can get definitive answers about the dangers of muzzle blast and other loud noises.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Previously, "shell shock" or "battle fatigue" or "the thousand yard stare."

I had a 2d cousin, saw duty in Vietnam, the experience wrecked him psychologically. He spent time in the psych section of Walter Reed upon return to the states. Even after that, struggled to hold down jobs, struggled to sleep, couldn't relax. I watched all this as a late-teenager (his returning condition) and watched him also over the next couple decades. Just one guy, but I don't think his experience was stand-alone.

It's only very recently that the medical industry fully understood TBI

The original term "shell shock" back from WWI and earlier such as in the Civil War, was probably was applied to what would now be understood as TBI
In those types of wars soldiers were getting their brains battered in from the blast waves of exploding shells and cannons.
People today don't properly appreciate how non-stop and brain battering artillery barrages that went on sometimes for days were.

Back then folks thought it was just "weak men" or "mental illness" because they didn't understand that you could be very badly hurt inside but not be showing wounds outside.

 

[748rpilot]

It's only very recently that the medical industry fully understood TBI

The original term "shell shock" back from WWI and earlier such as in the Civil War, was probably was applied to what would now be understood as TBI
In those types of wars soldiers were getting their brains battered in from the blast waves of exploding shells and cannons.
People today don't properly appreciate how non-stop and brain battering artillery barrages that went on sometimes for days were.

Back then folks thought it was just "weak men" or "mental illness" because they didn't understand that you could be very badly hurt inside but not be showing wounds outside.

It's interesting, or I found it so, that the term TBI actually dates to the 1800s, and shell-shock did not come into use until 1915. And the cause-effect relationship between physical injury to the head and cognitive and/or behavioral impairments was known even a couple hundred years before that. I'm not saying they knew the why, but they noticed that "John gets hit in the head a lot and he doesn't speak well/gets mad easily/doesn't remember anything we tell him."

You're also spot on, IMO, about artillery fire and explosions scrambling guys brains. From what I recall of the more recent research, those consistently exposed to small arms fire show significant evidence of repeat TBI and CTE (Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy). As another poster mentioned, the advent of very effective brakes is likely to increase these effects. It's on here already in different threads, guys talking about they have multi-hour headaches after a range session with a braked rifle. You probably have a mild TBI....

Basically anything that bounces your head and brain around, is not good for you. Dale Jr. retired from NASCAR because he had so many concussions, both more traumatic ones from wrecks and many, smaller ones, or sub-concussive impacts, just from riding the car around the track.

Many youth soccer leagues have banned heading the ball until like 14 yes old or so, due to CTE risk.

I watch a lot of MMA, and love it as a sport, but some of those guys are in for a rough time. Tony Ferguson, Justin Gaethje, Bryce Mitchell had a seizure in the octagon immediately following his last knockout.

Didn't mean to write a novel, I get talkative I guess.

 

[carbonbased]

Yeah, men do the same shit with loud noises, chemical/heavy metals exposure, and breathing in any bad gas/particulate matter.

“Don’t bother me none.”

Yet.

 

[flogxal]

It's interesting, or I found it so, that the term TBI actually dates to the 1800s, and shell-shock did not come into use until 1915. And the cause-effect relationship between physical injury to the head and cognitive and/or behavioral impairments was known even a couple hundred years before that. I'm not saying they knew the why, but they noticed that "John gets hit in the head a lot and he doesn't speak well/gets mad easily/doesn't remember anything we tell him."

You're also spot on, IMO, about artillery fire and explosions scrambling guys brains. From what I recall of the more recent research, those consistently exposed to small arms fire show significant evidence of repeat TBI and CTE (Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy). As another poster mentioned, the advent of very effective brakes is likely to increase these effects. It's on here already in different threads, guys talking about they have multi-hour headaches after a range session with a braked rifle. You probably have a mild TBI....

Basically anything that bounces your head and brain around, is not good for you. Dale Jr. retired from NASCAR because he had so many concussions, both more traumatic ones from wrecks and many, smaller ones, or sub-concussive impacts, just from riding the car around the track.

Many youth soccer leagues have banned heading the ball until like 14 yes old or so, due to CTE risk.

I watch a lot of MMA, and love it as a sport, but some of those guys are in for a rough time. Tony Ferguson, Justin Gaethje, Bryce Mitchell had a seizure in the octagon immediately following his last knockout.

Didn't mean to write a novel, I get talkative I guess.

It's a novel worth reading if you ask me. You are right, anything that causes a jogging of the big grey lump of neural tissue (brain) is a movement-moment. The brain has to stop moving. It does so by slamming into the cranial wall. Like Sonny Bono hitting a tree. The tree impact is not what kills, it is the brain slamming fast into the cranium.

Mountain Bike downhill racers hit the deck fairly often in training and sometimes in race runs. Over the past several seasons the racers have been exercising big caution after concussion or semi-concussion symptoms. Some racers have skipped an entire season of racing to recover from post-concussion symptoms.

External concussive forces, like artillery blasts, cause a similar thing physically if you are near enough to the gun/cannon. And further away, the dBs still are problematic even if the concussive wave is not present.