Teaching children to aim.

[coldboremiracle]

So I bought my six year old a cricket EX17hmr last year, he and I both love shooting it. Being that it is a flattop receiver and no irons, I obviously put a scope on it(simmons3-9rimfire). He does well with it, but I often wonder if I am short changing him by not starting with basic iron sight training and then moving on to scopes.

So I guess the question is, should a person teach one first or the other, and what are the pros and cons of doing it either way or another way completely?

WWLLD?

 

[coldboremiracle]

Re: Teaching children to aim.

Shooter and rifle in question.

 

[IndySSD]

Re: Teaching children to aim.

Well, I'm no LowLight but I'd say you're doing well to get him acclimated to shooting.

I'd say so long as you don't completely skip over iron sight training, that you'll be OK. Personally I learned how to use and had to prove I could effectively and responsibly use both a slingshot and a recurve bow before I was allowed to start shooting .22's ( I believe I was also 6 at this point).

The first .22 I shot was scoped as our primary use was squirrel hunting. I learned how to shoot iron sights a number of years later but I wonder if I would have enjoyed those first few years of plinking bottle caps @ 25-50 yards as much if I were trying it with iron sights? Sadly I fear I may have gotten frustrated and not developed the love affair I currently have with firearms

.

All in all, you know your Son best, do what keeps him interested!

I know personally that I never really loved punching paper, I ALWAYS enjoyed shooting old soda cans, bottle caps and milk jugs full of food coloring more than paper.

Now that AR500 steel targets are pretty easy (affordable) to get, I can say that not many things hold my attention like making my steel targets dance.

 

[Tunanut]

Re: Teaching children to aim.

Hey man, spending time like that with your boy is way more important than what kind of sights he's using. Relaxed, breath control, squeeze, and follow thru doesn't change much with type of sights you're useing. We had a kids shoot this weekend on my range. They really like instant feedback you get from steel. Whatever scrap steel I find becomes a target and they seem to love it. These kids are 12 and can pretty much engage targets out to 500 with any of these rifles, sans the 22. Best to teach them how to use all types of sights, but anytime you spend shooting with your kids shooting is time well spent.

Your kids scope does seem a bit high, some lower rings may help him out some.

 

[WhiskeyWebber]

Re: Teaching children to aim.

My boy is in this pic and it was a great Father-Son day of shooting... Thanks Tunanut! I've just tried to always make shooting fun with an emphasis on safety. Spinning steel targets with .22 seems to never get old. I think they shot over 250 rounds of .22 at that thing! It's amazing how video games have less and less importance now that he has a chance to do the real thing on the weekends.

 

[IndySSD]

Re: Teaching children to aim.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tunanut</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey man, spending time like that with your boy is way more important than what kind of sights he's using. Relaxed, breath control, squeeze, and follow thru doesn't change much with type of sights you're useing. We had a kids shoot this weekend on my range. They really like instant feedback you get from steel. Whatever scrap steel I find becomes a target and they seem to love it. These kids are 12 and can pretty much engage targets out to 500 with any of these rifles, sans the 22. Best to teach them how to use all types of sights, but anytime you spend shooting with your kids shooting is time well spent.

Your kids scope does seem a bit high, some lower rings may help him out some. </div></div>


Man, that's what I'm talking about!

I can't wait for my son to be old enough to do this type of outing.

This looks like a direct scene out of my "Things I plan to do with my Son" dreams. Right up there behind us spending days on the lake chasing fish and out in the woods chasing tails.....

 

[pickpick]

Re: Teaching children to aim.

I have two boys, 3 1/2 and 5. I just got the paper work back on a tac65 suppressor to put on a marlin 22. I plan on taking the 5yr old to the farm with me this summer and let him shoot cans and clays or what ever we see laying around. They have both pulled the trigger on my John Norrell MarkIII and liked it. I'm looking forward to a great summer. So far I have held my ground on not buying a playstation or gamimg system.

 

[The Mechanic]

Re: Teaching children to aim.

You are doing a great job. I think shooting with irons is mandatory period.

 

[Nebraskaboy]

Re: Teaching children to aim.

I think Indyssd is right, I had the same issue when I started taking my boy shooting. He was 9 and I was worried about starting him with iron sights, all i had for him to shoot was a ruger 10/22 with a bsa scope. He had shot bb guns 2 or 3 times with iron sights and done some bow shooting with a small compound bow with no sights and done really well. I still would like to get him on open sights but in less than 15 trips to the range, he shot a group with my .223 rem 5r rifle that does not fit him and shot a 1.5 inch group (.980 without 1 flier) at 100 yards. He and I have a great time. You doing fine and don't fret open sights he will learn them eventually.

 

[Tunanut]

Re: Teaching children to aim.

Coldbore, when my kid was yours age I spend most of my time teaching him firearm safety and range protocol. It's much easier to teach kids to shoot if you're not shutting down for safety violations. I’ve sent some home from my land when they commit repeated safety violations. Their parents were not happy about driving an hour and a half, just to get sent home, but if you ask me, it's their fault for not teaching their kid better.

You're doing just fine.

 

[RollingThunder51]

Re: Teaching children to aim.

Coldbore, tunanut, eye protection that will work with muffs, or go plugs.

You can save the iron site work for pistols. I too think that safety for children starts with a good foundation and active participation in the shooting sports. Your doing great and your children will be safer for it. My daughters pack, as does the wife and I am happy about that. As soon as they are old enough, cans.

Doc has her own rig and spends the little free time she has at the range. She started at about your son's age.

 

[JJRawr]

Re: Teaching children to aim.

I think teaching rifle safety and the fundamentals of shooting are equally as important with iron sights or a scope. You can learn them with either

 

[Tripwire]

Re: Teaching children to aim.

I've taught all six of my kids to shoot....

Didn't take me long to realize that when they are really young it's too easy to over coach them. Safety rules are far more important to instill first and foremost, before actually hitting anything with any degree of precision.

Big targets, close range, lots of encouragement, lots of praise, lots of ammo....is priceless towards an early education. When they get big enough to fully understand what you are trying to tell them about sight picture, and can from memory draw you a sketch of it....then drill, baby drill.

Until then, just making it go bang several dozen times on any given evening goes a LONG LONG way. My oldest turned out to be a freak of nature with a rifle. At four years old he popped a fox squirrel in the brain pan with his little chipmunk rifle......at 50 yards resting the shot over a log.

Lucky? Nah, he's proved himself in spades since then...........

 

[dar1246]

Re: Teaching children to aim.

I started both my son's on 22's at 50 yards. I let them shooot as much they could. Once they got old enough. I took them to rilfes at 100 yards. Then set a goal of 1" group on 5 shots. They could go back to where I shot.

Now my oldest set the Junior National title in FTR 308 at 600 yards. Started teaching my youngest on shooting with mils.

Bottom line keep it fun for them.Steel targets work great for kids. They like the nosie. Good shooting.

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/hitduvVnAPE"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/hitduvVnAPE" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Teaching children to aim.

Here's what I see, almost every occasion I'm at my neighborhood public range, dads with their children involved informally in some sort of trigger pullin' activity. Observation usually reveals the dads, who think think they know how to do it, attempting to show their children how to do it. It's frustrating to watch these fiascoes, the kids being so poorly served by their dads, in spite of the intent. I think the solution is summer marksmanship camp, but, for the dads out there that think they already know how to do it, convincing the dads that such camps are wise is wasted effort.

 

[Tunanut]

Re: Teaching children to aim.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here's what I see, almost every occasion I'm at my neighborhood public range, dads with their children involved informally in some sort of trigger pullin' activity. Observation usually reveals the dads, who think think they know how to do it, attempting to show their children how to do it. It's frustrating to watch these fiascoes, the kids being so poorly served by their dads, in spite of the intent. I think the solution is summer marksmanship camp, but, for the dads out there that think they already know how to do it, convincing the dads that such camps are wise is wasted effort. </div></div>

SS,
What would be the minimum requirement for a dad to teach his son to shoot should be?

Boy Scout Marksmanship merit badge?

Army or Marine Expert badge?


do you have to become a NRA master before you can teach them? or would you suggest just paying one?




OK, I'm just busting your balls, but you come off as a know it all. Some of us don't wear our accomplishments on our sig line, but prefer to show it off on the firing line. Sounds like you see alot of dad's that need marksmanship training themself before working with their kids. When I hear guys talking up their rap, I'll put them on my firing line and point out a 1MOA steel @ 500 and ask them to shoot it standing unsupported. It seperates the real shooters from the bullshooters. "Oh, but tunanut I only shoot prone, or off a bench". "OK that's just great, but my 12 year old can do that. I thought you were a master." FWIW, my kid and I still do classes taught by a variety of teachers and depending when you were at Benning 83-84, you may have seen me. If you ever come down off that high horse in KY and are in the Charlotte area, give me a buzz. I'll pay your fee to teach me and my boy your course on my range.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Teaching children to aim.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tunanut</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here's what I see, almost every occasion I'm at my neighborhood public range, dads with their children involved informally in some sort of trigger pullin' activity. Observation usually reveals the dads, who think think they know how to do it, attempting to show their children how to do it. It's frustrating to watch these fiascoes, the kids being so poorly served by their dads, in spite of the intent. I think the solution is summer marksmanship camp, but, for the dads out there that think they already know how to do it, convincing the dads that such camps are wise is wasted effort. </div></div>

SS,
What would be the minimum requirement for a dad to teach his son to shoot should be?

Boy Scout Marksmanship merit badge?

Army or Marine Expert badge?


do you have to become a NRA master before you can teach them? or would you suggest just paying one?




OK, I'm just busting your balls, but you come off as a know it all. Some of us don't wear our accomplishments on our sig line, but prefer to show it off on the firing line. Sounds like you see alot of dad's that need marksmanship training themself before working with their kids. When I hear guys talking up their rap, I'll put them on my firing line and point out a 1MOA steel @ 500 and ask them to shoot it standing unsupported. It seperates the real shooters from the bullshooters. "Oh, but tunanut I only shoot prone, or off a bench". "OK that's just great, but my 12 year old can do that. I thought you were a master." FWIW, my kid and I still do classes taught by a variety of teachers and depending when you were at Benning 83-84, you may have seen me. If you ever come down off that high horse in KY and are in the Charlotte area, give me a buzz. I'll pay your fee to teach me and my boy your course on my range.


</div></div>

My observation is what it is, an observation. But, back to you, you can hit a one MOA target at 500 yards from the standing position, is that right? I don't think you need any training.

BTW, your perception of me, that I am a know it all, is not justified. First, I do not participate in discussions, unless seeking advice, which are foreign to me, so yes, you can assume I am knowledgeable about the subject here; and, I have an informed opinion about it, but, to say I'm a know it all is unfounded. Second, if seated on my high horse, is a description for the plateau where I reside, you should know from way up here on my horse, I can see what less experienced shooters may not, like some of the dads I alluded to. Less experienced shooters might not observe what I can easily see.

 

[WhiskeyWebber]

Re: Teaching children to aim.

Sterling- I think as long as Dad at the local public range is safe I don't look down the line and try to judge what kind of instruction he's giving his kid. If they are hitting the berm; that's required. If they are hitting the paper; that's a bonus. The most important thing about the whole deal is that kids are spending time with Dad in a focused conversation and activity. Golf driving ranges must drive you crazy.

... and I've seen Tunanut hit steel @500 over and over again standing unsupported. After missing 15 times in a row I decided I need to learn a better standing technique

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Teaching children to aim.

Hit 6 inch steel at 500 standing? O.K., if you say so. Now back to dads and their kids, first, my observation is just that an observation, which you have deemed a judgement. That's your problem not mine. I observe a lot of things on the range as I am alert and don't want to get shot by by a dad, his kids, or anyone else. But, unless there's a safety issue, I don't interfere with dads and their kids, no matter how their training activity, if you can call it that, appears to need attention. For example, just yesterday there was the 40 pound kid being forced to shoot his dads 12 gauge break top shotgun. That kid was really having some fun I bet. There are countless other just as ridiculous stories I could share but I think you get the point. If you don't get the point you won't with any example. So, don't get yer self so worked up. And open your eyes to what's going on at your local range. It's sometimes less than the stereotypical father/son bonding activity.

For dads who know they don't know how to do it and have children who have shown interest in guns, there's plenty of opportunity for those kids to get a good basis of understanding about it all, programs coming to mind: 4 H, Boy Scout Rifle Shooting Merit Badge Program, NRA First Steps, Appleseed Project, State Hunter Safety Class, and CMP clinics.

And, for the dads that indeed do know how to do it, your kids will grow up fast and be gone sooner than you can imagine, so after you've trained em, consider volunteering to train someone else's kids, perhaps getting involved with the programs mentioned in the earlier paragraph. I have done this and I find it to be very rewarding.

 

[Tripwire]

Re: Teaching children to aim.

Kids of your own, Sterling?

Just wondering..........

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Teaching children to aim.

Yes, two; and, although they know how to shoot, both excelled in the Kentucky State Rifle and Pistol Association's Junior Marksmanship program, a qualifier for Ky State Rifle Team consideration, neither of my boy's has time for recreational shooting today. Like many young adults they don't have the incomes for such a luxury; and, their dad is no longer paying for them to have the opportunity to shoot. Instead they play golf, tennis, and work out.

 

[Tunanut]

Re: Teaching children to aim.

Sterling,
I wasn't trying to diminish your accomplishments or knowledge, but rather let you know how you come off on the interweb. I have much respect for your teaching ability and shooting knowledge. Like I said, you're welcome on my range and I'd gladly pay your fee for passing your knowledge to my son. They always listen to other coaches more than their dad anyway.


ps. it is a 5"x6" steel I believe, but I had already shot 50 or so rounds prone at it and had the conditions dialed in. Once I figured my rythm and matched it to my breath, it was on. All with fireforming loads from a 243ai. I was just showing off for WW and his boy. I can't really shoot that good.

 

[TOP PREDATOR]

Re: Teaching children to aim.

usually i through a few cherrios in the toilet and tell 'em to hit them.


but pertaining to shooting, as long as he's doing it, that's the most important thing.

i do believe that getting proficient with iron sights does provide advantages:

1. able to utilize any sighting system (irons on ARs, shotguns, etc)

2. able to understand pistol shooting quicker (front sight aquisition, sight picture, 6:00 holds, etc)

3. able to appreciate what advantages / disadvantages a telescopic sight provides.

whether it's rifles, pistols, or archery equipment, i like to promote using the most simple of setups so that the shooter develops skill without having to rely on technology. but again as long as he's eager to shoot, let him use the scope.

if the oppurtunity comes to get a second hand rifle (maybe even a pellet gun) in the future with open sights, i'd take that oppurtunity to get one. kid's grow up quick these days, he may not get that open sight experience elsewhere.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Teaching children to aim.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tunanut</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sterling,
I wasn't trying to diminish your accomplishments or knowledge, but rather let you know how you come off on the interweb. I have much respect for your teaching ability and shooting knowledge. Like I said, you're welcome on my range and I'd gladly pay your fee for passing your knowledge to my son. They always listen to other coaches more than their dad anyway.


ps. it is a 5"x6" steel I believe, but I had already shot 50 or so rounds prone at it and had the conditions dialed in. Once I figured my rythm and matched it to my breath, it was on. All with fireforming loads from a 243ai. I was just showing off for WW and his boy. I can't really shoot that good. </div></div>

That's real good shooting. I can do stuff like that only if I'm running on all cylinders. Now, when I'm coaching long term courses where the idea is to learn how to put shots in one hole, I usually demonstrate that what I'm saying can actually be done. The students respond well to this sort of thing. That's to say, they try to out-shoot their coach.

 

[Tripwire]

Re: Teaching children to aim.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, two; and, although they know how to shoot, both excelled in the Kentucky State Rifle and Pistol Association's Junior Marksmanship program, a qualifier for Ky State Rifle Team consideration, neither of my boy's has time for recreational shooting today. Like many young adults they don't have the incomes for such a luxury; and, their dad is no longer paying for them to have the opportunity to shoot. Instead they play golf, tennis, and work out. </div></div>

Golf, Tennis, and a Gym Membership takes both a lot of time and quite a chunk of money....just observing the contradiction you put out there.

Who am I to say but it sounds, based purely on your own tone and your comments here and in other stuff I've read, like your boys squirted out from under the possible burden of shooting sports for some reason. Overly demanding coach, expectatations couldn't be met, etc, maybe?

Again, who am I to say, and no offense intended. Maybe others will benefit somehow from our exchange here. Sure sounds like they started out right though.......

 

[notquiteright]

Re: Teaching children to aim.

Sterling-
If I maybe allowed to speak to you in your blunt fact driven style-

You failed in teaching your children.

I cant remember all the grown children who never touch the violin, piano, saddle, ballet slippers, tennis racket because while their parental units taught them to be skillful they sucked all the fun out of it.

You cant honestly say that your boys cant find a pistol range but can a golf course, cant afford to make pistol ammo but can pay for clubs, balls, and green fees....

Now it takes a hellovalot more than technical profiency to be a good instructor. If i was a cynical man your kid's success was more for your basking in the glory than making two more lifetime shooters.

I dont think a father teaching his son to shoot requires Himaster skills, or Himaster ego. many a buck has fallen to ethical hunters who know better than to try a 500 yard standing shot. many a soldier has defended our nation unable to take that 600 yard headshot. Many a homeowner has defended his castle without ever running a timed dipstic pistol course.

I'd much rather hear a young man sitting with his kid saying, "this is the chipmunk rifle my dad started me on. I think you are old enough to come with me the next time I go shooting"

Much rather that than an old man tell us his golfing sons used to shoot pretty good.

But that might be just me, have a good day.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Teaching children to aim.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: notquiteright</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sterling-
If I maybe allowed to speak to you in your blunt fact driven style-

You failed in teaching your children.

I cant remember all the grown children who never touch the violin, piano, saddle, ballet slippers, tennis racket because while their parental units taught them to be skillful they sucked all the fun out of it.

You cant honestly say that your boys cant find a pistol range but can a golf course, cant afford to make pistol ammo but can pay for clubs, balls, and green fees....

Now it takes a hellovalot more than technical profiency to be a good instructor. If i was a cynical man your kid's success was more for your basking in the glory than making two more lifetime shooters.

I dont think a father teaching his son to shoot requires Himaster skills, or Himaster ego. many a buck has fallen to ethical hunters who know better than to try a 500 yard standing shot. many a soldier has defended our nation unable to take that 600 yard headshot. Many a homeowner has defended his castle without ever running a timed dipstic pistol course.

I'd much rather hear a young man sitting with his kid saying, "this is the chipmunk rifle my dad started me on. I think you are old enough to come with me the next time I go shooting"

Much rather that than an old man tell us his golfing sons used to shoot pretty good.

But that might be just me, have a good day.

</div></div>

Your post is as stereotypical as it is trite. Your perspective from afar is, I'm sure, based upon your own family drama.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Teaching children to aim.


Folks, including my sons, gravitate to what appeals to them. My sons prefer golf, tennis, and gym while I pursue shooting sports, hunting, Hi-FI, and photography interests. In matters of recreation, it's all good. I'm glad they have leisure activities that are as wholesome as they are are balanced to their work ethic. What we all enjoy together is our passion for University of Kentucky Basketball. Regarding this thread though, I've encouraged my children to aim high in life, to to their best in any undertaking, and be productive.

 

[Tripwire]

Re: Teaching children to aim.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Regarding this thread though, I've encouraged my children to aim high in life, to to their best in any undertaking, and be productive. </div></div>

Per teaching children to aim, better advice would be very hard to come by.

Kudos to you Sterling, too many parents could care less these days where their kids land on target.....and I'm NOT talking about shooting sports.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Re: Teaching children to aim.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tripwire</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Regarding this thread though, I've encouraged my children to aim high in life, to to their best in any undertaking, and be productive. </div></div>

Per teaching children to aim, better advice would be very hard to come by.

Kudos to you Sterling, too many parents could care less these days where their kids land on target.....and I'm NOT talking about shooting sports. </div></div>

+1

 

[notquiteright]

Re: Teaching children to aim.

Sterling-
again you have an epic fail. It has become clear to me your teaching style is best suited to a captive audience. Unlike the teach a man to fish and for life bit, it appears your boys walked away from your instruction as soon as they could. All early attempts to paint it as once the bribes stopped so did they set aside.

In a day when far more lament the lack of parents spending time with their kids, and FYI passing on a desire for the offspring to succeed as most of the time a parent's approval is one of the biggest modivators and is naturally occuring.

As long as the parent doesnt suck all the fun out of the activity.

My childhood was one of exploration and wonder. I travelled to more states and foriegn countries by age 18 than most in here have done to date. My brother, Dad and I spent hours together be it building a duck blind, practise clays, tennis, football, Lacrosse, sailing, flying, and swimming.

My first memory of shooting is with him using huge remington bolt guns that wieghed damn near what i did and how proudly I carried one to the range. We walked the half mile to the range, seems we walked alot. Had to REALLY want to in order to get to do it.

Your comment about the 500 yard standing shot is assinine and shows your hubris.

MILLIONS of dads teach their kids to drive but never won Daytona

MILLIONS teach their kids to swim but never won a meet

MILLIONS teach their boys to fish but never won a bass tourny.

MILLIONS teach their kids to aim high without ever having a self deluding sig line.

Millions of sons and daughter's fondest memories are of those times. The results maynot have produced flash in the pan shooters like you, but the effort molded the child to be a good citizen nonetheless.

I personally applaud parents who do take time to work/play with their kids. Dont have to be an arrogant Himaster to succeed. Dont have to produce a state level shooter to say they succeeded.

When I found out the let half your air out, hold and be surprized when the rifle goes off was wrong, I didnt look back bitterly at my Dad.

I remembered carrying that rifle as best I could asking if Major, his dad, had taught him to shoot with this rifle. He got an odd smile on his face, a soft look to his eye and said, not on this rifle but it was a 22.

Somehow I dont think kids attending one of your summercamps would take a memory like that away.

Good Luck, something tells me the lack of success you had convincing Dads of the merits of your summercamp came from not wanting to put up with your attitude.

And I dont think thats just me

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Teaching children to aim.

I have no summer camp, summer camp was a suggestion. Other gross distortions and interpretations of my comments, which are as bizarre as they are fanatical, make me wonder about your sanity.

 

[ryhag1]

Re: Teaching children to aim.

Started with the fundamentals and proceeded from there. Ensuring that it was fun and enjoyable. Using the iron sights at first then eventually proceeding to a scope. They still love to shoot and are safe. Objective reached.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Teaching children to aim.

There are a multitude of reasons children should learn how to shoot with an air rifle or .22 fitted with a rear aperture receiver sight and front post sight. With such a sight, which capitalizes on the child's natural ability to both balance and center things, whether the child understands abstracts or not becomes moot. The child will easily center the tip of the front sight in the rear aperture when the child has been told to do it. And, since properly pointing the rifle with consistent sight alignment is the most important aspect of marksmanship, using this type of sight will get any kid off to a good start. Using a scope however is not such a good idea since, even when the scope is adjusted correctly, parallax may preclude recognition for where the barrel is pointed although the reticle/target relationship has been maintained. Teaching a child how to minimize parallax error is difficult because young children can not digest abstracts. The problem is compounded when the instructor does not understand the effect of parallax, or does not grasp the concept.

One more thing, if the child uses a scope sight to shoot at a relatively short distance and at a relatively big target, the child, as well as the inexperienced coach may get the impression that the child has learned something about aiming when the only thing for sure is that the child has come to understand how to get a good hit intuitively. This learning however is not a substitute for basic marksmanship, since the limited skill will not transcribe to an understanding for where the barrel is pointed when shooting beyond distances where intuitive shooting works.

 

[Tripwire]

Re: Teaching children to aim.

Damn, just when there was the faint glimmer of humility......

In my world a "child" is between the ages of 4 and 8, pertaining to "shooting". A natural ability to balance and center things? Wow....at that age we spent a ton of money on band-aids and triple anti-biotic repairing cuts, bumps, bruises, and other random catastrophies due to falls, slips, slides, and other misfortunes of being fearlessly unable to balance well. As far as the centering thing, at that age they are still trying to figure out how to close one freaking eye......

Now, "kids" on the other hand, beyond the age of 8, are where one starts to get serious with shooting school. They're old enough to do a lot of things on their own, including thinking; not to mention cycle actions, hunt along side of dad, and fully understand what is going on when a rifle is aimed and the trigger is pulled.

The older they get the smaller you expect them to aim, VERY simple concept, that. Guess I'm spoiled though having been blessed with smart/able kids, and the deeply rural lifestyle that allows shooting any damn time we please.......which is a LOT.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Teaching children to aim.

Shooting facts are not age dependent. Whether the kid, youngster, child is 6 or 60, the 2 firing tasks are the same: properly point the rifle with consistent sight alignment; and, pull the trigger utilizing smooth trigger control. The peep sight makes learning easier, regardless of age, since it capitalizes on the shooter's ability to naturally center and balance things. Now, since good shooting is more rewarding than not so good shooting; and, since parents are certainly interested in teaching their kids how to do it right, having an understanding for the peep sight's superiority over other iron types might be handy to a parent who is unaware of the peep sight's superiority.

Interestingly, the little Crickett rifle is appropriately fitted with peep sights. This rifle is scaled for the majority of 6 year olds.

BTW, a child's natural ability to center and balance things has already been developed to a very high level by the time they're learning how to walk. And, by the time kids enter kindergarten the ability will allow for good shooting with the peep while good results with alternative irons, which requires focus at multiple depths is not so assured, since it requires an understanding for an abstract concept, as well as the physical abilty to rapidly shift focus.

Now, since this thread is titled "teaching children to aim" and the peep sight is ideal for such teaching, I am glad to bring it to the attention of any here who who did not know it.

 

[Tripwire]

Re: Teaching children to aim.

Guess we'll just muddle along in our ignorance without frettin' all that text book psyco-babble.....and likely on purpose.

Two years/seasons ago he did this, and on his first try....

Because he could do this.......

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/1aLDnpAFWsg"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/1aLDnpAFWsg" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>

I have a rule of thumb: let kids be kids, they tend to grow into big people just fine, if you let 'em.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Re: Teaching children to aim.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Now, since this thread is titled "teaching children to aim" and the peep sight is ideal for such teaching, I am glad to bring it to the attention of any here who who did not know it. </div></div>

I'm listening to what your saying SS, and I do appreciate your insights. My good friend also has a cricket for his son, with iron sights, I think I'll start cross training on both rifles to get all the bases covered.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Teaching children to aim.

One other interesting thing about peeps, the smaller the aperture the greater the depth of field. Having a small aperture can allow focus on the front sight while getting good target definition too. A youngster does not need BTW an understanding of the concept to benefit from it. And, using a small peep, if light conditions allow, a child who has vision problems will see things better, without the aid of prescription eye-wear in some cases. At any rate, the only problem to look out for when teaching aim using peeps is some shooters will look at the peep rather than look through it. Be sure to ask the young shooter what things look like, or have the child practice looking through a pin hole in an index card.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Teaching children to aim.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tripwire</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guess we'll just muddle along in our ignorance without frettin' all that text book psyco-babble.....and likely on purpose.

</div></div>

Well, they say that ignorance is bliss, thanks for the confirmation.

 

[Tigerbikes]

Re: Teaching children to aim.

Last weekend

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/lfR52B7mrXs"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/lfR52B7mrXs" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Teaching children to aim.

I know you're not gonna cut the stock down on that beautiful 40X, so have you thought about just restocking it? That would allow for a proper cheekweld; plus, a brighter sight picture, in addition to a better understanding for alignment/hold perfection.

 

[gruntbull]

Re: Teaching children to aim.

My son is now 15, I had a late start as I was in the raq a few times when he was younger, but I got him started at 11. By 15 he is challenging me, and I used to be an 0931. I think the amount of trigger time you can give a kid is invaluable, I reload and have him shoot a butt ton of 22lr. At 20 per 500 its hard to not get some decent rounds down rng. Before I ever took him on the rng though I had given him about 40 hrs of "classroom" instruction and prac app drills in the house and backyard. And he demonstrated competence with safety and the weapon. I would say those are the building blocks right there. Good understanding of marksmanship and good safety training up front, and then slather it all with trigger time and well that gives them the best chance at realizing their potential. I have a much younger son, that thankfully for him I am out of the military now so I can start much younger than my oldest.

He still has to prove he is competent with safety first, and that he understands the principals of marksmanship which I dont doubt he will do by 6 or 7.

In the end just guide them along and they will do fine. My oldest beat me in a run the gun drill yesterday, I felt the most pride knowing my SON is on par we me. Better so than any student I taught in combat marksmanship, although it was always good to know they were going to the show with more skill than before I sat down on the rng with them.

 

[Tripwire]

Re: Teaching children to aim.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tripwire</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guess we'll just muddle along in our ignorance without frettin' all that text book psyco-babble.....and likely on purpose.

</div></div>

Well, they say that ignorance is bliss, thanks for the confirmation. </div></div>

Maybe you're simply not worth the compliment I paid to you in this thread.

Maybe you didn't see it with your nose stuck so far up in the air, way up there on your high damn horse.....

 

[Tigerbikes]

Re: Teaching children to aim.

Sterling,

Patrick has a rifle he shares with his brothers that sits in a +/- 13" LOP Manners T stock. We just couldn't shoot it that day. There was a match underway at our usual range so we improvised with the 40x on the 22LR only range.

I certainly don't want to teach bad habits, but I didn't want to leave without letting him shoot.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Teaching children to aim.

Where did you get that magnificent rifle?


All,

Starting out with a peep sight, in addition to the card trick I earlier mentioned, you can take some coins: penny, dime, nickel, and quarter, and use them to draw nice circles on paper. Then ask the shooting student to put a dot in the center of each circle. This should be easy. It will confirm the student understands the concept of centering things. After the dots are all in place,draw a post on each circle and then a target behind it to drive home the sight picture concept.

 

[Tunanut]

Re: Teaching children to aim.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Where did you get that magnificent rifle?


All,

Starting out with a peep sight, in addition to the card trick I earlier mentioned, you can take some coins: penny, dime, nickel, and quarter, and use them to draw nice circles on paper. Then ask the shooting student to put a dot in the center of each circle. This should be easy. It will confirm the student understands the concept of centering things. After the dots are all in place,draw a post on each circle and then a target behind it to drive home the sight picture concept. </div></div>

That's similar to the kind of peep sight training I gave my son only I threw in muscle, breath, & trigger control along with sight picture and follow through. Sterling, what do you think about archery as a way of teaching shooting? Is there any contridictions or bad habbits that will translate into poor shooting? While we can't shoot 300 out the back door, we are able to do this daily. Do you think this will help, hurt, or have no effect on his shooting?

 

[Trapshooter12]

Re: Teaching children to aim.

I went out Squirrel hunting with my 25 year old daughter the other day. She was using a 22 with Iron Sights and she couldn't hit shit. She asked me to shoot her rifle and I could hit what I shot at with it. She started shooting my 22 with a Scope on it and couldn't miss.
I told her she needed to take a fine bead with it and showed her how. She then said oh I am using the base of the front sight.

It then occured to me that I never taught her how to shoot Irons.

My Suggestion is to start young ones out on a BB Gun or a Pellet rifle with Iron Sights and then as they start figuring out how to hit things start increasing the distance of the target they shoot at.

I am 50 years old now but when I was around 7 years old the epiphany (SP) of Shooting/Long range shooting was when I told my Uncle about shooting at birds and not being able to hit them. He then explained hold over.

I still remember the first bird I shot using hold over with my Daisy BB Gun.

 

[dar1246]

Re: Teaching children to aim.

I think archery is similiar. THe concept of follow through is in rifle and bow. Mostly the teaching of a kid is to teach to pay attention to your techinque.

With a bow, holding your bow until you see your hit. Droping your bow before the hit will cause the shot to be off.

If you can get one fundamental down on bow, rilfe or pistol. This allows you to translate to the next lesson.

On shooting long range. One lesson I taught was shooting on 3 power out to 800 yards. This helps will the mental concept of I need a high mag scope to shoot that far. Next lesson, Giving the 308 with a 100 yard zero and have them shoot out to 600 yards with no dope. This will help them spot their shoots and turn the turrets for correction.

Remember kids don't have boundaries on how far it is, unless you set them. They are open minded to learn for the most part.

 

[cinosbus]

Re: Teaching children to aim.

I would say that it doesn't matter.