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Rifle Scopes Tell the truth

Bubb

Bubb

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Dec 18, 2007
867
3
50
Pa, York co. Dover
#1
1. Nikon Monarch X 4-16x50 $999.95 2. Zeiss Conquest 4.5-14X50 rp Z800 $924.50 3. Swaroski 73 3-10x42 BRX $899.00 4. Bushnell 6500 2.5-16x42 $749.99 5. Leupold VX3 30mm 4.5-14x40 $679.95 6. Viper Vortex pst 4-16.x50 $699.95 or $849.95 in FFP This will be going on a 20" APA .308 I think these scopes represant the BEST options for scopes under 1K and have options I like. Without going $$$ crazy. Just wonder what you guys think of them? Some where ideas form you guys and some where ones I was looking at. This fourm is a optical picky bunch, but honest group!!! I DO hold in high reguards what you say. Im not on this site to spread shit but learn. Even if I go off on a tangent once in a while. No one should drink and post, ever! You all have been honest and helpful. I couldn't ask for more! Now please pick my list apart and give me your thoughts! Which would you buy?
 
#3
Re: Tell the truth

the zeiss or swarovski. i personally use a zeiss and have used friends swaro's and feel that those two are the cream of the crop for the list you posted. all of them are good but i would take one of those two.
 
#4
Re: Tell the truth

I tell ya this list isn't made in hast! This is hard shopping here! Looking at features and glass and staying in a given range of price! Personaly for features the two that I like are the Vortex pst and the Zeiss Conquest. I really like the rapid z 800 retical on the zeiss. But lit ret zero stop on pst are nice too plus matching ret and knobs???
 
#5
Re: Tell the truth

Just make sure the scope you pick has the elevation you need to shoot out as far as you need (usually 50moa of total elevation travel to shoot out to 1000 yards, and for that you will need a 20moa rail). Also make sure you get easily adjustable turrets. And finally, you want a reticle that has either mil or moa tic marks so you can hold over for elevation and windage.

It's not just about quality of glass, it's about the adjustment features. If you can get mil/mil or moa/moa, zero stop and "high speed" (many clicks per turn) turrets that is good also.

I do have experience with Nikon scopes and can tell you that Nikon is doing a good job with their very clear and crisp glass. However, you will get mil reticle and moa turrets with Nikon, which will work but is less than ideal. No zero stop or high speed turrets either.

The Viper Vortex PST specs out the best of the group, but is just starting to ship and has spotty reliability.
 
#6
Re: Tell the truth

What is the intended purpose of your scope choice? That will be key in the decision.

Also, as an FYI...Swarovski doesn't have a perfect track record in repeatable adjustments for the type of shooting most of us here do. Great glass isn't everything.
 
#7
Re: Tell the truth

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sniperaviator</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just make sure the scope you pick has the elevation you need to shoot out as far as you need (usually 50moa of total elevation travel to shoot out to 1000 yards, and for that you will need a 20moa rail). Also make sure you get easily adjustable turrets. And finally, you want a reticle that has either mil or moa tic marks so you can hold over for elevation and windage.

It's not just about quality of glass, it's about the adjustment features. If you can get mil/mil or moa/moa, zero stop and "high speed" (many clicks per turn) turrets that is good also.

I do have experience with Nikon scopes and can tell you that Nikon is doing a good job with their very clear and crisp glass. However, you will get mil reticle and moa turrets with Nikon, which will work but is less than ideal. No zero stop or high speed turrets either.

The Viper Vortex PST specs out the best of the group, but is just starting to ship and has spotty reliability.</div></div> Spotty reliability... Okay I'll take that into account, but they do have one of if not the BEST customer service and warentys?
 
#8
Re: Tell the truth

After seeing and handling the PST at Shot show I would look for a different option, not very impressed. Has nice features but feels really cheap, but everyone has an opinion and its just mine.
 
#9
Re: Tell the truth

Out of that group it would come down to Zeiss or the Swaro. I will let you know which is the better of the two, I've had a few conquest's and I have a Z3 3-10X42 BRH on the way from Euro Optic. I have no doubt the glass of the Swaro is going to be better but I'm just hoping the reticle is as functional as the Rapid Z reticle's.
 
#12
Re: Tell the truth

We all have our favorites, mine being Vortex,

Quality at it best especially when you look at what your investing into, the job you expect it to perform and the service behind the name, if there’s an issue it gets taken care of. I also like the fact that if I sell the scope to a friend that the warranty stays with the product for life, even if he in turns sells it. As long as you can send it in it’s covered no matter how far it fell.

Like everyone else, I’m not a fan of having to send something in for a repair and I have been very lucky with all the Vortex products that I use and abuse and depend on for service but it’s good to know that if needed you got the company taking care of it.

The PST had a few glitches in its early release last year and the new production units being shipped as we speak have the corrections and quality control that we all expect with in reason.


Just my opinion
 
#13
Re: Tell the truth

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bubb</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1. Nikon Monarch X 4-16x50 $999.95 2. Zeiss Conquest 4.5-14X50 rp Z800 $924.50 3. Swaroski 73 3-10x42 BRX $899.00 4. Bushnell 6500 2.5-16x42 $749.99 5. Leupold VX3 30mm 4.5-14x40 $679.95 6. Viper Vortex pst 4-16.x50 $699.95 or $849.95 in FFP This will be going on a 20" APA .308 I think these scopes represant the BEST options for scopes under 1K and have options I like. Without going $$$ crazy. Just wonder what you guys think of them? Some where ideas form you guys and some where ones I was looking at. This fourm is a optical picky bunch, but honest group!!! I DO hold in high reguards what you say. Im not on this site to spread shit but learn. Even if I go off on a tangent once in a while. No one should drink and post, ever! You all have been honest and helpful. I couldn't ask for more! Now please pick my list apart and give me your thoughts! Which would you buy? </div></div>

I guess if you want the truth, then you won't mind if it hurts a little:

Nobody could could possibly answer your question, without knowing what in the hell you want to do with your scope. You've got 1" tube scopes, mixed with 30mm Tubed scopes. You got scopes with BDC's and scope's without BDC's. You've got SFP scopes and FFP scopes. You've got scopes with turrets, and a Swaro without. And you have scopes with matching turrets and reticle and those that don't. You have scopes with less than 50 MOA of adjustment, and scopes with over 80 MOA.

In other words your all over the friggen map. First, what uses and applications are you going to use scope for: Hunting, tactical, benchrest, and ranges to be reached et al. Pick a reticle: BDC, MIL based, MOA based, or straight hunting duplex type. Pick one tube size a 1", 30mm 34mm, or 35MM. Define your elevation needs. Define your turret needs, as in yes or no.

In short, you don't have a list of scopes to fill a need, you just asked us to evaluate a scope catalog, without mentioning the intended target.

Good Luck,

Bob







 
#14
Re: Tell the truth

B<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BobinNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bubb</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1. Nikon Monarch X 4-16x50 $999.95 2. Zeiss Conquest 4.5-14X50 rp Z800 $924.50 3. Swaroski 73 3-10x42 BRX $899.00 4. Bushnell 6500 2.5-16x42 $749.99 5. Leupold VX3 30mm 4.5-14x40 $679.95 6. Viper Vortex pst 4-16.x50 $699.95 or $849.95 in FFP This will be going on a 20" APA .308 I think these scopes represant the BEST options for scopes under 1K and have options I like. Withoutgoing $$$ crazy. Just wonder what you guys think of them? Some where ideas form you guys and some where ones I was looking at. This fourm is a optical picky bunch, but honest group!!! I DO hold in high reguards what you say. Im not on this site to spread shit but learn. Even if I go off on a tangent once in a while. No one should drink and post, ever! You all have been honest and helpful. I couldn't ask for more! Now please pick my list apart and give me your thoughts! Which would you buy? </div></div>

I guess if you want the truth, then you won't mind if it hurts a little:

Nobody could could possibly answer your question, without knowing what in the hell you want to do with your scope. You've got 1" tube scopes, mixed with 30mm Tubed scopes. You got scopes with BDC's and scope's without BDC's. You've got SFP scopes and FFP scopes. You've got scopes with turrets, and a Swaro without. And you have scopes with matching turrets and reticle and those that don't. You have scopes with less than 50 MOA of adjustment, and scopes with over 80 MOA.

In other words your all over the friggen map. First, what uses and applications are you going to use scope for: Hunting, tactical, benchrest, and ranges to be reached et al. Pick a reticle: BDC, MIL based, MOA based, or straight hunting duplex type. Pick one tube size a 1", 30mm 34mm, or 35MM. Define your elevation needs. Define your turret needs, as in yes or no.

In short, you don't have a list of scopes to fill a need, you just asked us to evaluate a scope catalog, without mentioning the intended target.

Good Luck,

Bob







</div></div> Bob your right! I was looking at power range and retical, then price. Intended use hunting, target, and a tatical match for fun if I get good enough. Caliber is .308 and in Pa range isn't something we have lots of. Most all shots will be under 400 and thats far around here. But I plan on finding and working on that. I listed the scopes with BDC reticals cause I think it would be fast and they have wind hold built in? Some of the scopes didn't have those avilibe just mildot? I like the Kiss system and I think the only one (bushnell) is moa/mill so that would be last on my list, but it had great power range. I also would get any of these scopes till I had a chance to finger them myself. On monday Im going to outdoor show, Euro optics will be there. Some of these will on his tabel the rest will be at the show somewhere. Getting to see the reticals and feel the turrets make the world of diffence. But in the end so does a company willing to stand behind there stuff. I just cant wait to get my gun and get shooting.
 
#15
Re: Tell the truth

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sniperaviator</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The Viper Vortex PST specs out the best of the group, but is just starting to ship and has spotty reliability. </div></div>


How pray tell does a scope that's just starting to ship already have spotty reliability?

I handled one at SHOT and for the money it seems like the obvious choice if the internals hold up. After speaking with their engineer there I've no doubt they are 100% behind that product, and that it'll be a huge win for the market.

It's not going to stand up to the razor, but it comes in at less than half the price.
 
#16
Re: Tell the truth

If 400 yards is your max most of the time, give the SS 3x9x42 a good hard look. No frills, but built solid, great warranty, plenty of mag for 400 yds, mil/mil, FFP, 30mm tube. It does not have illumination though. It has been around awhile and has a proven track record. There has not been many, if any, bad things that I've seen, heard or read about the SS. It's a heck of a value for $540 - that with the SSHIDE discount code.

Just one guys opinion - I like my SS.
 
#18
Re: Tell the truth

hey bubb, i dont have any of the scopes ur considering, but ive got a premier and a pile of super snipers. we will be goin up to the range in mifflin pa to shoot soon, and i see ur just south of harrisburg. if ur interested ill let u know when we r heading up there and u can check out what me and my friends use anyways. the range goes just over 1k, and weve got steel plates all the way out. weve also got a couple targets we can move around to shoot unknown distance as well.

granted other than the premier we are old school fixed power guys, one of my shootin buddies has an older PR modified loopy also

we might try to convert u to the fixed 10x way of thinkin hehe...back when i had variables on my huntin scopes i never changed the magnification, and after tryin a few 'budget' feature laden scopes, and having all of them fail(none of them r on ur list btw) i finally went w super snipers on everything, and havent had any issues hunting anything from groundhogs to whitetails. i will say the crosshairs r a little thick for shootin itty bitty groups though..

anyways shoot me a pm if ur interested

lear
 
#20
Re: Tell the truth

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jolly roger</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Check out the SWFA SS 3-9x42, too.</div></div>
I'm with this or with finding a good used Tactical Leupold LR (Long range)or a newer Mark 4 (same scope) with M-1 knobs and 1/4 MOA adjustments
If you have to have new then I would choose the SS meantioned above. I had the fixed 10 SS and I loved it on top of a PSS Remington 308 24" bbl. Good scope for the money.
......SmokeRolls
 
#22
Re: Tell the truth

Bubb,

Bob is spot on. I just ordered the Vortex PST for my 6.5x284 for long range shooting.

If I were you and shooting a .308 at under 500 yards, I'd take a hard look at the Bushnell 6500 2.5-16x42. I just purchased one for my Remington .308 for ~$550, so there are some deals out there if you look.

Good Shooting

Rick
 
#26
Re: Tell the truth

All your answers are here:
<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/zNo7yLPHbE0"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/zNo7yLPHbE0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
 
#28
Re: Tell the truth

I would personally go with the vortex viper pst ffp. First of all the scope has the best specs of all of them. Also, from what ive heard/seen in pictures (i know pictures dont always accurately depict things) the pst has glass that is better than all of them and perhaps on par with a leupold mark 4. I would have to admit that there have been a few issues but keep in mind that the issues always come out before the positive review do since people who are happy are much slower to speak. However, they do have the best customer service out there and if ANYTHING goes wrong, they will fix it immediately and for free. Plus, if this was to be the case, your scope is hand assembled in wisconsin which might even mean that you get a theoritically better scope. Finally, i think that the biggest reason to get the viper pst is that you can get mil mil or moa moa where as its extrememly hard to get other places without spending well over a grand. Some people have done review on the PST here on the hide and i have heard almost all very good things. Just my opinions, i have mine on order and will try to do a review of it when i get it.
 
#29
Re: Tell the truth

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bubb</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I could get a rapid Z800 retical in a 3-15x50 viper pst I would be done looking! But since I can't I have to weigh options of diffent scopes? </div></div>

I have a 4.5-14 with Z800 and I've found it to be a great scope. I like the reticle but I'm in Montana and use it for longer range hunting. If you are hunting at closer ranges it might be more than you need, and you might be disappointed in it as a target scope because it's got fairly thick crosshairs.
 
#31
Re: Tell the truth

For that particular setup, I would be leaning toward the Zeiss. I have looked through a number of VX3's lately and the glass quality to me sucks monkey nuts. However, lots of folks continue to buy them, so I may be out in the weeds here. Mark 4's are obviously much clearer, but may be out fo your price range. I know, I know...clarity is not the only thing to consider here. I've read the sticky. However, for me it is still important, especially if I were looking to drop this kind of coin.
 
#32
Re: Tell the truth

I really like my PST FFP, 1st gen reviewed here I also own two Nikon tactical's in the 2.5-10x flavor. The PST is more convenient with the built in features, the glass quality is close but favors the Nikon. I prefer the feel and heft of the Nikon as well. But the Nikon is not a 900 dollar scope. I have lucked out and found used models to purchase in the 5-6 hundred dollars range and that is about what I feel they are worth/should be priced at.

If I were to be buying new today for the reasons you state I would look close at the PST non-ffp unless the extra cash was not going to be missed.

Now I have not been to a tac-match yet... and as I understand them, a FFP would be an advantage there. But in the hunting field and general 1000 yard target practice (I have about 5-600 rounds down range on the PST between 300y-1000y) I have not really needed a FFP.

The Nikons have held up well and until the PST's came out they were my scope of choice when not behind a Nightforce.


I can't give you any direction on the Zeiss or Swaroski other than their reputation. If you go with these make sure the model you choose has enough internal elevation for both 100y and how ever far you wish to shoot too. A 20, 30, etc moa rail is a good idea with most scopes anyway...
 
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