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Teludyne Tech StraightJacket
- Thread starter Oodin
- Start date
Re: Teludyne Tech StraightJacket
They are right down the street from me. I have a buddy that swears by them. I have no experience with them, but I'll bug my friend and see if he can educate me better.
They are right down the street from me. I have a buddy that swears by them. I have no experience with them, but I'll bug my friend and see if he can educate me better.
Re: Teludyne Tech StraightJacket
So what is it? muzzle brake? I read the about page and it only said how good it was not what it did
So what is it? muzzle brake? I read the about page and it only said how good it was not what it did
Re: Teludyne Tech StraightJacket
Looks as if they have surrounded the barrel with a fluid jacket?
Looks as if they have surrounded the barrel with a fluid jacket?
Re: Teludyne Tech StraightJacket
My understanding is it's a sleeve that fits over the entire existing barrel which includes a muzzle brake.
My understanding is it's a sleeve that fits over the entire existing barrel which includes a muzzle brake.
Re: Teludyne Tech StraightJacket
There's an article on this in SGN now.
It's a stainless steel jacket fitted over the barrel with a proprietary material in between the barrel and the jacket.
Skeptical, the author sent the shittiest rifle he had to them. It turned a beat up mosin nagant into a sub-moa rifle in the article.
So far the testing I saw was to take a non-accurate rifle and make it accurate. I want to see it take a 3/4 minute rifle to the next level.
--Fargo007
There's an article on this in SGN now.
It's a stainless steel jacket fitted over the barrel with a proprietary material in between the barrel and the jacket.
Skeptical, the author sent the shittiest rifle he had to them. It turned a beat up mosin nagant into a sub-moa rifle in the article.
So far the testing I saw was to take a non-accurate rifle and make it accurate. I want to see it take a 3/4 minute rifle to the next level.
--Fargo007
Re: Teludyne Tech StraightJacket
Petersen's Rifle Shooter newest issue has an article on these guy's. Sounds very interesting, a Buddy of mine is having one of his barrels done. What they are basically doing is sleaving your barrel with aluminum, Stainless Steel or titanium. By doing this it makes the barrel very stiff (less harmonics). The owner also told my friend that there is zero mirage even after 50 rounds straight. In the PRS magazine article the owner fired a ton of rounds through the rifle staight then pressed the barrel to his face to show the cooling properties. To me it sounds similar to carbon-wrapping but without the rotational stress of the application to the barrel. Lothar Walther has aluminum sleaved barrels on their web too.
Z
Petersen's Rifle Shooter newest issue has an article on these guy's. Sounds very interesting, a Buddy of mine is having one of his barrels done. What they are basically doing is sleaving your barrel with aluminum, Stainless Steel or titanium. By doing this it makes the barrel very stiff (less harmonics). The owner also told my friend that there is zero mirage even after 50 rounds straight. In the PRS magazine article the owner fired a ton of rounds through the rifle staight then pressed the barrel to his face to show the cooling properties. To me it sounds similar to carbon-wrapping but without the rotational stress of the application to the barrel. Lothar Walther has aluminum sleaved barrels on their web too.
Z
Re: Teludyne Tech StraightJacket
Also of note the Owner of Teludyne is a former Sniper, Army I think the article said.
Z
Also of note the Owner of Teludyne is a former Sniper, Army I think the article said.
Z
Re: Teludyne Tech StraightJacket
I’m certainly no expert for sure, but I just read a detailed write-up on this “straight jacket” and there was a photo of a man touching his face against the barrel of a rifle that had been fired repeatedly and it didn’t burn him. I figure if the heat isn’t coming out, then some insulating property must be keeping the heat in.
That leads me to what could only be my next logical question – how will keeping the heat sealed in affect throat erosion?
I thought that over-heating a rifle barrel leads to increased wear and erosion? It was my understanding that keeping a barrel as cool as possible would result in the longest possible service life. I’ve even seen barrels made with cooling fins – so this concept seems quite the opposite to me. Am I missing something here?
I’m certainly no expert for sure, but I just read a detailed write-up on this “straight jacket” and there was a photo of a man touching his face against the barrel of a rifle that had been fired repeatedly and it didn’t burn him. I figure if the heat isn’t coming out, then some insulating property must be keeping the heat in.
That leads me to what could only be my next logical question – how will keeping the heat sealed in affect throat erosion?
I thought that over-heating a rifle barrel leads to increased wear and erosion? It was my understanding that keeping a barrel as cool as possible would result in the longest possible service life. I’ve even seen barrels made with cooling fins – so this concept seems quite the opposite to me. Am I missing something here?
Re: Teludyne Tech StraightJacket
I saw the same write ip in Rifle Shooter that was mentioned above. Would it be possible that the coasting serves a some type of heat sink and that it transfers the heat away faster than steel does keeping it and the barrel cooler?
JCM
I saw the same write ip in Rifle Shooter that was mentioned above. Would it be possible that the coasting serves a some type of heat sink and that it transfers the heat away faster than steel does keeping it and the barrel cooler?
JCM
Re: Teludyne Tech StraightJacket
Sounds like a god idea but would like a lot more info before getting one.
Sounds like a god idea but would like a lot more info before getting one.
Re: Teludyne Tech StraightJacket
After reading it, it sounds like an epoxy of some sort that sets up between the sleeve and the barrel, as they refer to it "hardening."
Interesting concept. I've seen the tensioned barrels on unlimited class guns, heard of but never seen the liquid cooled barrels, and this seems to be a compibination of both.
What they don't say is whether or not it will out-shoot a solid 1.25 inch straight taper barrel.
Also, I couldn't find a weight listed. I'm sure at least the aluminum version is lighter than a 1.25 inch straight taper SS barrel, but the SS version can't be that much lighter.
And while the EXTERIOR of the jacket may not be getting hotter that says one thing to me-more residual heat on the interior of the barrel. And it would be insulated, so it will hang around longer. That is particularly critical on the big magnums.
I guess I would want to know what the weight is. People run the pencil barrels for hunting. That is where this would be the most beneficial. Barrels with lessened rigidity. But if you had a pencil barreled hunting rifle, why would you add the weight of the "Straight Jacket?" Seems counter intuitive.
I'd love to hear a review from a reputable member here.
After reading it, it sounds like an epoxy of some sort that sets up between the sleeve and the barrel, as they refer to it "hardening."
Interesting concept. I've seen the tensioned barrels on unlimited class guns, heard of but never seen the liquid cooled barrels, and this seems to be a compibination of both.
What they don't say is whether or not it will out-shoot a solid 1.25 inch straight taper barrel.
Also, I couldn't find a weight listed. I'm sure at least the aluminum version is lighter than a 1.25 inch straight taper SS barrel, but the SS version can't be that much lighter.
And while the EXTERIOR of the jacket may not be getting hotter that says one thing to me-more residual heat on the interior of the barrel. And it would be insulated, so it will hang around longer. That is particularly critical on the big magnums.
I guess I would want to know what the weight is. People run the pencil barrels for hunting. That is where this would be the most beneficial. Barrels with lessened rigidity. But if you had a pencil barreled hunting rifle, why would you add the weight of the "Straight Jacket?" Seems counter intuitive.
I'd love to hear a review from a reputable member here.
Re: Teludyne Tech StraightJacket
I seem to remember from my motor head days abt a product that some guys would fill the block with instead of water. It kept the dragsters from overheating during runs. can't remember the name, m JAG.s may carry it. MM
I seem to remember from my motor head days abt a product that some guys would fill the block with instead of water. It kept the dragsters from overheating during runs. can't remember the name, m JAG.s may carry it. MM
Re: Teludyne Tech StraightJacket
http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/extreme-accuracy-makeover-the-teludyne-tti-tech-straightjacket/
The jacket is pulling heat away from the barrel and since aluminum cools faster than steel you can touch it. Interesting concept. I may have to give it a try.
They have suppressor adapters too.
http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/extreme-accuracy-makeover-the-teludyne-tti-tech-straightjacket/
The jacket is pulling heat away from the barrel and since aluminum cools faster than steel you can touch it. Interesting concept. I may have to give it a try.
They have suppressor adapters too.
Re: Teludyne Tech StraightJacket
This is interesting. The straight jacket is actually an old idea. Check out US patents number 1,401,010 and more recently filed (in 1977) 4,211,146. Both describe sleeved barrels. 1,404,010 describes a liquid between the barrel and the sleeve.
When it comes to rifle accuracy, this actually illustrates how stagnant the big names in the firearms industry have been over the years. I find it surprising that major manufacturers have not picked up on this long ago. Barrel vibration has been pretty well understood for a long time and cooling barrels with a jacketed system is nearly as old as the machine gun. The viscosity of a liquid used for cooling will effectively damp the vibration of the barrel/jacket system. Bradley teaches the use of a sleeve to tension a barrel in order to increase its natural frequency, in a way similar to tensioning a guitar string. He also teaches that the structurally efficient sleeve increases the rigidity or the barrel/sleeve system without a commensurate increase in mass. He's probably right although this warrants an FEA analysis to accurately determine magnitude of the change.
I think that the real advantage of fluid-filled jackets may be the potential weight savings made possible by implementing this technology, however old it may be, in new designs with new materials. A light weight, thermally managed, damped, low amplitude barrel is possible.
This concept illustrates yet another point. If it works, and I believe that it probably does, it may prove that action blue printing, cut versus button rifling, lug lapping, etc doesn't really matter. I'm not saying that new actions shouldn't be high precision machines and that best practice should not be adhered to. But I am saying that in the end, external ballistics aside, its the location of the muzzle at the moment the bullet exits that matters most. Harold Vaughn, engineer and author of rifle accuracy facts, knew this. The focus should not be on whether the barrel was cut rifled or button rifled, it should be on the design of the barrel.
This is interesting. The straight jacket is actually an old idea. Check out US patents number 1,401,010 and more recently filed (in 1977) 4,211,146. Both describe sleeved barrels. 1,404,010 describes a liquid between the barrel and the sleeve.
When it comes to rifle accuracy, this actually illustrates how stagnant the big names in the firearms industry have been over the years. I find it surprising that major manufacturers have not picked up on this long ago. Barrel vibration has been pretty well understood for a long time and cooling barrels with a jacketed system is nearly as old as the machine gun. The viscosity of a liquid used for cooling will effectively damp the vibration of the barrel/jacket system. Bradley teaches the use of a sleeve to tension a barrel in order to increase its natural frequency, in a way similar to tensioning a guitar string. He also teaches that the structurally efficient sleeve increases the rigidity or the barrel/sleeve system without a commensurate increase in mass. He's probably right although this warrants an FEA analysis to accurately determine magnitude of the change.
I think that the real advantage of fluid-filled jackets may be the potential weight savings made possible by implementing this technology, however old it may be, in new designs with new materials. A light weight, thermally managed, damped, low amplitude barrel is possible.
This concept illustrates yet another point. If it works, and I believe that it probably does, it may prove that action blue printing, cut versus button rifling, lug lapping, etc doesn't really matter. I'm not saying that new actions shouldn't be high precision machines and that best practice should not be adhered to. But I am saying that in the end, external ballistics aside, its the location of the muzzle at the moment the bullet exits that matters most. Harold Vaughn, engineer and author of rifle accuracy facts, knew this. The focus should not be on whether the barrel was cut rifled or button rifled, it should be on the design of the barrel.
Re: Teludyne Tech StraightJacket
Corrected sentence below. I hit submit accidentally before I was done editing my post.
Harold Vaughn, engineer and author of <span style="text-decoration: underline">Rifle Accuracy Facts</span>, knew this. The focus should not be on whether the barrel was cut rifled or button rifled. It should be on the design of the barrel.
Corrected sentence below. I hit submit accidentally before I was done editing my post.
Harold Vaughn, engineer and author of <span style="text-decoration: underline">Rifle Accuracy Facts</span>, knew this. The focus should not be on whether the barrel was cut rifled or button rifled. It should be on the design of the barrel.
Re: Teludyne Tech StraightJacket
There is a thread started on snipercentral.com from TheodoreKaragias(Karagias on SC) this morning concerning the appeal of this TT'sleeve which I answered their also.I stated the fact that sleeving is obviously not new.Sleeving per military application on machine guns(barrels that are run hot needing the system to cool it down) and bolt-rifles for tactical use are different beasts.The accurate rifle is going to have a heavy contoured barrel and less shots put down the tube relatively speaking vs. mg, IMHO if the rifle was shooting 600+rounds per minute then maybe it should be cooled down too.I'd like to personally see a heavy barreled .5moa ragged hole puncher put this TT sleeve on and post better groups.And as far as heat is concerned,if the heat isn't coming off or out of the barrel,it's going to be"cycling" the heat around the barrel,heat doesn't just disappear unless no more heat(energy)is being created,it needs to escape somehow.Just my .02cents,but I'd like to see them prove me wrong,I too like new concepts but if they aren't proven with apples to apples comparisons,and they only offer their sleeve with a integrated muzzle brake(a whole other varible on accuracy in it self)it's going to be hard to make alot of believers from it.My eyes are open though.Goodshootin'
~Reagan
There is a thread started on snipercentral.com from TheodoreKaragias(Karagias on SC) this morning concerning the appeal of this TT'sleeve which I answered their also.I stated the fact that sleeving is obviously not new.Sleeving per military application on machine guns(barrels that are run hot needing the system to cool it down) and bolt-rifles for tactical use are different beasts.The accurate rifle is going to have a heavy contoured barrel and less shots put down the tube relatively speaking vs. mg, IMHO if the rifle was shooting 600+rounds per minute then maybe it should be cooled down too.I'd like to personally see a heavy barreled .5moa ragged hole puncher put this TT sleeve on and post better groups.And as far as heat is concerned,if the heat isn't coming off or out of the barrel,it's going to be"cycling" the heat around the barrel,heat doesn't just disappear unless no more heat(energy)is being created,it needs to escape somehow.Just my .02cents,but I'd like to see them prove me wrong,I too like new concepts but if they aren't proven with apples to apples comparisons,and they only offer their sleeve with a integrated muzzle brake(a whole other varible on accuracy in it self)it's going to be hard to make alot of believers from it.My eyes are open though.Goodshootin'
~Reagan
Re: Teludyne Tech StraightJacket
I apologize for perhaps I did not make my point clear in my first post. Simply stated, I am not impressed by the 1/2" 308 rifle with a heavy barrel. Nowadays, those are quite common. What I think would be impressive is an 6-8 pound 338 LM that will shoot a 1/2" 20 round rapid fire group, from a mechanical rest. Note, that twenty round matches are the norm for NRA high-power although caliber is limited to .030". In my opinion, this would be an engineered weapon and without employing a technology such as the sleeve, creating such a weapon would be difficult.
When mass is not a constraint, the problems get easier to solve.
In regards to heat, some of it will stay within the system, but the resulting temperature change depends on the thermal capacitance of said system. Ideally, I think, a high viscosity, thermally conducive fluid should be used, one that would transfer the heat from a small diameter barrel to a thin walled aluminum sleeve that would in turn be effective at transferring the heat to the atmosphere by conduction and convection.
And lastly, in regards to the brake, assuming that it is securely and rigidly attached to the muzzle, adding mass to the end of a barrel will invariably lower the natural frequency of said barrel. The amplitude of vibration will increase but the net result will be a rifle for which accurate hand loads can be more easily developed. Worth noting that natural frequency is equal to the square root of stiffness/mass. That is:
f=(k/m)^.5
Increasing mass without a commensurate increase in stiffness lowers frequency. Lower frequency = more successful hand loading.
I apologize for perhaps I did not make my point clear in my first post. Simply stated, I am not impressed by the 1/2" 308 rifle with a heavy barrel. Nowadays, those are quite common. What I think would be impressive is an 6-8 pound 338 LM that will shoot a 1/2" 20 round rapid fire group, from a mechanical rest. Note, that twenty round matches are the norm for NRA high-power although caliber is limited to .030". In my opinion, this would be an engineered weapon and without employing a technology such as the sleeve, creating such a weapon would be difficult.
When mass is not a constraint, the problems get easier to solve.
In regards to heat, some of it will stay within the system, but the resulting temperature change depends on the thermal capacitance of said system. Ideally, I think, a high viscosity, thermally conducive fluid should be used, one that would transfer the heat from a small diameter barrel to a thin walled aluminum sleeve that would in turn be effective at transferring the heat to the atmosphere by conduction and convection.
And lastly, in regards to the brake, assuming that it is securely and rigidly attached to the muzzle, adding mass to the end of a barrel will invariably lower the natural frequency of said barrel. The amplitude of vibration will increase but the net result will be a rifle for which accurate hand loads can be more easily developed. Worth noting that natural frequency is equal to the square root of stiffness/mass. That is:
f=(k/m)^.5
Increasing mass without a commensurate increase in stiffness lowers frequency. Lower frequency = more successful hand loading.
Re: Teludyne Tech StraightJacket
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheodoreKaragias</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I apologize for perhaps I did not make my point clear in my first post. Simply stated, I am not impressed by the 1/2" 308 rifle with a heavy barrel. Nowadays, those are quite common. What I think would be impressive is an 6-8 pound 338 LM that will shoot a 1/2" 20 round rapid fire group, from a mechanical rest. Note, that twenty round matches are the norm for NRA high-power although caliber is limited to .030". In my opinion, this would be an engineered weapon and without employing a technology such as the sleeve, creating such a weapon would be difficult.
When mass is not a constraint, the problems get easier to solve.
In regards to heat, some of it will stay within the system, but the resulting temperature change depends on the thermal capacitance of said system. Ideally, I think, a high viscosity, thermally conducive fluid should be used, one that would transfer the heat from a small diameter barrel to a thin walled aluminum sleeve that would in turn be effective at transferring the heat to the atmosphere by conduction and convection.
And lastly, in regards to the brake, assuming that it is securely and rigidly attached to the muzzle, adding mass to the end of a barrel will invariably lower the natural frequency of said barrel. The amplitude of vibration will increase but the net result will be a rifle for which accurate hand loads can be more easily developed. Worth noting that natural frequency is equal to the square root of stiffness/mass. That is:
f=(k/m)^.5
Increasing mass without a commensurate increase in stiffness lowers frequency. Lower frequency = more successful hand loading. </div></div>
I guess thats how you see it..338lm rapid fire from a mechanical rest....??....Really?I don't think most recreational shooters would do or have that on the norm. Like me and most people,this straight jacket deal is marketed torwards recreational and civilian use as it shows.The LE and Military guys can buy one with there own money but the bolt action rifles they are issued sure isn't gonna have the "jacket"on it,at least not for now.And as far as trying to impress you,I wasn't.Just stating that a .5 MOA or better grouping rifle is the benchmark for an accurate rifle.Someone please tell me I'm wrong;/....On heat,heat doesn't just disappear,it trys to escape,but can't when it has nowhere to go,it justs get hotter IMHO.The muzzle brake physics I was talking about had to do with air/gases around the bullet,especially the direct trail-wind,and it's escape route while exiting.The style the straight jacket uses is a side ported gill style brake that DOES aid in barrel /recoil control and change exiting gas dynamics.I'm not arguing what your saying necessarily,just stating what I stand by,I'm done on my behalf,just my .02cents.Goodshootin'
~Reagan
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheodoreKaragias</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I apologize for perhaps I did not make my point clear in my first post. Simply stated, I am not impressed by the 1/2" 308 rifle with a heavy barrel. Nowadays, those are quite common. What I think would be impressive is an 6-8 pound 338 LM that will shoot a 1/2" 20 round rapid fire group, from a mechanical rest. Note, that twenty round matches are the norm for NRA high-power although caliber is limited to .030". In my opinion, this would be an engineered weapon and without employing a technology such as the sleeve, creating such a weapon would be difficult.
When mass is not a constraint, the problems get easier to solve.
In regards to heat, some of it will stay within the system, but the resulting temperature change depends on the thermal capacitance of said system. Ideally, I think, a high viscosity, thermally conducive fluid should be used, one that would transfer the heat from a small diameter barrel to a thin walled aluminum sleeve that would in turn be effective at transferring the heat to the atmosphere by conduction and convection.
And lastly, in regards to the brake, assuming that it is securely and rigidly attached to the muzzle, adding mass to the end of a barrel will invariably lower the natural frequency of said barrel. The amplitude of vibration will increase but the net result will be a rifle for which accurate hand loads can be more easily developed. Worth noting that natural frequency is equal to the square root of stiffness/mass. That is:
f=(k/m)^.5
Increasing mass without a commensurate increase in stiffness lowers frequency. Lower frequency = more successful hand loading. </div></div>
I guess thats how you see it..338lm rapid fire from a mechanical rest....??....Really?I don't think most recreational shooters would do or have that on the norm. Like me and most people,this straight jacket deal is marketed torwards recreational and civilian use as it shows.The LE and Military guys can buy one with there own money but the bolt action rifles they are issued sure isn't gonna have the "jacket"on it,at least not for now.And as far as trying to impress you,I wasn't.Just stating that a .5 MOA or better grouping rifle is the benchmark for an accurate rifle.Someone please tell me I'm wrong;/....On heat,heat doesn't just disappear,it trys to escape,but can't when it has nowhere to go,it justs get hotter IMHO.The muzzle brake physics I was talking about had to do with air/gases around the bullet,especially the direct trail-wind,and it's escape route while exiting.The style the straight jacket uses is a side ported gill style brake that DOES aid in barrel /recoil control and change exiting gas dynamics.I'm not arguing what your saying necessarily,just stating what I stand by,I'm done on my behalf,just my .02cents.Goodshootin'
~Reagan
Re: Teludyne Tech StraightJacket
Reagan-
I think I get the point that you and TK appear to going for. Ted's comments for a rapid fire 338LM isn't something necessarily to be a "let's do this" by every Tom, Dick and Harry that's out busting rocks.
The system that can run a 1/2MOA, sub 10lb 338LM for 20 rounds would be impressive indeed. I've seen some sub 10lb 338LM's that were built for hunting, sported massive muzzle brakes and were just unholy to shoot both from noise and dust signature, 3 shot "strings" had the barrels hot to the touch and I'd be hard pressed to sit behind that thing for 10 rounds to see if the barrel would still shoot little groups when it was the appx temp as a heating element out of a toaster oven.
It's interesting to note the comment about barrel natural frequency. For a long time the reloading community and BR community especially has been under the idea that to make a barrel shoot, it needed to be heavy for heat and stiffness reasons. Then to make min weight you should flute it to retain stiffness but make the 18lb 5oz (or whatever arbitrary weight requirement was imposed) and still have a competitive rifle.
So now we've got cosmetically fluted, MTU contour, cut rifled barrels that have all sorts of work and investigation involved with making the barrel behave better.
The 260 Rem has a good example of "nice broad nodes" when shot with H4350 and the 140gr class bullets. It's like a reloader's dream. A broad charge weight band which is forgiving and being off the charge mean by 2 kernels of powder won't create a flier...
What's another way to tailor a system for bullet exit to be at the anti-node of the harmonic cycle? Tuning collars have been popular in 22RF BR competition for a long time now. That's what they're doing. It's a shooter-tunable weight at the end of a barrel, however, common centerfire BR wisdom would say that such a practice would be a bad idea. Certainly the RF game has some differences when compared to the noiser CF game, though some very picky things happen in the rimfire world to deal with a "dead" lead bullet and ammunition which is only as good as whatever factory made it.
A high heat capacity fluid which damps the inherent harmonics of the lighter weight barrel, retains capability of a top quality barrel internally with little or no stresses to show themselves through temperature flucturation and has the stiffness of an overall larger system but the weight of a much smaller package is quite enticing.
Imagine how much happier the average sniper's going to be when he can now deploy with a 9lb all up rifle that still retains the capability of his normal 17lb+ precision system? After spending some time dragging around an AIAW 338LM I don't wish that massive hulk on anyone to be dragged around. Sure, they're excellent rifles, but a system which retains the capability it does for half the weight is quite intriguing.
Reagan-
I think I get the point that you and TK appear to going for. Ted's comments for a rapid fire 338LM isn't something necessarily to be a "let's do this" by every Tom, Dick and Harry that's out busting rocks.
The system that can run a 1/2MOA, sub 10lb 338LM for 20 rounds would be impressive indeed. I've seen some sub 10lb 338LM's that were built for hunting, sported massive muzzle brakes and were just unholy to shoot both from noise and dust signature, 3 shot "strings" had the barrels hot to the touch and I'd be hard pressed to sit behind that thing for 10 rounds to see if the barrel would still shoot little groups when it was the appx temp as a heating element out of a toaster oven.
It's interesting to note the comment about barrel natural frequency. For a long time the reloading community and BR community especially has been under the idea that to make a barrel shoot, it needed to be heavy for heat and stiffness reasons. Then to make min weight you should flute it to retain stiffness but make the 18lb 5oz (or whatever arbitrary weight requirement was imposed) and still have a competitive rifle.
So now we've got cosmetically fluted, MTU contour, cut rifled barrels that have all sorts of work and investigation involved with making the barrel behave better.
The 260 Rem has a good example of "nice broad nodes" when shot with H4350 and the 140gr class bullets. It's like a reloader's dream. A broad charge weight band which is forgiving and being off the charge mean by 2 kernels of powder won't create a flier...
What's another way to tailor a system for bullet exit to be at the anti-node of the harmonic cycle? Tuning collars have been popular in 22RF BR competition for a long time now. That's what they're doing. It's a shooter-tunable weight at the end of a barrel, however, common centerfire BR wisdom would say that such a practice would be a bad idea. Certainly the RF game has some differences when compared to the noiser CF game, though some very picky things happen in the rimfire world to deal with a "dead" lead bullet and ammunition which is only as good as whatever factory made it.
A high heat capacity fluid which damps the inherent harmonics of the lighter weight barrel, retains capability of a top quality barrel internally with little or no stresses to show themselves through temperature flucturation and has the stiffness of an overall larger system but the weight of a much smaller package is quite enticing.
Imagine how much happier the average sniper's going to be when he can now deploy with a 9lb all up rifle that still retains the capability of his normal 17lb+ precision system? After spending some time dragging around an AIAW 338LM I don't wish that massive hulk on anyone to be dragged around. Sure, they're excellent rifles, but a system which retains the capability it does for half the weight is quite intriguing.
Re: Teludyne Tech StraightJacket
If you guys search I started a thread about this about 3 weeks ago.
on gentleman stated he had shot one of these rifles as fast as he could and stuck his finger inside the chamber and it was cool to the touch, so I doubt it holds heat in.
If you guys search I started a thread about this about 3 weeks ago.
on gentleman stated he had shot one of these rifles as fast as he could and stuck his finger inside the chamber and it was cool to the touch, so I doubt it holds heat in.
Re: Teludyne Tech StraightJacket
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheodoreKaragias</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What I think would be impressive is an 6-8 pound 338 LM that will shoot a 1/2" 20 round rapid fire group, from a mechanical rest. </div></div>
I indicated the use of a mechanical rest because if a test is to be conduct, perhaps one that compares a sleeved barrel to a conventional barrel, removing the human element eliminates an important variable, that being the human. However humans can take part in additional tests.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheodoreKaragias</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What I think would be impressive is an 6-8 pound 338 LM that will shoot a 1/2" 20 round rapid fire group, from a mechanical rest. </div></div>
I indicated the use of a mechanical rest because if a test is to be conduct, perhaps one that compares a sleeved barrel to a conventional barrel, removing the human element eliminates an important variable, that being the human. However humans can take part in additional tests.
Re: Teludyne Tech StraightJacket
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Reagan-
I think I get the point that you and TK appear to going for. Ted's comments for a rapid fire 338LM isn't something necessarily to be a "let's do this" by every Tom, Dick and Harry that's out busting rocks.
The system that can run a 1/2MOA, sub 10lb 338LM for 20 rounds would be impressive indeed. I've seen some sub 10lb 338LM's that were built for hunting, sported massive muzzle brakes and were just unholy to shoot both from noise and dust signature, 3 shot "strings" had the barrels hot to the touch and I'd be hard pressed to sit behind that thing for 10 rounds to see if the barrel would still shoot little groups when it was the appx temp as a heating element out of a toaster oven.
It's interesting to note the comment about barrel natural frequency. For a long time the reloading community and BR community especially has been under the idea that to make a barrel shoot, it needed to be heavy for heat and stiffness reasons. Then to make min weight you should flute it to retain stiffness but make the 18lb 5oz (or whatever arbitrary weight requirement was imposed) and still have a competitive rifle.
So now we've got cosmetically fluted, MTU contour, cut rifled barrels that have all sorts of work and investigation involved with making the barrel behave better.
The 260 Rem has a good example of "nice broad nodes" when shot with H4350 and the 140gr class bullets. It's like a reloader's dream. A broad charge weight band which is forgiving and being off the charge mean by 2 kernels of powder won't create a flier...
What's another way to tailor a system for bullet exit to be at the anti-node of the harmonic cycle? Tuning collars have been popular in 22RF BR competition for a long time now. That's what they're doing. It's a shooter-tunable weight at the end of a barrel, however, common centerfire BR wisdom would say that such a practice would be a bad idea. Certainly the RF game has some differences when compared to the noiser CF game, though some very picky things happen in the rimfire world to deal with a "dead" lead bullet and ammunition which is only as good as whatever factory made it.
A high heat capacity fluid which damps the inherent harmonics of the lighter weight barrel, retains capability of a top quality barrel internally with little or no stresses to show themselves through temperature flucturation and has the stiffness of an overall larger system but the weight of a much smaller package is quite enticing.
Imagine how much happier the average sniper's going to be when he can now deploy with a 9lb all up rifle that still retains the capability of his normal 17lb+ precision system? After spending some time dragging around an AIAW 338LM I don't wish that massive hulk on anyone to be dragged around. Sure, they're excellent rifles, but a system which retains the capability it does for half the weight is quite intriguing.
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Bohem-Very true.Goodshootin'
~Reagan
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Reagan-
I think I get the point that you and TK appear to going for. Ted's comments for a rapid fire 338LM isn't something necessarily to be a "let's do this" by every Tom, Dick and Harry that's out busting rocks.
The system that can run a 1/2MOA, sub 10lb 338LM for 20 rounds would be impressive indeed. I've seen some sub 10lb 338LM's that were built for hunting, sported massive muzzle brakes and were just unholy to shoot both from noise and dust signature, 3 shot "strings" had the barrels hot to the touch and I'd be hard pressed to sit behind that thing for 10 rounds to see if the barrel would still shoot little groups when it was the appx temp as a heating element out of a toaster oven.
It's interesting to note the comment about barrel natural frequency. For a long time the reloading community and BR community especially has been under the idea that to make a barrel shoot, it needed to be heavy for heat and stiffness reasons. Then to make min weight you should flute it to retain stiffness but make the 18lb 5oz (or whatever arbitrary weight requirement was imposed) and still have a competitive rifle.
So now we've got cosmetically fluted, MTU contour, cut rifled barrels that have all sorts of work and investigation involved with making the barrel behave better.
The 260 Rem has a good example of "nice broad nodes" when shot with H4350 and the 140gr class bullets. It's like a reloader's dream. A broad charge weight band which is forgiving and being off the charge mean by 2 kernels of powder won't create a flier...
What's another way to tailor a system for bullet exit to be at the anti-node of the harmonic cycle? Tuning collars have been popular in 22RF BR competition for a long time now. That's what they're doing. It's a shooter-tunable weight at the end of a barrel, however, common centerfire BR wisdom would say that such a practice would be a bad idea. Certainly the RF game has some differences when compared to the noiser CF game, though some very picky things happen in the rimfire world to deal with a "dead" lead bullet and ammunition which is only as good as whatever factory made it.
A high heat capacity fluid which damps the inherent harmonics of the lighter weight barrel, retains capability of a top quality barrel internally with little or no stresses to show themselves through temperature flucturation and has the stiffness of an overall larger system but the weight of a much smaller package is quite enticing.
Imagine how much happier the average sniper's going to be when he can now deploy with a 9lb all up rifle that still retains the capability of his normal 17lb+ precision system? After spending some time dragging around an AIAW 338LM I don't wish that massive hulk on anyone to be dragged around. Sure, they're excellent rifles, but a system which retains the capability it does for half the weight is quite intriguing.
</div></div>
Bohem-Very true.Goodshootin'
~Reagan
Re: Teludyne Tech StraightJacket
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheodoreKaragias</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheodoreKaragias</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What I think would be impressive is an 6-8 pound 338 LM that will shoot a 1/2" 20 round rapid fire group, from a mechanical rest. </div></div>
I indicated the use of a mechanical rest because if a test is to be conduct, perhaps one that compares a sleeved barrel to a conventional barrel, removing the human element eliminates an important variable, that being the human. However humans can take part in additional tests. </div></div>
For mechanical and/or engineering tests,thats fine. All I know Is if I shoot my particular rifle(that I personally use ALOT!)I will be able to,like most seasoned shooters,tell a difference in changing something out on my particular rifle,barrel,etc.Point it,I see what your saying,but "humans" as you put it,are very vital to the creation/development of a new product for a firearm when the product directly impacts the firearms' shooting characteristics and behavior.You especially as a President of a scope ring manufacturer, should know what I mean.I own/run my own business fyi.Computers/machines can't tell you what a "human" is thinking,if it's good or bad,right or wrong,or even if the consumer will like the way the product looks and functions in the end.Peoples' personal input is just as valuable as mechanical testing in the end.Engineering and mechanics are only tools and formulas,and in the end,only as good as the "humans" using them.My .02cents,again.Goodshootin'
~Reagan
are
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheodoreKaragias</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TheodoreKaragias</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What I think would be impressive is an 6-8 pound 338 LM that will shoot a 1/2" 20 round rapid fire group, from a mechanical rest. </div></div>
I indicated the use of a mechanical rest because if a test is to be conduct, perhaps one that compares a sleeved barrel to a conventional barrel, removing the human element eliminates an important variable, that being the human. However humans can take part in additional tests. </div></div>
For mechanical and/or engineering tests,thats fine. All I know Is if I shoot my particular rifle(that I personally use ALOT!)I will be able to,like most seasoned shooters,tell a difference in changing something out on my particular rifle,barrel,etc.Point it,I see what your saying,but "humans" as you put it,are very vital to the creation/development of a new product for a firearm when the product directly impacts the firearms' shooting characteristics and behavior.You especially as a President of a scope ring manufacturer, should know what I mean.I own/run my own business fyi.Computers/machines can't tell you what a "human" is thinking,if it's good or bad,right or wrong,or even if the consumer will like the way the product looks and functions in the end.Peoples' personal input is just as valuable as mechanical testing in the end.Engineering and mechanics are only tools and formulas,and in the end,only as good as the "humans" using them.My .02cents,again.Goodshootin'
~Reagan
are
Re: Teludyne Tech StraightJacket
Well I had a Remington 700 VTR in .308 and I dropped a Teludyne mod on it with a Bell and Carlson Stock with a Horus Vision Hawk scope. I feel that it is not worth it if you are already set up making wonderful groups that can win competitions. It is worth it when you have a mediocre barrel/gun setup and would like to dial in some consistency. For example I have a lot to learn about reloading and concentricity and even on my muscle memory techniques and all that. What that Teludyne does do for me is to allow me to shoot consistently longer. I used to before the mod could only shoot 5 shots and the barrel would be piping hot. Then my shots started to wonder. Then after the mod I can shoot 20-30 rounds and still stick my pinky finger into the mouth of the barrel. The outside of the barrel seems to warm up but never hot. With this almost no heat retention I can only assume it will extend my barrel/rifle life. I can see this system working well on an AR platform. I'm dying to get their upper receiver for the AR in either .223 or .308. I'm no expert just a simple man with a gun.
Well I had a Remington 700 VTR in .308 and I dropped a Teludyne mod on it with a Bell and Carlson Stock with a Horus Vision Hawk scope. I feel that it is not worth it if you are already set up making wonderful groups that can win competitions. It is worth it when you have a mediocre barrel/gun setup and would like to dial in some consistency. For example I have a lot to learn about reloading and concentricity and even on my muscle memory techniques and all that. What that Teludyne does do for me is to allow me to shoot consistently longer. I used to before the mod could only shoot 5 shots and the barrel would be piping hot. Then my shots started to wonder. Then after the mod I can shoot 20-30 rounds and still stick my pinky finger into the mouth of the barrel. The outside of the barrel seems to warm up but never hot. With this almost no heat retention I can only assume it will extend my barrel/rifle life. I can see this system working well on an AR platform. I'm dying to get their upper receiver for the AR in either .223 or .308. I'm no expert just a simple man with a gun.
stealing it, hope you don't mind!At $400 I was going to do a t3 that already shoots great but heats quickly. Few months later.....$700........don't think so. Don't even know what they run now days but since it cost more than a new barrel, smithing and load development..........No.
Just finished up my research on this. I would like to try their system out - but at $700+ they have priced me out of the market. I thought it would be beneficial to do a before and after test on a sporter-barreled rifle I have. I would have been willing to gamble $400 or so on their claims, but at $700 I am afraid I would end up feeling like Jack with a handful of beans. I guess I need to drink more Kool-Aid first.
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