The Great .308 Win. War Horse. Can it keep up?

[ogonzalez13]

Hiders,

Over the last few years the movement of precision long range shooters from the .308 Winchester to other "favorable" calibers such as the .260 Remington, 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5x47L, 243 Winchester, 6mm Creedmoor, etc.. has been very apparent, for obvious reasons.

I myself have shot and owned many of these different rounds, but always find myself missing my .308 Win. I got into this sport using an off the shelf Remington 700 Police, 308 Win., and had loads of fun with it and learned a lot.

I don't shoot in matches, but I am curious if any are being won by the old .308. Does it still have what it takes to get the job done in todays shooting comps?

 

[cal50]

The .308 can win but the shooter needs to be a master of it. Its not as forgiving for missed wind calls at distance but can still do the job. I have found myself going full circle service rifle wise and now have 4 M1A's and will start shooting service rifle again using them and for the 1st time in over a decade and a half I have no AR15 type rifles in the house. A couple SIG 556's but nothing for competition.

 

[buffybuster]

Inside 600yds, a good .308Win load doesn't give up much ballistically to the "lazers"; driven properly it can still win. But in my experience it is a bit less forgiving in field expedient shooting than the lighter calibers. Beyond 600yds, it's no contest, the "lazers" walk away and easier to shoot to boot.

That said, I'll always keep a .308Win around.

 

[ogonzalez13]

The .308 can win but the shooter needs to be a master of it. Its not as forgiving for missed wind calls at distance but can still do the job. I have found myself going full circle service rifle wise and now have 4 M1A's and will start shooting service rifle again using them and for the 1st time in over a decade and a half I have no AR15 type rifles in the house. A couple SIG 556's but nothing for competition.

I understand what you are saying. There was a time that I had to have a AR-15. I have not shot any of my ARs in years, but my good ole M1A scout goes to the range when time and ammo permits.

 

[ogonzalez13]

Inside 600yds, a good .308Win load doesn't give up much ballistically to the "lazers"; driven properly it can still win. But in my experience it is a bit less forgiving in field expedient shooting than the lighter calibers. Beyond 600yds, it's no contest, the "lazers" walk away and easier to shoot to boot.

That said, I'll always keep a .308Win around.

Like I said, I don't shoot matches, yet, but I plan to get off my lazy ass and give it a try this year. I guess I have always been a little intimidated buy the unknown of it all and really don't want to make a jack ass of myself in front of the top shooters at some of these matches. If I have learned one thing about this community its that most of the guys on here are down to earth and willing to help out. Not sure what max range is at these comps but I feel I could handle out to 600-800 yards ok.

 

[Ultraman550]

I was just going to ask this question about the .308. Buffy you mention that the "lasers" are easier to shoot which I am assuming you are talking about the 6.5 and the 260 category. Currently I'm having a custom .308 built but I have another spare action to work with that has the .308 bolt face and I am torn between having another .308, 260 rem or a 7mm built from it. Just have to buy the designated barrel. Do you guys that have a .308 and a 260 rem or a 6.5 find that you are shooting the .308 less because the other two calibers have less recoil and produce better results with less work?

 

[Trevor300wsm]

Oganzalez13,

Earlier in the year you sold me a trued 700 action with a PTG bolt and a .30 cal Bartlein blank. I wanted these so that I could finally have a .308 again after selling my last two for "better calibers" in the 6mm and 6.5mm realm. I didn't realize how much I missed having a .308 to practice with. I got a friend of mine to chamber it and screw the barrel on. It turned out to be the best .308 I've ever owned......and I've owned a couple GAPs. I wouldn't sell it for anything. Just wanted to say thanks for the parts.

 

[ogonzalez13]

Oganzalez13,

Earlier in the year you sold me a trued 700 action with a PTG bolt and a .30 cal Bartlein blank. I wanted these so that I could finally have a .308 again after selling my last two for "better calibers" in the 6mm and 6.5mm realm. I didn't realize how much I missed having a .308 to practice with. I got a friend of mine to chamber it and screw the barrel on. It turned out to be the best .308 I've ever owned......and I've owned a couple GAPs. I wouldn't sell it for anything. Just wanted to say thanks for the parts.

Looks like you and your buddy turned those scrap parts into a first rate rifle! LOL. looks Great.

This is exactly what I am talking about. Its hard for me to give up on the caliber that started it all for me. I think the .308 does a lot of things really well and has a lot going for it. I guess I just want to kick my shooting partners ass with a .308 so I can rub it in his Kool-Aid drinking ass!! Sorry Papa, its the truth. Ha!!

 

[buffybuster]

I was just going to ask this question about the .308. Buffy you mention that the "lasers" are easier to shoot which I am assuming you are talking about the 6.5 and the 260 category. Currently I'm having a custom .308 built but I have another spare action to work with that has the .308 bolt face and I am torn between having another .308, 260 rem or a 7mm built from it. Just have to buy the designated barrel. Do you guys that have a .308 and a 260 rem or a 6.5 find that you are shooting the .308 less because the other two calibers have less recoil and produce better results with less work?

What I mean by "lazers" (I don't use the word laser, as it is a genuine meaning) are 6.5mm and 6mm's. The 6mm's (.243Win, 6mm Creedmoor, 6mmSLR, etc) are gaining popularity, but their barrels don't last long. You have to stack those barrels like cord wood, and either do your own work or be on a first name basis with your gun plumber.

I shoot a .308Win for local matches, practice (longer barrel life) and it makes me concentrate on driving the rifle better. For bigger matches, the 6mm comes out. The .308Win is too much of a handicap and I NEED all the help I can get......

 

[VJJPunisher]

Wonder what caliber is the top sellers at big name builders,id wager money its .308

 

[bjay]

Im about to sell my milspec 308 to build me 6cm with custom action but milspec shoot so great im afraid im gonna mis it i already own few custom rifle 7saum 260rem and sako 223... should let go my last bone stock rifle and stick to custom or should i just stick to 308 and rebarel it with same cal when time comes..n besides i already have 308 reloading components(expensive components)

 

[Huckleberry75]

Man, I remember the day that stock showed up. Sexy sexy little beast.

I agree, the venerable .308 is too diverse to ever die. It may not be an ultra flat laser, but it can shoot the 110's for varmints all the way to the 208 heavies for cutting the wind, with a barrel life that lasts probably 10k rounds past the best 6.5/.243 barrel even thought of shooting. Pre-P.i.t.a-P.O.T.U.S. panic, good quality ammo was everywhere for reasonable prices.

SOme may thinks its old or outdated, but remember the addage "Fear not the man with many rifles, but beware of the man with one rifle, for he will most likely know how to use it". Get a .308, learn to drive it and drive it well, especially in the wind, and it is guaranteed to make you a better shooter across the board.

 

[Bruiser_Joe]

i will never be without a 308 bolt gun, the others are easier to shoot and like said out past 600 its not even a contest in the wind. 260/6.5cm or 243/6cm and you can add the 6.5x47 are just great rounds, low recoil, flat shooting, good in high winds. I still shoot 308 more then any of em though, makes me appreciate them when i do

 

[longun83]

I'm sure down the road I will get a 243. I've ran my friends rifle and quite like it.

308 however is what got me into distance shooting, I love it and wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Just as the 7.62x54R has been Russia's main machine gun chambering for a long, long time, the .308 will be 'in there' for a long time coming. But that doesn't mean it's going to hang out in the forefront. Witness the .30-'06, long the 'go to' chambering, now something of a niche chambering despite its fiercely loyal following (myself included). I don't own a .308, had three, I have owned three .30'06's all along, and I don't miss the .308 at all.

My .260 was my 1Kyd F Class chambering, and the .280 will be if I go back to 1Kyd shooting.

Greg

 

[leadbullet]

every serious shooter needs and must have at least one .308, and any other caliber they want or feel they need.

 

[NevadaZielmeister]

I myself have shot and owned many of these different rounds, but always find myself missing my .308 Win. I got into this sport using an off the shelf Remington 700 Police, 308 Win., and had loads of fun with it and learned a lot.

I don't shoot in matches, but I am curious if any are being won by the old .308. Does it still have what it takes to get the job done in todays shooting comps?

Gonzalez,

I too got into this sport with a Remington 700P in .308. I spent years learning how to shoot long range and after about 5, I finally was able to feel comfortable competing. I shot a couple of competitions and REALLY enjoyed it. So... I upgraded my rifle to a GA Precision and you guessed it, in .308. I have NO regrets.

I just finished 4th in a group of 27 shooters last weekend. I had no problem easily competing with the faster flatter shooting rounds. It is almost always the shooter and not the caliber/rifle. But in my case, the rifle/scope upgrade REALLY helped!

Yes, many shoot with the .308 at long range. To give you an idea of my performance. I hit the Coyote Silhouette at 665 yards 6 out of 8 times. And in the shoot off for 4th place, I nailed the Rabbit Silhouette at 500 meters (550 yards) on the first shot!

Don't give up on the .308. It can perform, just practice more with just one rifle. There is also a LOT of data out there regarding known bullet performance (i.e. 168 grain and 175 grain Sierra Match King bullet profiles).

 

[Hondo64d]

I love my .260, but I have had an easier time developing an accurate load for the .308 than any other cartridge I have yet loaded for. Those include the .223, .243, 6mm Rem, .250 Ackley, 25-284, .257 Wby, .260, .270 Win, 7mm-08, and 30-06. .308s just seem so danged eager to please compared to other cartridges...

John

 

[bluto51]

It may not be the elite cartridge it once was, but it's still in the mix. By my calculations, the top two winners of the 2013 F T/R
Nationals this year would have placed 15th and 17th out of around 160 competitors in the F Open class. The .308s dropped
just 13 points to the F Open Winner over 3 days of shooting. Not too shabby.

 

[ogonzalez13]

I guess it's time for me to achieve the 308 full potential and get set up to reload for this great cartridge. Then again, I guess that's why I love it so much, I have always been able to pick up quality factory ammo shoot some great rounds at the range.

 

[Nebula]

What I mean by "lazers" (I don't use the word laser, as it is a genuine meaning) are 6.5mm and 6mm's. The 6mm's (.243Win, 6mm Creedmoor, 6mmSLR, etc) are gaining popularity, but their barrels don't last long. You have to stack those barrels like cord wood, and either do your own work or be on a first name basis with your gun plumber.

I shoot a .308Win for local matches, practice (longer barrel life) and it makes me concentrate on driving the rifle better. For bigger matches, the 6mm comes out. The .308Win is too much of a handicap and I NEED all the help I can get......

I need to remember to put my camo pants and boonie hat on when reading this forum.

 

[Shoottothrill]

Why can't a bullet be designed for the .308 at around 140 grains or so that you can push at 3,000 FPS, with a BC that will compete with the 6's?

 

[JoshcBoucher]

I hope it's OK. I've got 7 308s, and a 300 win mag. I love the them all. Please don't say it's out of style.

 

[Pointman308]

Why can't a bullet be designed for the .308 at around 140 grains or so that you can push at 3,000 FPS, with a BC that will compete with the 6's?

Yeah This?^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[Niles Coyote]

Why can't a bullet be designed for the .308 at around 140 grains or so that you can push at 3,000 FPS, with a BC that will compete with the 6's?

Until then there is the JLK 180 grain LB-VLD with a very real .580g1 and 2700fps+ is possible from a 308 chamber...

 

[wakajawaka]

Seems like high BC bullets are also heavy for caliber. I doubt well see high BC, 140gr, .308 projectiles.

 

[Aimsmall55]

I hope it keeps up bc I just spent a sh#% ton of money on this one. I own a GAP Crusader 6.5 cm but I missed my .308 so much I had this one built

 

[steve123]

I'm the opposite of you guys. 308 was my first centerfire in a Winny M70 and I never did like it. A few years ago I traded into a DPMS in 308, shot it a few times and sold it shortly afterwards. I do own one 308, my dad left me a unfired custom Sako Finwolf in 308, probably stay that way till my kids get it. I won't be getting another 308 unless I plan on using it for a doner.

Throughout the years I have owned all kinds of chamberings. I decided on the few I considered optimal for various reasons and stayed with them. The 20x47, 6x47 and the 30-375R flat out rock!

Just wore out my 3rd 6x47 barrel - 3200 rounds and was melonited. Talked to a guy yesterday that is on 26 reloads with 6.5x47L, which is important to me because I've already been shooting my brass for 6 years and looks like another 6 is doable.

308 gets excellent barrel life, the one thing about it I can see liking. It has as a cult following, why I don't know???

Also I don't get why you guys are practicing long range with a 308 and then getting out the laser for matches??? You're supposed to be learning what your lasers do in the wind so when match day comes you've developed the intuition to know where to aim!?!?

Me... I'll take a 223 with heavy bullets rather than the old war horse any day.

 

[NorCal Vu]

I have a stable of 6.5s, but do like shooting my ole Newman Precision 308win at an F-Class match, or just getting some good training in.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Love my SAUM, and my .260, but will never let go of my trusty old .308.

 

[mwhite]

The 308 is just a all around cartridge thats very popular,and a great hunting round, as well as long range shooting gun, its very easy to reload, ammo is easy to find for it and barrel life last alot longer than those of the bigger mag calibers. Why u think the military still use the 308(7.62) than any other caliber,, There maybe other calibers that shoot flatter at certain distance, but the 308 will be right there with them. Ill never be without mind.

 

[a1-equipment]

I have an rws built bat action 308 and a Baer ar-10 monolith love them both. But I think the 260 is a better round but the lack of time to reload and the lack obtainable match grade ammo means I will not own one intill one of those things change. I feel as long as there are guys like me with to little time to reload and would rather spend that time shooting 1/2-1/4 moa out to 600-800 yard the 308 will be as popular as ever.

 

[SWRichmond]

I had begun competing LR with a .300WSM, which I still have and love. On the advice of a friend who is successful in the sport, I stopped shooting the wind-bucking WSM and started shooting .308. I am very glad I did, I am learning to look for subtleties in the wind...with the emphasis on "learning". If you want to shoot for high score, shoot something else. I think I am learning more than I would have otherwise and I hope to develop a more discerning view of the wind.

I hope it keeps up bc I just spent a sh#% ton of money on this one. I own a GAP Crusader 6.5 cm but I missed my .308 so much I had this one built

With the sling on that side of the stock, if you throw that thing on your back the bolt handle will dig into your back.

 

[Aimsmall55]

I had begun competing LR with a .300WSM, which I still have and love. On the advice of a friend who is successful in the sport, I stopped shooting the wind-bucking WSM and started shooting .308. I am very glad I did, I am learning to look for subtleties in the wind...with the emphasis on "learning". If you want to shoot for high score, shoot something else. I think I am learning more than I would have otherwise and I hope to develop a more discerning view of the wind.





With the sling on that side of the stock, if you throw that thing on your back the bolt handle will dig into your back.

Not if you carry it on the other side

 

[bluto51]

I hope it keeps up bc I just spent a sh#% ton of money on this one. I own a GAP Crusader 6.5 cm but I missed my .308 so much I had this one built.

Fine looking rifle. Can you give the specs? Barrel, length, weight, chassis, etc.? Thanks.

bluto51

 

[kansas]

I can't cut the wind like the whiz bang cals but I've been experimenting with RL17 and 190smk and like what I'm seeing. I can run 2650 without any pressure signs. Still going to have more wind call than .260 but I've only doing this for a year and can't afford to change calibers now.

 

[Aimsmall55]

Fine looking rifle. Can you give the specs? Barrel, length, weight, chassis, etc.? Thanks.

bluto51

Yeah sure. It's a Stiller Tac 30 action built onto a bartlein #9 (28" finished" with a Jewell hvr trigger. Twist is 1:11.25 and throated long for the heavys. AICS 1.5 chassis with a NF NXS 5.5 x22x50 mildot. Wight is 19#'s. it feels like shooting a .223

 

[jashmore1234]

Wait, when did they start making calibers other than .308?

To each there own; however, for us less experienced shooters, there is a wealth of information on the .308 readily available that makes it a very attractive caliber.

With some calibers, you have to know a guy, who knows a guy, whose friends says that the best powder to use with that caliber is whatever. I feel like I am working with voodoo and black magic.

With .308, you get some Varget, decent bullets and Lapua brass and you are shooting groups.



















Then again, in five years I will probably be singing the praises on some other caliber and telling everyone that .308 is for people who don't know what they are doing.

 

[Whit]

I own a 260 and a 308. I have to admit I think I love my 308 more. I am going to be getting another 308 early next year. I shoot my 308 hell of a lot more then my 260. I have had my 260 for only about 2.5 months and now I am working 7 days a week (since August) I havnt had much time to shoot though.

 

[BangBangBlatBlat]

Has anyone tried running the 185 Bergers in competition? A hard load of MR2000 should be able to get pretty close to 6.5 CM loads. And the long throats in some rifles might be a good thing.

The other question is whether or not you can get a muzzle brake to eat enough recoil to be able to spot your impacts?

 

[ChemE1975]

Other than the .243 Weatherby that I shot all of 100 rounds (or less) through when I was 14 (about 20 years ago), I have never owned a bolt gun. I plan to rectify that in the next few weeks, or at least before Christmas. I've gone back and forth on caliber, but now have pretty much decided on .308. Like so many others have said above, the wealth of knowledge and the utility of the cartridge are what push my decision. I will hand load for it- my first rifle loads, so this only strengthens the .308 argument. I know the ballistics are not on par with the 6 & 6.5's, but I can sacrifice a bit of performance for the other advantages. This is going to be the bolt gun I learn precision shooting with and it seems like the .308 will be a good choice for a novice to become less novice.

 

[308Gunner]

I have 2 308s and also a 260 and a 6.5-284 norma I shoot my 308s a hell of alot more than anything else because it will make you pay attention to the wind, which helps when I pick one of my other guns out of the safe. I will always have one but I will probably have a 6cm built next year if my wife doesn't find out.