The MOST constant velocities Powder Advertisement

[Baddog 0302]

Anyone else seen the X brand powder advertisement on Accurate Shooters forum where X brand advertisement states "
BEAT THE HEAT,
The most constant velocities across the temperature spectrum ?

It's on the Bulletin, after the write up on a 20 PPC pistol

 

[918v]

 

[918v]

Now we can all see it

 

[Baddog 0302]

You done good , think I'll call them tomorrow and ask how you figure you can make such claims

chart
Crap, looks like RL 15, & 17 stay in the closet for a while

 

[db2000]

CFE223 looks pitiful. Too bad as it meters so well.

 

[sam4886]

I shoot 16 in a 6.5 creed. Pretty stable in my experience.

 

[Supersubes]

You done good , think I'll call them tomorrow and ask how you figure you can make such claims

chart
Crap, looks like RL 15, & 17 stay in the closet for a while

Those have been out for a while, and are very temp stable. Edit: none of them appear in the burn rate/temp sensitivity chart you linked either.

 

[918v]

CFE223 looks pitiful. Too bad as it meters so well.

Where does it look pitiful?

 

[Baddog 0302]

Those have been out for a while, and are very temp stable. Edit: none of them appear in the burn rate/temp sensitivity chart you linked either.

(*) (*) Look again; The chart shows 15 @ 1.52 and 17 @ 1.42 while Varget is @ .13
And , this is about their advertisement that claims their powders are so constant across the temperature range.
Their Ad. agency must also work for some politicians

 

[918v]

What chart? Where?

 

[spife7980]

(*) (*) Look again; The chart shows 15 @ 1.52 and 17 @ 1.42 while Varget is @ .13

But those aren’t the ones being touted as temp stable.

 

[Supersubes]

(*) (*) Look again; The chart shows 15 @ 1.52 and 17 @ 1.42 while Varget is @ .13
And , this is about their advertisement that claims their powders are so constant across the temperature range.
Their Ad. agency must also work for some politicians

The powders in the banner are RL 16, tS15.5, and RL23. Very temp stable powders.

 

[supercorndogs]

Read the add again chief. TS16, TS15.5, TS23.

Who wants to be tTS is an acronym for temperature stable.

 

[Supersubes]

Read the add again chief. TS16, TS15.5, TS23.

Who wants to be tTS is an acronym for temperature stable.

Funny the website doesnt reflect the prefix change for 16 and 23 yet.

 

[db2000]

Where does it look pitiful?

Unless I’m interpreting it wrong, it increases 1.7 fps per degree F with a huge swing from 64-104F. That’s pitiful. Varget, H4350, H4831, H4895 are all 0.4 or less.

 

[db2000]

Funny the website doesnt reflect the prefix change for 16 and 23 yet.

Those are substantially better supposedly, like RL26. They have some 15.5 that’s supposedly temp stable and burn rate between 15 and 16 as the name suggests.

 

[supercorndogs]

Funny the website doesnt reflect the prefix change for 16 and 23 yet.

Are TS16 and TS23 going to be the same as RL16 and RL23?

 

[Supersubes]

Those are substantially better supposedly, like RL26. They have some 15+ or something like that iirc. Supposedly more stable I think.

RL 26 is a total different animal made in Switzerland by Nitrochemie.

15.5, 16 and 23 are made by Bofors in Sweden. That banner above is the first time I've seen TS in front of 16 and 23. The literature for TS15.5 (the newest of the three) is a virtual cut and paste of the literature for 16 and 23, which tout “TZ technology”. Direct competitors for varget, H4350, and H4831.


@supercorndogs if you google TS16 there is one hit that appears but the page doesnt work. The few lines of description on google read the same as RL16. Im just spitballing about a possible re-branding, as RL16 already exceeds h4350 in stability and the literature appears to be the same.

The second pic is cropped but is RL16 not TS. Just posted for the description similarity. More i look at it, the more it seems like a marketing fuckup, to include the ad posted by the op.

 

[db2000]

I see. Yeah, unsure. Sorry if I muddied the waters. Overlooked the TS component. I remember that now. Definitely don’t have anything helpful to add as far as that goes.
Personally 26 works well for me.

 

[918v]

Unless I’m interpreting it wrong, it increases 1.7 fps per degree F with a huge swing from 64-104F. That’s pitiful. Varget, H4350, H4831, H4895 are all 0.4 or less.

Where are you seeing this? Post a link.

 

[Supersubes]

I see. Yeah, unsure. Sorry if I muddied the waters. Overlooked the TS component. I remember that now. Definitely don’t have anything helpful to add as far as that goes.

No mud. I use 16, 23, and 26 a lot, and found all this out from an Alliant rep shortly after 26 came out. Then later confirmed it with some googling.

 

[Supersubes]

Where are you seeing this? Post a link.

Its the link labeled “chart” in the op’s second post. Looks like a regular burn rate chart but with an extra column.

 

[918v]

I see it now. Thanks. I disagree with the CFE assessment. I got .5 FPS in my 308 with 175’s.

 

[Supersubes]

I see it now. Thanks. I disagree with the CFE assessment. I got .5 FPS in my 308 with 175’s.

I didn't read the thread its in, and dont know where the chart came from. Not a manufacturer due to how incomplete it is.

 

[db2000]

I see it now. Thanks. I disagree with the CFE assessment. I got .5 FPS in my 308 with 175’s.

I hope so. 1.7! Jeez. I bought a bunch to try as it’s ball for the progressive. I work everything up on my single anyway. I’ve had the best velocity and accuracy with H4895. Never actually temp tested any of it. Just noticed in my logs not much difference in VA. Just figured this would meter better.

 

[straightshooter1]

I see it now. Thanks. I disagree with the CFE assessment. I got .5 FPS in my 308 with 175’s.

Using QuickLoad for 175's in a .308 with a temperature spread from 64°F to 94°F, it calculates a difference in velocity of ~39 fps; divided by 30 it comes to 1.3 fps per 1°F. That's better than the burn rate charts I've seen, but no where near that .5 fps.

Of course, a lot of variables are involved with the burn rate calculation; like bullet weight being used and temperature range being used.

 

[straightshooter1]

I find lot of Reloader 23 to be pretty low sensitivity out of my 6.5 PRR (like at ~.7 fps) for temperatures between 60°F and 95°f with Berger 140 Hybrids, and my AR Comp for my .308 at ~.6 fps with 168 SMK's.

 

[db2000]

I find lot of Reloader 23 to be pretty low sensitivity out of my 6.5 PRR (like at ~.7 fps) for temperatures between 60°F and 95°f with Berger 140 Hybrids, and my AR Comp for my .308 at ~.6 fps with 168 SMK's.

I like 23 also. I still get better accuracy from 22 in my 300 WBY and 6.5 PRC but it’s a small difference.

 

[308pirate]

You done good , think I'll call them tomorrow and ask how you figure you can make such claims

chart
Crap, looks like RL 15, & 17 stay in the closet for a while

Who made that chart? How did they do it?

Why should anyone believe what is on it?

Do people just believe random internet shit they find without any critical thinking?

 

[918v]

Using QuickLoad for 175's in a .308 with a temperature spread from 64°F to 94°F, it calculates a difference in velocity of ~39 fps; divided by 30 it comes to 1.3 fps per 1°F. That's better than the burn rate charts I've seen, but no where near that .5 fps.

Of course, a lot of variables are involved with the burn rate calculation; like bullet weight being used and temperature range being used.

Temperature stability is cartridge dependent and also influenced by pressure. I bet you could induce 1.7 by using a light charge that doesn’t burn completely.

 

[MakeSawdust]

Temperature stability is cartridge dependent and also influenced by pressure. I bet you could induce 1.7 by using a light charge that doesn’t burn completely.

^^^THIS x1000

Sometimes you get something that barely changes with temp and other times it blows balls. I'm currently running 31.4 gr Varget under a 108 Bt Target Berger in Lapua brass with cci 450s. My temp variation is about 1 fps per degree. I have been running this load in matches for 1700 rds. I have had more 1st round hits at 1000+ yards than with any other setup. My dope has lined up EXTREMELY well across temps from high teens to over 100.

I ran a TYL rack the other day at 700 yards with a 3" diamond as the small target. I have never had to adjust the dope from what the calculator spits out while running it set up this way.

Other people I shoot with have reported the same. 1 fps per degree is certainly not the wondrous temp stability that Varget is marketed for. Everything else about the load is insanely good.

H1000 packed as tight as it will compress under a 105 or 115 in a 243AI is about .2fps per degree. That's pretty good temp stability. The load is accurate, even at distance surprisingly, but the sd/es are horrible. Most guys on here would not accept them, but the on target results do not bear out what the chrono numbers say.

There might be a couple people that have this stuff down to the science. For the most part, far more people want to act like they are scientists when they are more like witches with a lot of experience in what recipes make the best witches brew. There are still a lot of unexplained anomalies in the mainstream shooting/reloading community, even at the upper levels.