Well it continues. Distributor took back the first .308 PCR which shot 1.04. The remark was madeby someone on the forum that 1 MOA @100yrds is 1.047 so technically the rifle may have shot sub-moa. A replacement arrived today. The target 1.05 clearly not sub-moa. Seems Remington will just throw any old thing in the box and ship it. Too bad they just came out of bankruptcy. Seems they deserve to go under. I will not longer sell their PCR rifles.
-
Having trouble using the site?
Contact support
The Saga of Remington PCR or POS
- Thread starter cnjcomp
- Start date
Should have just continued this in your thread you already created for this purpose instead of scattering them around for a bunch of disjointed reads.
https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/remington-pcr-308.6887438/
All I'll say is: What did you expect? Sounds like exactly what I would expect from a factory remington tube.
https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/remington-pcr-308.6887438/
All I'll say is: What did you expect? Sounds like exactly what I would expect from a factory remington tube.
I think it’s fucking moronic to bitchy about a factory rifle being a few tenths of an inch over MOA. I’ve got a 700 that was about an inch gun with some factory ammo, it’s reliably half MOA with handloads.
I here you, but if you advertise something you should deliver it. Their Qc is terrible. I have a 1987 Remington 700PSS DM it still shoots 3/4 moa using
LC Match ammo. Its trigger (stock) is set to two pounds, never has been adjusted and only clean it with lighter fluid. That the quality they no longer have.
LC Match ammo. Its trigger (stock) is set to two pounds, never has been adjusted and only clean it with lighter fluid. That the quality they no longer have.
The company is being raped by an investment group and therefore they just declared bankruptcy. They build stuff in one of the least business friendly stares in the union. Yup, this isn’t the Remington of yesteryear. Anyway, if it’s shooting near an inch with some ammo, try other ammo. The gun isn’t that bad and I’d like to see the Hide member that can build a rifle at the that cost in New York that shoots MOA with any ammo. Reality check done.
Like I said, I'm a Dealer not a buyer. I'll stick with my older Remingtons and Steyr SSG. My point is in the eyes of the average buyer what he thinks with Remington's hype about their sub-moa rifles. A rifle that is not even moa will not sell, so I maybe stuck with it or need to sell it at a loss to get rid of it.
By the way, Remington has emerged from Bankruptcy.
My 700sps can easily do half moa groups if I do my part.. the plastic stock was capable of sub moa, but the B&C stock I put on sucked the groups in.
If a stock barreled 700sps in 7mm rem mag CS group better with a cheap stock upgrade.. then the pcr should do better given the cost
If a stock barreled 700sps in 7mm rem mag CS group better with a cheap stock upgrade.. then the pcr should do better given the cost
If it’s nearly capable of MOA with one batch of ammo...try another kind of ammo. Sounds like Remington really isn’t screwing people.
If it were my rifle I would. If I fire it then its a used rifle not NIB. I have no intention of buying one of these. Remington should have re-tested this and other non moa rifles with a different lot of ammo to give the end consumer confidence in the product. If it still wasn't in spec then they needed to fix it. Many years ago when I visited the Anschutz factory they tested each barreled action in a fixture with three different lots of ammo. At the time they were using R-50. The smallest group within spec was placed on the rifle's manual test card.If the rifle was out of spec it was re-worked. By the way the .063 moa rifle with a test case and a 173gr LC m118 bullet lot LC-93E952-001 set on the lands had an OACL of 2.801. The 1.05 moa with the same case and bullet miked 2.937 .
Do you not realize that you’re asking for the impossible? You’re not being realistic. What Remington should have done was specify the ammo with which said rifle will be sub MOA with. Jeez, sub MOA with ALL ammo at under $1k? Shit, what next? 10 shot sub MOA groups with Walmart ammo and it better not be 1.1 MOA, or I will lose my shit.
The reality check is simply this: a person who buys a typical REMINGTON 700 model rifle off the shelf is looking to hit minute of paper plate. This is generally a deer rifle destined to never shoot farther than 200 yards. Period. I’d take a stock 700 w/ that degree of accuracy & run w/ it. It’s a hunting rifle. Accept it for what it is. While not “perfect” it is good enough for the task at hand.
*The cost of these rifles are often much less than the cost of a custom action by itself.
**Bear in mind the context in which this rifle will be used.
*The cost of these rifles are often much less than the cost of a custom action by itself.
**Bear in mind the context in which this rifle will be used.
You are missing the point. Remington is advertising that their PCR will shoot sub-moa groups right out of the box. And here's the test target to prove it.
The customer (buyer) expects this, looks at Remington's test target and it is not even moa. Would you buy it??. NO, That's the problem I have as a Retailer. I've told my customers to expect to replace the trigger because they are just crap, but if they shoot sub-moa that's a good trade off. This reminds me of the problem I had with Ruger Red Label Shotguns that were failing and the angry customer fallout.
On one hand I can see how this is an issue, they advertise that it’s a Sub-MOA rifle and the target, which is esentially a performance guarantee, shows that it just barely meets that requirement. To someone new to the sport that wouldn’t instill a lot of confidence to see the rifle you just spent $1200 on just barely meets the minimum required to be sub-MOA.
For cnjcomp it could be an issue with the customer coming back claiming the rifle doesn’t do what it was supposed to do which is shoot sub-MOA. While it’s not cnjcomp’s fault it becomes his problem at this point with the customer either wanting another rifle or a refund so for him it’s easier to send it back and request another one prior to selling it rather than risk an angry customer.
On the other hand it is a non issue for people like us, we probably wouldn’t even look at the tag because we already have multiple ammo types ready to test or handload for it. In that case the factory target is rather irrelevant.
For cnjcomp it could be an issue with the customer coming back claiming the rifle doesn’t do what it was supposed to do which is shoot sub-MOA. While it’s not cnjcomp’s fault it becomes his problem at this point with the customer either wanting another rifle or a refund so for him it’s easier to send it back and request another one prior to selling it rather than risk an angry customer.
On the other hand it is a non issue for people like us, we probably wouldn’t even look at the tag because we already have multiple ammo types ready to test or handload for it. In that case the factory target is rather irrelevant.
So you think they should shoot 1/16" groups since one supposedly shot that? Let's see it repeat that lol
People buy the rifles because they don't know any better or can't afford better. If you don't think it's a quality purchase, inform the customer. If it's to much hassle for you to deal with, quit offering to sell them .
No, If it even shot 1.02 or 1.03 that's sub-moa and meets the standard. Then the customer has nothing to complain about.
You said you sent back one that shot 1.04 but a 1.03 is ok because it meets the standard lol. .010" isn't going to make a bit of fucking difference. You just want to whine and cry. We all know Remington's quality has went down hill but do you really feel the need for two threads on it? Take a couple Midol or try some Summers eve to get the sand out of your vagina.
I see both sides of this coin, however, if a company like Howa can deliver .5-1.0 MOA 5 shot groups for a $400 barreled action, or Tikka T3 for 800-1000, a $1200 rifle should be capable of clear sub MOA precision for five shots..
I understand it's splitting hairs between 1.05 and 1.0 or so but seriously, a match barrel should produce .5-.6 without question. A factory match barrel should be able to hold .7-.9 at the current level of technology (CNC machinist, air gauging, etc).
It's a problem that Remington should have sorted out a few years ago but that's just an opinion of one. $1200 gets you into a few pretty decent rifles including the RPR, Tikka T3, Howa Chassis, etc. I'd expect better also. Maybe they are very ammo sensitive but that would suggest their R&D department should look into better sourcing bfor barrel material or QC.
I understand it's splitting hairs between 1.05 and 1.0 or so but seriously, a match barrel should produce .5-.6 without question. A factory match barrel should be able to hold .7-.9 at the current level of technology (CNC machinist, air gauging, etc).
It's a problem that Remington should have sorted out a few years ago but that's just an opinion of one. $1200 gets you into a few pretty decent rifles including the RPR, Tikka T3, Howa Chassis, etc. I'd expect better also. Maybe they are very ammo sensitive but that would suggest their R&D department should look into better sourcing bfor barrel material or QC.
1.05? Lucky you. I've a .223 XCR Compact Tactical that is easily 1.5 MOA, even after bedding and with several handloads. I've also a S.S. 5R .223 that averages .550-.750 with handloads and a Shilen trigger.
With Remington, it's the luck of the draw. 5 hundredths over guarantee is better than average for Big Green.
Agreed... But if they continue to provide targets, they should also include ammo type and lot number.
At least it would give an indication of shooter vs rifle if you could source same lot number. (Versus wind tunnel and Ransom rest...).
Do they say what ammo they are shooting? If its Remington ammo I'd be ecstatic with 1.05 MOA out of any rifle!
How reliable is the shooter? Was he shooting Bench, prone etc? What ammo did he use and how many rounds? Lots of moving parts here with little info. Does the barrel have a break in period?
No sir, it is YOU who are missing what is transpiring in this thread.
You have hopped on an Internet forum to 'file a complaint' with what you assumed would be a receptive and confirmational audience. Because of the pedantic nature of the complaint, and likely the perception that you just got on here out-of-the-blue to drag Remington through the mud, most of these users disagree, but you have painted yourself into a corner where you feel it is necessary to defensively argue.
What is REALLY happening here is that a business is actively pissing all over their own PR, and we are watching the show. That business is not Remington.
I recommend you look at the depth of the hole you're in, look at whose hands hold the shovel, and then QFD.
Last edited:
That's what I am doing. If a customer still wants one I'll get it for him any issues He needs to take it up with Remington.
Yes, I emailed a copy of Remington's test targets to a friend who works at a range that has computerized scoring for NCAA events. He scanned the targets into the system and came up with a score of 1.0498. Remington only gives you three digits. The 1.05 rifle came out with a score of 1.0579.
Remington needs to either discontinue providing targets or quit advertising sub-MOA accuracy. The only alternative would be to test failing rifles with a different lot of ammo, and that's not going to happen. What I am pointing out to everyone (specifically newbee PCR shooters that come to this site looking for info on what to buy) That they maybe better off purchasing something a little more expensive that has a proven track record instead of buying something they may not be happy with and go though the hassle of dealing with Remington.
So you supposedly did all this and it wasn't even .003" over 1 moa and you felt the need to bitch lol. You need to find something legitimate to bitch about. You hate Remington so much so quit handling them all together or would that be too simple?
holy fuck.......you have a rifle thats shooting 1MOA with factory ammo.........and you are bitching because Remington didnt shoot every type of ammo available before claiming its sub MOA?
and you sell guns for a living?
if its shooting 1MOA with factory loads......then it is clearly capable of shooting sub-moa.
i honestly cant believe you made an account here just to bitch about .005 MOA.......seriously take your bitching else where.
and you sell guns for a living?
if its shooting 1MOA with factory loads......then it is clearly capable of shooting sub-moa.
i honestly cant believe you made an account here just to bitch about .005 MOA.......seriously take your bitching else where.
Similar threads
