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The war in Ukraine and Donbas
- Thread starter Darayavaus
- Start date
Whatever is happening, its certainly not good for Ukraine or Ukrainians.
What's the average age of a Ukrainian soldier now? Must be edging close to 55, if not closer. That's not sustainable. And sadly, it looks like they are fighting for what could've been determined without this war.
What's the average age of a Ukrainian soldier now? Must be edging close to 55, if not closer. That's not sustainable. And sadly, it looks like they are fighting for what could've been determined without this war.
Not only was the war unnecessary but I'm pretty sure Ukraine has been training and equipping troops since 2014 to retake the break away regions and maybe Crimea, that's why to them and NATO Minsk 2 was always just about buying time and was never serious.
Considering zelenskyy ran on an anti-war platform I hope that snake gets what is coming to him, some many Ukrainians have died needlessly.
You are right about a lot of things.
If you are on 'X', Christopher Todd Nolan is an interesting follow. He's documented the start of this conflict (back to 2014 as you rightly point out) very well:
Ivan Katchanovski is another interesting fellow. A Canadian-Ukranian scholar that's written peer reviewed papers on the Maidan Coup:
Thank you, I try to keep abreast with current going-ons and still remember the 2014-2020 media coverage on Ukraine (corrupt with nazis). Current Ukraine is an odd state, they rely solely on soviet infrastructure (which they hate) and haven't seemed to have built anything in the 30ish years of independence, a good example of how systemic and widespread corruption cripples nations that are not in bad positions (look at Africa, or especially Nigeria, very wealthy with natural resources but known only for scammers)
I was just reading about pre-war Ukrainian doctors that took bribes from sick people to be able to buy equipment and supplies so they could treat patients as most the money for the hospital had been stolen.
NATO, Ukrainian, US and European politicians all wanted this to happen, I honestly don't even know why as Russia and China being pushed together was predictable and really is not in anyone's interest, US and especially EU are spending political and actual capital that they are rapidly running out of ass to pay for.
Let’s be honest here, if someone were so inclined, it would be easy to end this overnight. Slip in, take some key people, slip out like you never there and the leadership crumbles and would end with a quickness. I’m not gonna say who you should remove but it’s pretty easy to figure out. Without the push I’m not sure the people have the resolve. The thing is, nobody really wants this war to end. For whatever reason, the powers that he want it whether it is for money laundering, minerals, future Mecca for rich assholes…for whatever reason someone wants this to continue. It could literally be ended overnight in half a dozen ways.
We are well beyond the point of it being obvious that the reasons for governments supporting the war are not righteous ones.
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Russia Poised To Capture All Of Donetsk After Several Breakthroughs On Weakened Ukraine Lines | ZeroHedge
ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
www.zerohedge.com
Which country are you talking about? This could be a viable solution for more than one. LOL.
Waiting to see if Kamala can prevail and bags of cash can continue flowing, if not we can make peace
Russia Overnight Launched Single Biggest Drone Attack On Kiev Since War's Start | ZeroHedge
ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
www.zerohedge.com
interesting,and seemingly accurate,about the war starting in'14. a bit OT but on thinking it could be said that many wars really start before the accepted date. japanese scholars say ww2 started in '37. i have heard some say '31. i agree. our revolution started several years prior to '76. i would say ww2 might be considered to start in '18. many say 1 & 2 will be considered 1 war far in the future.
Just prepping the public for a major tax increase, nothing more,...
the trump tax cuts will expire (and not be renewed) unless trump wins and we regain majority in the senate.
those cuts helped me pay off my daughter's graduate school tuition. would suck to see them go.
that said, we eclipsed $35 trillion in debt, and i think something north of 70% of personal income taxes are needed just to pay the interest.
well that's comforting to know.
Might want to focus on war fighting skills and not the current woke fads. Maybe enforce standards vs lowering standards
The left has set the scene and waited for this to become reality. They are clueless about how vulnerable they are without that pesky right wing military to defend them.
Anyone with half a brain already knew this would occur. Blackrock and its other backers certainly did, as did everyone else. So why make the loans? Well, if you can't pay a loan, the bank takes the security. What does Ukraine have? Farmland and minerals, among other things. Blackrock and others will take that. Why else would Lindsay Graham make the statement about the vast mineral resources there? This comment would not have been made if the effort was truly about only liberating Ukraine - it was about potential investment/loan losses.
If anyone thinks that Ukraine was ONLY going to lose the war and not their actual land: those people who thought this (and there are a lot of them) need to reconsider their knowledge base. From the beginning Ukraine was going to lose both kinetically and economically. They couldn't make payments to begin with and the financiers knew this. Ukraine was always destined to lose everything. Now, those who could resist the repossession of the country are in graves so there will be no objection to what is about to happen.
Everyone needs to face facts: Ukraine as it used to be is long gone. It is now a vassal state to the various corporate and state financiers and the raping will begin with forfeiture of physical assets and near permanent, crippling debt payments. The fighting is for the financiers' interests, not Ukraine. Always has been. This is what our tax dollars have been used for. The Ukrainians that are left are looking at low wage work, lower standards of living and high taxes for generations. And migration to fill the worker ranks as needed.
Was this the original goal? That's up for debate, I tend to think it was to do this to Russia originally but that is how it has turned out since the opportunity presented itself. In my mind it is worth noting that Russia didn't get much accomplished with respect to moving anything off of its borders, even with the territory gains, as Ukraine will be militarized to the hilt after this is over and it will all start up again in the future. Turkey joining BRICS is the turd in the punchbowl, however, due to Black Sea access. We will have to see how that moves the power needle one way or the other. I wouldn't be surprised to see Turkey in an internal conflict soon.
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a bizarre book find. was trolling thru a local lib and found a book: 1941 by a andrew nagorski. he was a newsweek journalist. pretty sure a convinced prog. book pub in '19.
his point is that after 1941 germany was done for. the thing is that he gives a running account of the lend/lease and pre war US aid to UK. also,churchill's aggressive work at getting us into saving UK and roosevelt's doing everything he could to make that happen.
the thing is this could be a description of the carrying on we have done in ukraine vs russia. putin now being hitler,zelinsky being churchill and anyone not supporting that is not admitting the awful threat to our freedom.
the exact similarity of gov,legislative and executive branch actions are kinda stunning. i mean the exact same subterfuge,lies,pressure and underhanded BS were exactly the same. similarities apply to 1917 as well.
i already knew that churchill and stalin spent huge efforts to drag us in to saving the british empire and communist takeovers of all stalin could grab.
it's just how weird it is reading this like it's today's news.
his point is that after 1941 germany was done for. the thing is that he gives a running account of the lend/lease and pre war US aid to UK. also,churchill's aggressive work at getting us into saving UK and roosevelt's doing everything he could to make that happen.
the thing is this could be a description of the carrying on we have done in ukraine vs russia. putin now being hitler,zelinsky being churchill and anyone not supporting that is not admitting the awful threat to our freedom.
the exact similarity of gov,legislative and executive branch actions are kinda stunning. i mean the exact same subterfuge,lies,pressure and underhanded BS were exactly the same. similarities apply to 1917 as well.
i already knew that churchill and stalin spent huge efforts to drag us in to saving the british empire and communist takeovers of all stalin could grab.
it's just how weird it is reading this like it's today's news.
Pat Buchanan has a good book in regards to WW2, titled 'Churchill, Hitler and the Unnecessary War'. I have an audio copy through Spotify that I've been meaning to listen to.
read it more than 1x. all he contends is compatible with what i know to be true from other sources.
Obviously it's hindsight, but Germany never had enough fuel or oil to achieve it's goals. Operation Barbarossa was also commenced on some of the worse military intelligence imaginable with the nazi in charge of gathering information on Russian military forces (Eberhard Kinzel) being incompetent, having no training or previous postings in intelligence and not even being able to speak Russian.
Pre-Barbarossa thinking was that they were up against 150 rifle divisions, 32-36 Cav division and 36 motorised/mechanised divisions. Just before the invasion this was further defined as 130 rifle, 21 cav, 5 armoured and 36 motorised/mechanised.
Three months later and we have an account (Franz Halder) stating that they encountered 360 soviet divisions with no end in sight, but worse still is that as the Germans had destroyed something like 200 divisions by that point, convinced the end was nigh, they tried one last push just in time to become over extended for a most brutal winter.
This lead to the loss of a large percentage of wheeled vehicles that they never recovered from (the horses that they didn't have enough of either were mostly sent back west before winter to ease the fodder burden, it takes years to grow a draft horse). The end results was that mechanisation was crippled pretty hard, but then again they were also running out of drivers (unlike the US many Germans didn't have basic driving skills due to the lack of private car ownership), petrol, oil and rubber so really things weren't looking good from any perspective.
Logistics are the key, and fuel is key to logistics. If that logistics tail gets too long it becomes hard to protect it for obvious reasons. Think about that in context of this conflict: Russia is huge and has the internal resources to keep going, whatever they need from China is easy to get since they border them. Ukraine is small and while they do have resources, it isn’t nearly enough to poke the bear, and everything is shipped in from all over with the requisite delays. I’m not sure, given history and plain common sense, why anyone thought Ukraine could do what they have been tasked to do. So they need to be supported by others. It doesn’t take a mental heavyweight to figure out supplies will come in through a certain number of routes and choke points and that the old Cold War facilities and infrastructure will be used for various activities. It isn’t hard to figure out Ukraine’s or Russias basic moves given that, nor is it hard to figure out the results. This whole thing was unnecessary and only made Russia stronger militarily and economically, and this will harm us and NATO in the future.
That is exactly how things are going
As you noted Russia also already lost , as it will not get much done , it was teased into action and Vlad fell for it , once they were balls deep , things went sideways, they tried to extract, April peace talks would have ended the war with in all intents and purposes an Ukrainan victory with tiny face saving concessions to Russia . But the extraction was not allowed, and now it like most long wars it takes on a life of its own ,more blood and treasure gets expended more the positions harden. Folks that say war can end today , Russia can just leave, remember how leaving went in Vietnam or Iraq or Afghanistan it took years,and these were from US perspective inconsequential 3rd word countries half a world away. This is not the case for Russia with Ukraine ,it has always been regarded as an extremely important buffer zone (Ukraine literally translates as borderlands)
For US admin its about transfer of wealth from taxpayer and foreign partners into Virginia area code businesses, for much of Europe impoverished Ukraine will be a source of workforce and raw materials for decades.
ME immigrants turned out to be rather poor workforce with an abundance of undesired side effects
While Ukraine might be miltarised , i have doubts as huge standing armies cost lots of money and beggars can't be choosers ,It will end up with all western gear but will never be as strong as its today. As EU and US will not be in the mood to finance it all.
Turkey has been flat out broke and suffering Hyperinflation for near half a decade , but has been held above water with Qatars financial injections , but in general turkey is well industrialised and should do just fine once the 'sultan' stops spending it all,
Hungary & Slovakia Consider Cutting Electricity Supply To Ukraine If Kiev Keeps Blocking Russian Oil Supplies | ZeroHedge
ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
www.zerohedge.com
Do some comparing of our western society now to France pre-Revolution. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
one thing to note. yes hitler was never going to be a direct threat to US anymore than japan could be. neither would ever have had the ability to cross the oceans against any kind of resistance and they were never going to have the industrial capacity to build the ships or fuel them. our moves to europe,japan in 40s,to vietnam,korea,ME were logistic transport against minimal opposition at best. germans couldn't sink ships as fast as we built them,japanese navy was for most part done after midway. their populations were too small also. japan was tied up in china,germany in russia. win or lose they were both done in about out by 43. being drug in by churchill,stalin and roosevelt had entirely different goals than making america a safe,prosperous,secure land. at the time even the MIC was real and happy to sell stuff. we have never recovered from ww2 despite the appearance of success in50s,60s,70s. now involvement in ukraine and ME and the destruction of our domestic politics,law and economy are obvious. got no idea of a fix that won't finish us off even if it worked.
There are probably what about that many "Palestinians" that will be needing a new home shortly...
Seems like a win-win
Funny how the Democrats suddenly stopped talking about Ukraine. It must be an election year.
EU NatGas Soars As 1,000-Soldier Ukraine Raid Into Russia Captures Key Gas Facility | ZeroHedge
ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
www.zerohedge.com
damn. have to follow this. he does go after the deep state hard. also,quite anti israel. also,very pointedly critical of our ukrainian war against russia. i am assuming the raid was asked for by benni. wonder who is next. mcgregor or bongino likely. tucker still "safe" for awhile. too vast and varied an audience but he is in danger and they have tried to kill him before. if camel toe is put in office,i am afraid he will commit suicide.
More likely they will plant child porn on his computer to assasinate his character more effectively.
His character was already assassinated by himself. Served two years in prison and is a registered sex offender.
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