(Warning- this is lengthy. I'm putting in a lot of detail to help solve this problem)
Well, at this point, I don't think there's a single 'hide member on here who hasn't already read through one of my f*&^% threads on this
, but *just* in case, here are the previous ones before I delve in with the latest:
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...9848#Post959848
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...1759#Post761759
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...7441#Post587441
To summarize- for a nearly a year now I've had a zeroing problem with my 700P. The component list is as follows:
700P .308
Leupold Mk4 3.5-10X FFP Mil Dot
Badger 20 MOA base
Badger rings
HS Precision DBM
HS Precision stock it came with
Harris 6-9 swivel, podloc
Pelican case, 3 br home, driven in a Toyota 4R, etc. etc. etc.
The problem is this- no matter what I do and how carefully I set up the base and rings, my scope is always zeroed at 100y with more downward adjustment than upward remaining and way more right adjustment than left. Put another way, 100y zero is far off from what I understand it should be given my 20 MOA base. Just to be clear, this is my expectation- a windage zero about around mechanical zero, and an elevation zero with more up remaining than down, on account of the canted base.
Rather than chronologically go trough the painful and frustrating history of what I've tried
, I'm going to go component by component. I'm going to bold anything particularly noteworthy as well.
Scope
------
Two different scopes of the same model tried. First one, at 100y zero, had 40 MOA up and 45 down remaining, and, worse, 15 left and 45 right.
<span style="font-weight: bold">I took this first scope and stuck it on a flat top AR to test. Windage was now perfectly in the middle, but elevation was even worse- I had only about 20-25 MOA up, on a scope with an 85 MOA range! This leads me to suspicious point #1, at least for elevation- perhaps Leupolds, at a 100y zero, hover around the top of their range for elevation (?)</span>
Anyway, after switching out a bunch of other components, I just got back from the range with the second Leupold. Guess what?
39 MOA remaining up, 46 down, 23 right, 52 left. Practically the same shit. My left/right now does appear switched, but I think that was just me writing down something wrong- see next item for why I think it's the same.
Action/Barrel
--------------
Three different assemblies. On the first, when the Badger base was on, you could visibly see it wasn't pointing in the muzzle's direction- if the muzzle is at center of clockface, it was located at around 11:00 and pointing out to about 9:00. Even after GAP opened up the holes, it was the same. Sent it back, got another- same problem. Sent it back. Just got one that appeared *close* to good. Radially it was still off (i.e. if stock screws are at 6:00, muzzle is at center, the base is at about 11:00-11:30 instead of 12:00). But linearly it looks good, i.e. the base and rings are at least pointing in the same direction as the bore axis, which wasn't the case before. Anyway, took it all out today, and, as mentioned above in scope, same zero problem.
Base
-----
Base is only one of two components I have not switched, because virtually *everyone* has told me it can't be the Badger base. <span style="font-weight: bold">So I'm assuming here it's got its proper 20 MOA cant and is straight.</span>
Rings
------
Switched from TPS TSR Lows to slightly lower Badger Standards. Obviously, hasn't fixed it.
Stock
------
Same HS P one I got with it. I don't imagine this could be the culprit, but hell, I don't know anymore.
Bottom Metal
------------
Has always been my HS DBM. Also, don't imagine this could cause it, but who knows..
<span style="font-weight: bold">What sucks here is I feel like I'm dealing with at least two independent problems. Windage has to be something other than the scope, because, as mentioned, the scope suddenly was at windage zero when I put it on an AR. I'd suspect the position of the base holes with respect to the position of the action and stock screws, because I can visually see it's off, but Remington seems to keep sending me ones drilled nearly the same- so are *all* 700 actions' base holes drilled off at around 11:00 from the bore like this?
But then there's elevation- perhaps that component *is* caused by the scope, also because of the AR example, where the Leupold lost even more MOA when it was sitting flat and not on my Badger. I don't get it- shouldn't a scope, sitting fairly close to the barrel, be at nearly its mechanical center at 100y even *before* introducing cant?</span>
You're probably wondering why I care about this if it just shoots. Well, for windage, I don't really right now since I have 25 MOA remaining in the shorter direction, and unless I'm shooting at 1000y with a 20mph wind coming at 3:00 or 9:00, I don't think I'll ever be using that much. But for elevation, I *do* want to shoot at 1000 and having a little under 40 sucks- sure I can use hold over, but why should I have to? A scope with 85 total and a 20 MOA base should not have me needing to hold over at 1000- right?
So I've weighed all my options. I can't keep sending the action and barrel back to Remington because I honestly think they have no idea what I want at this point- I'm sure they've gotten it as close to mass production standards as they can. I can send the action to GAP for truing and a new barrel, but yikes, that's another grand to spend for something that should be centered, and I'm still not 100% certain that's the culprit. Lastly, I can sell or trade the Leupold (this new one is practically NIB) for something with more travel- perhaps a USO 10x.
But ultimately, this just sucks ass. I would have thought that spending not at the top, but still a good amount on good reputation products, should have put me at equal windage in each direction and at least 50-60 MOA up. What. The. Fuck.
Oh yeah, one last thing- if anyone has similar components out there and is willing to tell me how much they have remaining in all four directions, I'd appreciate it- it would at least help me determine my expectations and might help me narrow the component.
Thanks a lot guys,
BB
Well, at this point, I don't think there's a single 'hide member on here who hasn't already read through one of my f*&^% threads on this
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...9848#Post959848
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...1759#Post761759
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...7441#Post587441
To summarize- for a nearly a year now I've had a zeroing problem with my 700P. The component list is as follows:
700P .308
Leupold Mk4 3.5-10X FFP Mil Dot
Badger 20 MOA base
Badger rings
HS Precision DBM
HS Precision stock it came with
Harris 6-9 swivel, podloc
Pelican case, 3 br home, driven in a Toyota 4R, etc. etc. etc.
The problem is this- no matter what I do and how carefully I set up the base and rings, my scope is always zeroed at 100y with more downward adjustment than upward remaining and way more right adjustment than left. Put another way, 100y zero is far off from what I understand it should be given my 20 MOA base. Just to be clear, this is my expectation- a windage zero about around mechanical zero, and an elevation zero with more up remaining than down, on account of the canted base.
Rather than chronologically go trough the painful and frustrating history of what I've tried
Scope
------
Two different scopes of the same model tried. First one, at 100y zero, had 40 MOA up and 45 down remaining, and, worse, 15 left and 45 right.
<span style="font-weight: bold">I took this first scope and stuck it on a flat top AR to test. Windage was now perfectly in the middle, but elevation was even worse- I had only about 20-25 MOA up, on a scope with an 85 MOA range! This leads me to suspicious point #1, at least for elevation- perhaps Leupolds, at a 100y zero, hover around the top of their range for elevation (?)</span>
Anyway, after switching out a bunch of other components, I just got back from the range with the second Leupold. Guess what?
39 MOA remaining up, 46 down, 23 right, 52 left. Practically the same shit. My left/right now does appear switched, but I think that was just me writing down something wrong- see next item for why I think it's the same.
Action/Barrel
--------------
Three different assemblies. On the first, when the Badger base was on, you could visibly see it wasn't pointing in the muzzle's direction- if the muzzle is at center of clockface, it was located at around 11:00 and pointing out to about 9:00. Even after GAP opened up the holes, it was the same. Sent it back, got another- same problem. Sent it back. Just got one that appeared *close* to good. Radially it was still off (i.e. if stock screws are at 6:00, muzzle is at center, the base is at about 11:00-11:30 instead of 12:00). But linearly it looks good, i.e. the base and rings are at least pointing in the same direction as the bore axis, which wasn't the case before. Anyway, took it all out today, and, as mentioned above in scope, same zero problem.
Base
-----
Base is only one of two components I have not switched, because virtually *everyone* has told me it can't be the Badger base. <span style="font-weight: bold">So I'm assuming here it's got its proper 20 MOA cant and is straight.</span>
Rings
------
Switched from TPS TSR Lows to slightly lower Badger Standards. Obviously, hasn't fixed it.
Stock
------
Same HS P one I got with it. I don't imagine this could be the culprit, but hell, I don't know anymore.
Bottom Metal
------------
Has always been my HS DBM. Also, don't imagine this could cause it, but who knows..
<span style="font-weight: bold">What sucks here is I feel like I'm dealing with at least two independent problems. Windage has to be something other than the scope, because, as mentioned, the scope suddenly was at windage zero when I put it on an AR. I'd suspect the position of the base holes with respect to the position of the action and stock screws, because I can visually see it's off, but Remington seems to keep sending me ones drilled nearly the same- so are *all* 700 actions' base holes drilled off at around 11:00 from the bore like this?
But then there's elevation- perhaps that component *is* caused by the scope, also because of the AR example, where the Leupold lost even more MOA when it was sitting flat and not on my Badger. I don't get it- shouldn't a scope, sitting fairly close to the barrel, be at nearly its mechanical center at 100y even *before* introducing cant?</span>
You're probably wondering why I care about this if it just shoots. Well, for windage, I don't really right now since I have 25 MOA remaining in the shorter direction, and unless I'm shooting at 1000y with a 20mph wind coming at 3:00 or 9:00, I don't think I'll ever be using that much. But for elevation, I *do* want to shoot at 1000 and having a little under 40 sucks- sure I can use hold over, but why should I have to? A scope with 85 total and a 20 MOA base should not have me needing to hold over at 1000- right?
So I've weighed all my options. I can't keep sending the action and barrel back to Remington because I honestly think they have no idea what I want at this point- I'm sure they've gotten it as close to mass production standards as they can. I can send the action to GAP for truing and a new barrel, but yikes, that's another grand to spend for something that should be centered, and I'm still not 100% certain that's the culprit. Lastly, I can sell or trade the Leupold (this new one is practically NIB) for something with more travel- perhaps a USO 10x.
But ultimately, this just sucks ass. I would have thought that spending not at the top, but still a good amount on good reputation products, should have put me at equal windage in each direction and at least 50-60 MOA up. What. The. Fuck.
Oh yeah, one last thing- if anyone has similar components out there and is willing to tell me how much they have remaining in all four directions, I'd appreciate it- it would at least help me determine my expectations and might help me narrow the component.
Thanks a lot guys,
BB
