Night Vision THERMAL 640px Units: Pro/Cons/Best Manufacturer Model For the $$?

[Joeg26er]

THERMAL - Pro/Cons/Best Manufacturer For the $$?

I have a Pulsar Thermal Trail scope - 384 resolution. Looking to upgrade to a 640px unit.

I have stayed away from ATN in the past due to horrible CS reviews. Have they upped their game?

Also see new players like AGM. Their Varmint 640 with LRF for under $5k looks interesting...

What says the Hide?

 

[B-P-UU]

@kirsch is a good resource.

 

[TheHorta]

AGM is the new ATN — i.e. they basically rebadge Chinesium with markup and little to no real innovation of their own.

For better or worse, this is where the general consumer market is heading. AGM, iRayUSA and Bering all fall into this category (Pulsar too, to a certain extent, but they have some innovation).

As of this moment, I think the iRay RH-25 is best of breed for Chinesium. N-Vision is best of breed for Made in USA consumer thermal. Pixels on Target or Trijicon/Oasys is best of breed for high-end, eye-watering price stratosphere.

 

[Jgunner]

With my limited exposure i would say nvision. I would be willing to try bearing/iray stuff if i were going to try chinese cores.

Nvision has been good to me, customer support is great and they are active on this site. They are not problem free, but none of them are in the commercial zone.

 

[Thermal L. Jackson]

THERMAL - Pro/Cons/Best Manufacturer For the $$?

I have a Pulsar Thermal Trail scope - 320 resolution. Looking to upgrade to a 640px unit.

I have stayed away from ATN in the past due to horrible CS reviews. Have they upped their game?

Also see new players like AGM. Their Varmint 640 with LRF for under $5k looks interesting...

What says the Hide?

Your trail is 384x288, which is 44% more pixels than a 320 unit.

Avoid ATN.

AGM is fine. I see a high return ratio among my group of friends.

Pulsar is still great. The American companies are still great, if you have the budget for it.

 

[TheHebrewHammer]

I like my 320 thermal

 

[WhereNow&How]

AGM is the new ATN — i.e. they basically rebadge Chinesium with markup and little to no real innovation of their own.

For better or worse, this is where the general consumer market is heading. AGM, iRayUSA and Bering all fall into this category (Pulsar too, to a certain extent, but they have some innovation).

As of this moment, I think the iRay RH-25 is best of breed for Chinesium. N-Vision is best of breed for Made in USA consumer thermal. Pixels on Target or Trijicon/Oasys is best of breed for high-end, eye-watering price stratosphere.

Murica needs to shed itself of the domestic communists and get its ass back to work. Dam shame that its historical edge in technology and manufacturing is swirling down the drain at a fast rate.

But I am Flir all the way so technically a hold out. (Probably got some Chinese sourced electrical parts etc) and Flir has now tossed us to the curb.

 

[WhereNow&How]

I like my 320 thermal

Hmmm, who'd of thunk it.

320, especially cooled, can perform.

 

[TheHebrewHammer]

If the government wasn't dicking down companies and forcing them to do LEO/MIL on all cool stuff and companies weren't setting MIL prices on nice stuff, than we would have the best options. But until those things stop happening, we are our own worst enemy.

 

[WhereNow&How]

Your trail is 384x288, which is 44% more pixels than a 320 unit.

Yeah but, more pixels does not automatically equate to a better image. Pixel density per Sq. Inch is a huge factor.

My 320's will smoke even a 640 Trail when it comes to image quality, especially at distance.

 

[TheHebrewHammer]

A good long range 320 and a good mid range 640 will give you a killer bang for your buck if you want two options.

 

[Joeg26er]

Your trail is 384x288, which is 44% more pixels than a 320 unit.

Avoid ATN.

AGM is fine. I see a high return ratio among my group of friends.

Pulsar is still great. The American companies are still great, if you have the budget for it.

Thanks - edited.
Also thanks for bringing up the other brands. Bering and NVision. I will have to look deeper into Nvision

 

[TheHebrewHammer]

Steiner makes a great and tough mid range 640 thermal.

 

[WhereNow&How]

What is the housing material made out of for the Nighthunter S35

 

[Thermal L. Jackson]

Yeah but, more pixels does not automatically equate to a better image. Pixel density per Sq. Inch is a huge factor.

My 320's will smoke even a 640 Trail when it comes to image quality, especially at distance.

What 320s?

 

[WhereNow&How]

What 320s?

Flir PTS 536 and PTS 736.

Better image at distance. Plus they hold their POA/POI.

Smaller FOV which is a big negatif for some folks.

 

[Thermal L. Jackson]

Flir PTS 536 and PTS 736.

Better image at distance. Plus they hold their POA/POI.

Smaller FOV which is a big negatif for some folks.

Oh geez yeah no. I enjoy using telescopes for stargazing, not hunting.

 

[WhereNow&How]

Oh geez yeah no. I enjoy using telescopes for stargazing, not hunting.

Boils down to some skill level. So one night I was out with 2 pretty skilled buds that were packing AR's one running Trijicon and the other running a PTS 233. Both their units had wide FOV.

So I am packing a bolt Win 270 with a PTS 736 and they are ragging on me early in the night I was gonna be severely handicapped with that rig up against them. "Lucky if I would get one hog." If I remember correctly. So we happen up on a sounder of 6 hogs and we approach to about 50 -60 yards. Get up on our tripods and engage.

I got 4 of the six hogs and the 2 of them got 2 of the hogs. I am still ragging them about that night.

 

[Thermal L. Jackson]

Boils down to some skill level. So one night I was out with 2 pretty skilled buds that were packing AR's one running Trijicon and the other running a PTS 233. Both their units had wide FOV.

So I am packing a bolt Win 270 with a PTS 736 and they are ragging on me early in the night I was gonna be severely handicapped with that rig up against them. "Lucky if I would get one hog." If I remember correctly. So we happen up on a sounder of 6 hogs and we approach to about 50 -60 yards. Get up on our tripods and engage.

I got 4 of the six hogs and the 2 of them got 2 of the hogs. I am still ragging them about that night.

Indian > Arrow

All day long.

 

[WhereNow&How]

6 power native magnification at 50 to 60 yards is up close and personal. But in all fairness to them, in a different lifetime, I did a tremendous amount of pest control with various bolt action rifles ( both close and longer ranges on running critters) starting at a pretty young age and am pretty wicked with one on live moving game.

 

[TheHebrewHammer]

Steiner S35 is all aluminum housing, fell out of a 4 wheeler at about 20 MPH scope first on rocks. Didn't even lose zero but scuffed up the aluminum finish on the scope. So the finish isn't perfect anymore, but the thermal scope is the tough and water proof with all the bells and whistles.

 

[db2000]

AGM is the new ATN — i.e. they basically rebadge Chinesium with markup and little to no real innovation of their own.

For better or worse, this is where the general consumer market is heading. AGM, iRayUSA and Bering all fall into this category (Pulsar too, to a certain extent, but they have some innovation).

As of this moment, I think the iRay RH-25 is best of breed for Chinesium. N-Vision is best of breed for Made in USA consumer thermal. Pixels on Target or Trijicon/Oasys is best of breed for high-end, eye-watering price stratosphere.

Any thoughts on realistic difference in MH25 and RH25 besides battery life, internal recording, and “a bit better resolution”? I’m curious mostly about the difference in resolution and is it worth the cost difference? Thanks

 

[kirsch]

@kirsch is a good resource.

B-P-UU, Thanks for the recommendation.

In my role as a Product Specialist for Night Goggles, I get the chance to test various brands of thermal equipment, write up reviews, make review videos, hunt with the equipment and answer customer questions on thermals. Night Goggles currently carries Trijicon, Nvision, Pulsar, Flir, and Bering Optics.

One of my main roles is to help people figure out what thermal or thermals would work best for them. One thermal is not best for every situation. The first questions to answer are:

1) What type of animals will you be hunting and in what manner? For instance, stalking hogs or calling coyotes.
2) What is your estimated closest, average, and longest shot probably going to be?
3) What is your terrain like?
4) What is your budget?
5) What type (bolt or AR) and caliber of gun or guns will this be mounted on?

I sent you a PM with my personal cell # if you want to call me and chat about these questions and save you a ton of time researching.

 

[DIBBS]

Call @kirsch, and be prepared to talk for ... a while.

He has an unbelievable wealth of knowledge and will definitely help you get the best product for your budget and intended use. I am waiting to see what new products come out this year, and I will likely re-contact him before making the purchase for final recommendations/suggestions.

 

[monony]

Why are thermals so expensive? e.g. Pulsar Helion 2 XP50 PRO at $4k.

 

[WhereNow&How]

Why are thermals so expensive? e.g. Pulsar Helion 2 XP50 PRO at $4k.

Probably the same reasons as Cocaine & Hookers.

 

[kirsch]

You pay for quality. The question really comes down to is that type of quality necessary. If you looked at thermals 10 years ago, you are amazed at how affordable they have become. Lots of technology in a thermal plus a very expensive Germanium lens. The Helion 2 XP50 is a very nice scanner. Another great option that is more affordable is the Bering Optics Phenom 640. In my opinion, image just as good. Many like the Pulsar battery packs vs the internal battery in the Phenom. The Phenom 640 is the scanner I use for coyote hunting.

If you want to save even more money, you could go to the Phenom 384 25. This drops you below 2K. Is it as good as the Phenom 640 or Helion, no, but it is still a lot of thermal for the money. If you move ahead to 1:35 in the following video, you can see the difference in image quality between a 384 and 640. You see more detail with the 640. For some it justifies the difference, and to some it doesn't.



Dibbs gave a very kind review of how I help people find thermals that work for them. I test various brands of thermals, use them extensively, and then help Night Goggles with what brands and models to carry. This puts me in a great position to help people find a thermal that fits their needs. Send me a PM, and I can provide my direct cell number, and we can dig deep into the topic if you like.