Night Vision Thermal clip on POI discussion.

[Ksracer]

I'm going to start a new thread for the discussion that's taking place in the Eotech/Theon.

My last question was.

What is the definition of Unity related to causing a shift in the image that the thermal provides.

I thought Unity simply meant that there was a 1-1 ration in the size of the image in vs out so that our subtensions in the reticle remained accurate.

 

[Ksracer]

Also,

I plan on modifying my scope sled with an additional rail in front that has live 1moa angular adjustments in the horizontal plane. The idea is that I can mount a day optic to the rear rail and zero it on a target. Then while everything is stationary, I can introduce a thermal into the image via the front rail and observe any Point Of Aim variations, followed by moving the front rail through the normal range of angular offsets one might find between front and rear rails on a rifle. Doing it this way removes all of the normal variations that rifle grouping dispersements, shooter errors, and dope variations at longer ranges introduce using the live fire methods of checking. This could all be filmed through the day scope to eliminate any question of weather there is or is not aiming errors introduced by the various thermals being discussed.

I've already don't basically the same thing with the Yoter-C, except it was objective mounted instead of mounted on a second rail.

 

[Conqueror]

I share your understanding of "unity." The view through the day optic must be 100% identical with or without the thermal, otherwise even if the POI stays the same, the holds on the reticle would be nonfunctional. So with the clip-on set to 1x zoom, it must be as if the clip-on is nothing but a hollow tube from the day optic's point of view. This mandates correct image size and position, as well as elimination of parallax between the two optics.

 

[Ksracer]

I share your understanding of "unity." The view through the day optic must be 100% identical with or without the thermal, otherwise even if the POI stays the same, the holds on the reticle would be nonfunctional. So with the clip-on set to 1x zoom, it must be as if the clip-on is nothing but a hollow tube from the day optic's point of view. This mandates correct image size and position, as well as elimination of parallax between the two optics.

Interesting. I would have said that UNITY meant that the SIZE was the same, but POSITION may not be. It's entirely possible for 1mil on the reticle to equal 1mil of distance at the target, although in a different spot.
Using your definition, my Yoter-C never achieves Unity because it is far from a "hollow tube". "Light" passes straight through from front to rear along it's axis. If the Yoter-C is deviated from it's original position, it turns the image like a mirror in the new direction.

 

[Conqueror]

I guess I dunno why anyone would invent the word “unity” if it only meant “true 1x” but maybe you’re right. To me it seems like the term implies a “unity” of scope and thermal to allow full use of the reticle for accurate fire.

 

[SkyScrapin]

Interesting. I would have said that UNITY meant that the SIZE was the same, but POSITION may not be. It's entirely possible for 1mil on the reticle to equal 1mil of distance at the target, although in a different spot.
Using your definition, my Yoter-C never achieves Unity because it is far from a "hollow tube". "Light" passes straight through from front to rear along it's axis. If the Yoter-C is deviated from it's original position, it turns the image like a mirror in the new direction.

I think the better way of saying it is SCALE not SIZE. You can have an 8k display on a 640 core and still have unity. So long as the image SCALE is trued to the optical de-mag on the eye-piece, you have unity (assuming the a pixel is matched to what the core sees out in space).

 

[Alanthecarman]

I share your understanding of "unity." The view through the day optic must be 100% identical with or without the thermal, otherwise even if the POI stays the same, the holds on the reticle would be nonfunctional. So with the clip-on set to 1x zoom, it must be as if the clip-on is nothing but a hollow tube from the day optic's point of view. This mandates correct image size and position, as well as elimination of parallax between the two optics.

I'm new to the clip on thermal. I'm about to purchase a Fusion 55xr. No reticle or magnification. My rifle is zeroed at 100yds. I understand that I need to adjust the clip on to my 100yd zero. My question is, I have a etched turret, so if I dial out to let's say 400 yds on my scope will the clip on also be dialed in at 400?

 

[Alanthecarman]

I'm new to the clip on thermal. I'm about to purchase a Fusion 55xr. No reticle or magnification. My rifle is zeroed at 100yds. I understand that I need to adjust the clip on to my 100yd zero. My question is, I have a etched turret, so if I dial out to let's say 400 yds on my scope will the clip on also be dialed in at 400?

 

[Conqueror]

I’ve never heard of that product. But if it has a display that allows the image to be shifted for collimating to your rifle, it should be accurate at any distance once that process is done. 400 yards is a long way for most clip-ons though, be prepared for disappointment if the unit has insufficient demagnification on the back lens assembly.

 

[Alanthecarman]

I’ve never heard of that product. But if it has a display that allows the image to be shifted for collimating to your rifle, it should be accurate at any distance once that process is done. 400 yards is a long way for most clip-ons though, be prepared for disappointment if the unit has insufficient demagnification on the back lens assembly.

 

[Alanthecarman]

It's a Recon 55xr. Like I said, it's definitely new to me. I won't do enough shooting at night to justify replacement of my daytime optic. They have a really good sales pitch and it looks great in the day time. And it will zoom really well without distortion. Just making sure I don't make a 6k mistake.

 

[Ksracer]

460' FOV @1000YDS is around 8.7deg which is about the same as my Bering SuperYoter. A 400yd shot on a coyote is definitely approaching the max realistic range.

But to answer your question, yes. Once the thermal is zero'd, dials and holds on your day optic should work as normal.