Night Vision thermal scope ideas . ??

[ericdraven]

looking for one that is i guess scope and can be used as monocular . i guess they all can i dunno . ive read and read , id say budget to 2,500 or little more

i keep seeing reviews and best top 10 ATN thors on all lists , but ive read their service sucks ,


im kinda stuck i reckon , was told the starting point is the pulsar at 3,200 x38 i think ,

i was thinking in 2019 things would be cheaper starting point ,

any ideas , and ive read pros and cons for every brand, except trijcon and i dont have that coin . that is outrageous prices .

this scope will used sometimes on rifles and handheld for checking out the woods .

 

[wigwamitus]

Pulsar, trijicon and n-vision are the main commercial players

Pulsar is the entry level, around $3200 starting point.

Trijicon and N-vision both use the BAE cores and live in the middle level. From around $6k to $8k.


The high end are the military clipons all over $10k.

 

[ericdraven]

Pulsar Helion XQ50F 4.1-16.4x42 Thermal Monocular

is this a good choice to start with ? i know you buy the best you can , and main to look at optical zoom over digital zoom , i found this one for same prices as xq38

and is the there that much difference worth the xtra coin for this one ,
Pulsar 2.5-10x22mm Thermal Imaging Scope Helion XQ30F PL7739

 

[Steel+Killer]

I just recently bought a FLIR Thermosight PRO 536 mainly for hog hunting and secondary to find downed game. It has been pretty good so far. Haven't used for hog hunting yet, but I have used it as a hand held while deer hunting heres a few pics.

 

[ericdraven]

cool pics thanks . will check it out

 

[wigwamitus]

OP, when you said "scope" in your first post, I assumed you meant "dedicated rifle scope". The Helion you showed, is just for viewing, not mounting to rifle for shooting. So you want a dedicated thermal rifle scope ? And yes, you can hold any thermal riflescope in your hands and use it to scan with off the rifle also.

 

[ericdraven]

oopss my bad , yeah im looking for a thermal rifle scope that can also be handheld to scan , dunno what i was thinking , so those pulsars cannot be used as a scope right ?

 

[ericdraven]

im guessing if going pulsar it starts with q38 ? , i mean reading online should help decide or narrow it down but thermal forums and reviews and all the info is all over the place. i mean not one site or review is even close to the next.

what i know is ATN is junk on half the net , and good on the other lol
pulsar is midrange
flir is so so and then reviews on all brands are like everywhere . fanboys and etc ,

im looking and asking here because people here use the scopes and know ,

looking for a rifle thermal scope , up to maybe 3,500 dollars . that can be used on rifle or off .
im honestly just about to flip a coin , ive looked on the net for a week and more confused then ever.

 

[wigwamitus]

Yes, the pulsar naming letter-number model IDs are confusing ... and get used multiple times for DIFFERENT devices.

All the HELIONs are scanners only.

All the TRAILS are rifle scopes, which can also be used as scanners.

All the THERMIONs are rifle scopes, which can also be used as scanners.

All the AXIONS are scanners only.

The new Thermions have some advantages ... they are the new line and might be fixable for longer. They have 1024x768 display thus giving a better image.

https://www.opticsplanet.com/pulsar-thermion-xm38-thermal-riflescope.html

Optics Planet gives 10% discounts to just about everybody. If you call them and say "I will buy today for ... pick your number say $3,000 ... they should say "yes". Other dealers know this ... and if you call the other dealers on the phone they might give you the same price. If you don't like the answer, say "I will think about it." ... That's usually when you get the lowest price.

==
The FLIR 536 one person posted about is a decent unit, so is its big brother, the 7x version. The main problem with those is not the units, but FLIR CS. They have a rep for being awful, almost as bad as ATN. But ATN are worse, chinese "junk" as you say.

For the best overall experience, I recommend sticking with either Pulsar, or Trijicon or N-Vision.
==

Also, avoid the lowest end FLIRs and Pulsars as those have fixed focus at 50yds and get blurry beyond 100yds ... the units with manual focus start in the low $3k range. The low $3k units are 320s/384s ... on the core so less resolution on the front end ... to get 640 units you have to head up to the mid $4k range or above. You haven't said if you will be hunting, or if so what, but many hog hunters do fine with the 320/384 units. You don't have to have a 640 to be successful.
Again, the Thermions are fairly unique in having the 1024 displays, that gives them an edge on image.

 

[ericdraven]

Thanks for that info. I'm pretty sure I'm going to go pulsar. CS means a lot to me and I've read pulsar CS is great. Now I gotta figure which one.

 

[ericdraven]

Hogs and yotes. Plus using as scanner on long camp trips. How do you know which have manual focus. Optic planet does not show that. I can go 3,500 .if you were me what would you get.

 

[wigwamitus]

Look at the min/max focus distance.

Based on what little I know about your requirements I would get the Thermion, I posted the link to above.

If you have more budget, I'd get the 50mm 640, the top of the line. And if you can afford two, I'd get a TRAIL LRF to use as the scanner.

And note, the Thermions don't come with mounts. You'll have to get a set of scope rings for it.

 

[ericdraven]

So the link you posted can be used as a scanner as well?

 

[Crews]

I'd also suggest paying close attention to the mount if you're going to be using as handheld scanner then putting on the rifle if a shot presents itself. How quick you can make it happen and how well it returns to zero will be crucial. Looks like Bobro makes one for Pulsar. I know if Bobro made one for the optic I was using, that's exactly what I'd have.

 

[wigwamitus]

Also, using something like a "larue rail clip" can help make the forward spot to place the rail, so you can tell exactly where to place the mount by feel. Then you can practice it 100 times in the dark and get it to be repeatable.

 

[wigwamitus]

... So the link you posted can be used as a scanner as well? ...

Yup. As I said above, any thermal rifle scope can be held in your hands off the rifle, and used as a scanner.

 

[wigwamitus]

 

[Crews]

Also, using something like a "larue rail clip" can help make the forward spot to place the rail, so you can tell exactly where to place the mount by feel. Then you can practice it 100 times in the dark and get it to be repeatable.

As long as the mount itself isn't a Larue. Good God almighty those things are hard to get on a rail fast.

 

[wigwamitus]

I have some larue mounts ... after 100 times ... its pretty fast ... but I've had bobro mounts also and they are really nice ... and adapt to various "standard mil-spec" rail sizes auto-magically !!!

But if you practice 100 times in the dark ... it gets faster and faster. I could mount that Apollo with one hand in seconds.

 

[wigwamitus]

@Crews can you see my pics two posts up ? I ask, cause those are from a different service and want to make sure folks other than me can see them. Thanks !

 

[Crews]

no pictures on my computer sir.

 

[wigwamitus]

@Crews I changed it, could you look again please ??

 

[Steel+Killer]

I can see them on my iPhone.

 

[Aescobar17]

I sold a very low usage XP38 for $3k last month. I’d say look for a similar deal.

 

[PlinkIt]

If you want a scanner... That can be used to shoot

The pulsar FXQ does make a pretty good scanner that can be used as a clip on

 

[ericdraven]

been checking some dealers have not found one that will take off that 10% like planet optics will. so i might just order from them , even thou i like helping out the smaller market but oh well.

 

[CBDR]

im guessing if going pulsar it starts with q38 ? , i mean reading online should help decide or narrow it down but thermal forums and reviews and all the info is all over the place. i mean not one site or review is even close to the next.

what i know is ATN is junk on half the net , and good on the other lol
pulsar is midrange
flir is so so and then reviews on all brands are like everywhere . fanboys and etc ,

im looking and asking here because people here use the scopes and know ,

looking for a rifle thermal scope , up to maybe 3,500 dollars . that can be used on rifle or off .
im honestly just about to flip a coin , ive looked on the net for a week and more confused then ever.

Find a used Zeus. Four years strong and still knocking them down.

 

[wigwamitus]

Speaking of which, I know a guy selling a used Zeus !

(75mm 640)

 

[ericdraven]

what is model ? and how much ? ive been looking on optics planet and they friggin charge tax to here in nc grrr

 

[wigwamitus]

PM sent

 

[M76]

I get wanting to be able to scan without having to shoulder your rifle constantly but taking your optic off and on is going to cause accuracy problems. Couple that with trying to take it off and on in the dark and you aren't going to get a lot of shots off before the game is gone or you spook them making noise. You need to consider what distances you will be hunting at. If you hunt in heavily wooded areas you don't need a huge objective lens to detect animals. You also don't need huge magnification. Thermals are not like optical scopes where you have the same clarity at all magnification. Basically you are looking at a digital image on a mini tv screen. Just like the camera on your cell phone, as you zoom in the image gets fussy. Resolution and starting magnification are very important to clarity with thermals. They also affect the price tag. The higher the resolution the more you will be able to zoom in before things get super fuzzy. If you notice the magnification ranges in thermals double as you zoom in. For example a Zeus 640 2x-16x magnifies like this. 2x, 4x, 8x, 16x. Each time you step up in zoom your resolution is cut in half as well. At 2x you are at 640. At 4x 320, 8x 170 and 16x 85. This is why you need to consider where you will hunt mostly and how long your shots will be. If most of your shots will be over 200 yards I would get something with a starting magnification of at least 4x. If less than 200 yards then I would get something that starts at 2x. Under 200 yds with a 4x gets difficult because the field of view is smaller. Whatever resolution you buy the starting magnification is where your resolution will start. It will cut in half each step you increase the zoom. My advise is to find a dealer that has several different models in stock so you can put your hands on them and look through them before you buy. Basing your purchase off of advertised images for a particular model will likely result in disappointment. Buying used is a gamble unless you know the seller well. The warranties on thermals are generally only a couple years and may only cover certain components. I spent over a year researching before I bought mine. $3500 is a lot of scratch to lay down to be disappointed. Take your time. You won't be sorry. You may also find by waiting a little longer and saving more you will be able to buy better equipment.

 

[jeepwilson]

Call Marshall at Sport Optics. I know you said ATN is out but a friend of mine called directly to ATN asking questions about thermals and got an crazy deal from them on a Thor 4. I had a bad experience with ATN years back that left me not considering them in my thermal search.

 

[ericdraven]

well i went with pulsar qd50 , found online scope site , that had some free accessories , i was gonna go xp but 1,200 difference it would not benefit me as im not a big hunter , and for scoping and pest control it fits thee bill, plus no sales tax, come with free pulsar qd mount , pulsar batter pack , s different eye shutter and a sticker lol . so i get pretty good scope with some freebies. thanks to all for the reviews and info .

 

[DODGER03]

I run a flir 536 and I love it for coyote hunting open flat fields but if your using for for tight quarters, around trees or Brush inside 100 yards I would look at something with a lower base mag. 4 power takes a lot of FOV but in turn makes it nice for coyote hunting because I never have to zoom in to identify or shoot

 

[krimet]

For what it’s worth, I’ve actually had pretty good luck with ATN. However, I just got into NV/thermal about 6-8 months ago. So, maybe I just haven’t tried good scopes to compare them to. In my case, it was a 4K pro. Then my father in law picked up a Thor 4 that I now borrow every time I go hog hunting. I have seen some wonky stuff come up, but it usually gets sorted out with a firmware update.

 

[Prebanpaul]

I asked @wigwamitus about a thousand questions. He stirred me to the pulsar. I found a screaming deal on the site for a Pulsar
xp50 apex. It is an older model, but I have zero issues with it. I bought it for 2k. There is one on eBay that is the same model but the 38mm objective and it's around 2k I think.

I was able to detect two deer that were sitting in soybeans tonight at about 600yards. I could only detect their heads. I was able to stalk within 44 yards of them before they got up and left.

 

[djones01]

Speaking of which, I know a guy selling a used Zeus !

(75mm 640)

whaddya know. i happen to have such a scope. guess i'm a little late though. would $2,500 have sounded about right? zeus 640, 3-24 75mm. i've posted this vid b4, gut i'll post it again here. reticle are usually set to blue or black, but if it says armasight at the bottom right, it's from the zeus. and of course, the center of the reticle is always visible in the scope even if it doesn't appear in the vid.