Thermal Scope vs Clip on

[Mareshow]

Just wondering what the typical engagement distance is for thermal predator hunting for most? During the day here we typically shoot them anywhere between 50 m and 200 m.

I'm trying to decide between putting a clip on in front of an LVPO or running a dedicated thermal scope. so far the YT consensus is mixed. I like the idea of a clip on for observation as well, but it seems you get better detection range with the larger dedicated set ups.

 

[SkyScrapin]

Clipons generally extend your range, but they primarily provide continuity of systems from day to night.

For 50-200m a clipon will add more weight to your kit than a TWS to accomplish the same task. The TWS requires a dedicated system or tolerance for re-zero before use.

Different strokes.

ETA: engagement varies broadly with terrain, species and shooter ability. As example, I rarely shoot over 300y on pigs unless the sounder is running, but I wouldn’t hesitate to shoot a yote further with the right kit. My goal is to kill them as close as possible.

 

[Rancid Coolaid]

I have gone through exactly what you are asking and, given what I do, I chose both for different situations.

The key benefit to dedicated thermal is ease of use, and a zero that you trust to not deviate. The downside is you have a dedicated thermal gun.

The key benefit to clip on is you wander the earth with one rifle, and go thermal when thermal is needed. The main downside is more complexity - and some level of concern on zero.

You also have to consider thermal use when deciding what primary optic to run, if you decide on clip-on. You said a LPVO, which is a good choice.

For a few years, I had a secondary rifle - 6.5 Grendel - with dedicated thermal; but it wasn't enough gun for what I was taking. I have now gone to running my 300WM with a thermal clip-on and love the setup.

One final note: putting a clip-on on a conventionally stocked rifle is a pain in the ass. I had to swap to a chassis for ease of mount/dismount; but, once done, I won't go back.

AR= easy clip-on. McMillan HTG = shitshow...

 

[SkyScrapin]

I have gone through exactly what you are asking and, given what I do, I chose both for different situations.

The key benefit to dedicated thermal is ease of use, and a zero that you trust to not deviate. The downside is you have a dedicated thermal gun.

The key benefit to clip on is you wander the earth with one rifle, and go thermal when thermal is needed. The main downside is more complexity - and some level of concern on zero.

You also have to consider thermal use when deciding what primary optic to run, if you decide on clip-on. You said a LPVO, which is a good choice.

For a few years, I had a secondary rifle - 6.5 Grendel - with dedicated thermal; but it wasn't enough gun for what I was taking. I have now gone to running my 300WM with a thermal clip-on and love the setup.

One final note: putting a clip-on on a conventionally stocked rifle is a pain in the ass. I had to swap to a chassis for ease of mount/dismount; but, once done, I won't go back.

AR= easy clip-on. McMillan HTG = shitshow...

Well said.

 

[Mareshow]

I have gone through exactly what you are asking and, given what I do, I chose both for different situations.

The key benefit to dedicated thermal is ease of use, and a zero that you trust to not deviate. The downside is you have a dedicated thermal gun.

The key benefit to clip on is you wander the earth with one rifle, and go thermal when thermal is needed. The main downside is more complexity - and some level of concern on zero.

You also have to consider thermal use when deciding what primary optic to run, if you decide on clip-on. You said a LPVO, which is a good choice.

For a few years, I had a secondary rifle - 6.5 Grendel - with dedicated thermal; but it wasn't enough gun for what I was taking. I have now gone to running my 300WM with a thermal clip-on and love the setup.

One final note: putting a clip-on on a conventionally stocked rifle is a pain in the ass. I had to swap to a chassis for ease of mount/dismount; but, once done, I won't go back.

AR= easy clip-on. McMillan HTG = shitshow...

this is exactly the type of feedback I'm looking for.

for Clip on I would use it on two optics a 1-8 LVPO (on a 223) as well as potentially a PMII 5-25 (on a multi cal, but primarily 300 PRC), though my issue with this is I've read 5x on the low end might be too high of magnification for a clip on. the one I'm looking at has the ability to load profiles for different guns so zero hold shouldn't be an issue

Dedicated would be a 6 XC

Both set ups have flat rails so mounting shouldn't be an issue.

 

[Rancid Coolaid]

Most can hold multiple profiles. And zeroing thermal clip-on can be a pain.

For me, most thermal shots are 0-200 yards, but I am mounting to a gun that can get me beyond 800 reliably.

The task picks the gear. Tell us more about the task, else I am just describing what I do and why.

 

[RTH1800]

Rancid,
What are night shooting with a 300 Win Mag? Moose? Grizzlies?

 

[Rancid Coolaid]

Very big deer, big hogs, some exotics, and sometimes yotes and bobcats.

Most of my efforts are in south Texas, where everything has thorns or fangs or claws - and they all wanna kill me. And brush is very thick, if an animal runs 50 yards, you might not find it. I've spent enough hours picking cactus needles and various thorns and stingers out of hard-to-reach places to play the "I can kill it with a lesser gun" game. I want the DRT shot, and 190-gr TTSX at about 2950 is my ticket. I often ruin some meat, but nothing runs away.
Actually, that's not exactly true, I've had a few yotes run away, too small for good bullet expansion. They die, no question, but they sometimes run, Hit in the right place, it will literally cut small animals in half, is not a pretty thing, but is exceedingly effective.

Aforementioned Grendel isn't enough gun for a trophy animal 300 yards out with no tracking, the WM is... and thus the desire to go clip-on. I have a confidence gun that has taken game 600+ yards out, and now it can do work in the dark too.

(I became a 300WM convert when I took it to S. Africa and everything dropped to a single round. Now when I trophy hunt, it is almost always 300WM and almost always 190-gr TTSX...)

 

[RTH1800]

Thanks!

You are shooting trophy deer at night?

Just curious.

 

[Rancid Coolaid]

No.


Pigs and yotes and bobcats: they mostly come at night... mostly.

 

[RTH1800]

I bet a bobcat blows up with a 300 WM if any bone is touched. They are pretty soft.

 

[wigwamitus]

The primary benefit of thermal clipons is for longer distances, being able to use your day scope reticle. If you are shooting critters under 300yds, a thermal weapons sight (TWS) is a much cheaper option. Long distance thermal clipons (LDTC) that we can buy and that are highly collimated have MSRPs from $15k to $25k. A USA made TWS that will work out to 500yds (and up) will run $9.5k MSRP with a built in range finder.
Chinese TWS that will work out to 200yds are MSRP under $2k.
Most people on the hide have more than one rifle, so if you want to set the purpose for one of your rifles to be your night critter rifle, then the TWS option will get you there for a lot less $$.
If you usually shoot critters over 500yds, then LDTC is the way to go, start saving. It took me 2 years to save for 1 x LDTC and wife unit still jumps up and down when I remind her of the cost.
The 300yd to 500yd band is the cross over point. LDTC will work fine, but so will some TWS at half the cost. Most TWS will struggle in this band, but the higher end ones can get it done.
For 300yds and under TWS is the "bang for the buck" way to go.

 

[Riverlife87]

I’m in a similar boat, my dad has recently acquired a thermal scope, I’m decided on a clip on. It seems the RH25 is good option but I’m feeling like I should wait on the rattler v2 to hit shelves before I fully commit. I’m not overly concerned with size/weight or scanning use, mainly just clip on, that being said maybe I should be concerned about those things? Mostly just coyote hunting inside 200.

 

[cake5150]

Very big deer, big hogs, some exotics, and sometimes yotes and bobcats.

Most of my efforts are in south Texas, where everything has thorns or fangs or claws - and they all wanna kill me. And brush is very thick, if an animal runs 50 yards, you might not find it. I've spent enough hours picking cactus needles and various thorns and stingers out of hard-to-reach places to play the "I can kill it with a lesser gun" game. I want the DRT shot, and 190-gr TTSX at about 2950 is my ticket. I often ruin some meat, but nothing runs away.
Actually, that's not exactly true, I've had a few yotes run away, too small for good bullet expansion. They die, no question, but they sometimes run, Hit in the right place, it will literally cut small animals in half, is not a pretty thing, but is exceedingly effective.

Aforementioned Grendel isn't enough gun for a trophy animal 300 yards out with no tracking, the WM is... and thus the desire to go clip-on. I have a confidence gun that has taken game 600+ yards out, and now it can do work in the dark too.

(I became a 300WM convert when I took it to S. Africa and everything dropped to a single round. Now when I trophy hunt, it is almost always 300WM and almost always 190-gr TTSX...)

Your post has inspired me to integrate NV into my 300 WM. I intentionally left space for my Mk11 SIMRAD cap should I decide to do NV shenanigans with it in the future. This place is a bad influence

 

[Rancid Coolaid]

No no no, NODs is a different conversation. This has been about thermal.
The helmet-mounted dual aviator-tube with SBR and IR laser is a whole other conversation.

To be clear.

 

[mheimer_45]

Bering optics yoter clip on and be done with it.

 

[SkyScrapin]

Rancid,
What are night shooting with a 300 Win Mag? Moose? Grizzlies?

Hey now, don't knock it till you try it.

I'm shooting a 300wm 20" with 190s at the moment. It's fun!

 

[st1650]

Well the obvious answer is buy BOTH

Get your dedicated night rifle a proper 640 WMT
Then get a base 1x thermal that can do both helmet/scan/clip-on, you'll most likely be using it as a scanner 90% of the time but can use it in front of a LPVO if required. Maybe on a spare gun or on a buddy's gun.

 

[Mareshow]

Most can hold multiple profiles. And zeroing thermal clip-on can be a pain.

For me, most thermal shots are 0-200 yards, but I am mounting to a gun that can get me beyond 800 reliably.

The task picks the gear. Tell us more about the task, else I am just describing what I do and why.

Mostly coyote hunting 250m (approx 300 yds) and in. ID beyond that would be nice.

I like the idea of a clip on because I could helmet mount it as well. Unfortunately most things are ITAR restricted so I'm stuck with infiray's line up.

another large issue is night hunting is technically illegal here so this will be mostly for low light situation/pest control around the farm

Well the obvious answer is buy BOTH

Get your dedicated night rifle a proper 640 WMT
Then get a base 1x thermal that can do both helmet/scan/clip-on, you'll most likely be using it as a scanner 90% of the time but can use it in front of a LPVO if required. Maybe on a spare gun or on a buddy's gun.

if the budget allowed haha

 

[jwhjwh54]

No.


Pigs and yotes and bobcats: they mostly come at night... mostly.

haha this made my laugh . I gotta start using this again

 

[st1650]

Are you located in Canada ? If so I have some recommendations for you

 

[Bluedog82]

 

[Dolomite_Supafly]

Clip ons are good if you are using multiple platforms for the same or similar uses. If it is your only gun that will use thermal then go with a dedicated. Also, a lot of dedicated can add QD mounts so you can go between guns easily.

I have an AGM Rattler clip on that will also function as a stand alone scope. As a stand alone scope there are plenty of profiles to get every single gun owned zeroed. As a clip on it will only work with LVPO with a base magnification of 2 or 1. If I put it in front of my 3-15 it is basically useless beyond probably 4 or 5 times zoom. The more I zoom in the more pixelated it gets.