Rifle Scopes Thinking about switching to MIL, steer me in the right direction

[Surgeon_Shooter]

So I've been shooting for a while now and I was taught in MOA. I've been curious for a while about the MIL way but wasn't sure. I always range with my reticle and I learned to range with MIL. So now I'm stuck adjusting in MOA and shooting a MIL reticle....

I have a 5x25x56 S&B double turn with a p4f reticle.

I understand all there is to know about MOA but I need to read up on MIL. 1 MOA is 5"@500yrds and so on. I guess MILs would multiply the same as MOA but really I have no clue! Haha I'm dumb when it comes to that. I just know how to range with it!

Where do I start?
What's a good place to read up?

Thanks guys for helping. I have to jump on the MIL band wagon. The main reason is so I can see the hit and know how much to adjust without converting to MOA! Thats a pain!

Jay

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Just do it, the only regret you will have it not doing it sooner. Previously I used MOA/MIL scopes and MOA/MOA, I tried a mil/mil s ope a few years ago and haven't bought anything else. It's easier, plain a simple. MOA/MOA works but the first time you've got somebody with a mil reticle calling your shots you'll be hating life again doing calculations. With a spotter with the same reticle and matching knobs there are no conversions, dope what you see. The only time you'll ever need to do math is if you need to range with your reticle for some reason, and it's no harder than ranging with a MOA reticle, buy a mildly master!

 

[kis2]

I converted from MOA to Mils about a year ago, easy transition man. instead of 1/4moa=.25" at 100yds, 1/10 mil=.36" at 100yds. So 1moa at 100 is an inch, and the knobs are usually divided into 4, giving you a .25" click at 100. 1mil is 3.6" at 100, but divided into 10, so each click is .36". still an angular measurement, so yes, it multiplies out across the yardage the same as moa's did.

honestly, if you are already ranging in mils you should be all set. dialing in mils or MOA you shouldn't be doing any kind of inches conversion or anything, you should just think in mils or MOA. having done both, I think mils is more user friendly. 1/10 instead of 1/4 increments is super nice on the knobs and especially nice in a reticle.

Only thing I still use MOA for is measuring groups.

 

[Papa Zero Three]

You can start here.

 

[17874]

I made the switch and I haven't looked back.

 

[billyburl2]

Whether shooting MOA or MIL, forget the linear measurements! Especially if going with a scope with matching reticle/turrets. If you need a .8 mil adjustment according to your reticle, you dial .8, no matter what the range. You can practice this with you present scope, but will have to use holds instead of dialing.

 

[Rob01]

Whether shooting MOA or MIL, forget the linear measurements! Especially if going with a scope with matching reticle/turrets. If you need a .8 mil adjustment according to your reticle, you dial .8, no matter what the range. You can practice this with you present scope, but will have to use holds instead of dialing.

BINGO! Not sure why people always feel the need to convert mils or MOA to inches. You know how far .3 mils is at 765 yards? .3 mils! LOL Dial it or hold it and make a hit.

 

[Surgeon_Shooter]

Thanks a lot for the help fellas! I've got a question tho... I think it may be a stupid question but like I said I'm dumb when it comes to this right now.

At 600yrds, if I adjust my elevation up .1 Mrad does my point ofimpact go up .6 Mrad on the target? Also do I need to forget yards and use meters?

I know with MOA a 1/2 MOA adjustment would net a 3" point of impact shift on target. I'm sure the Mrad is the same but I just want to make sure.

 

[Surgeon_Shooter]

BINGO! Not sure why people always feel the need to convert mils or MOA to inches. You know how far .3 mils is at 765 yards? .3 mils! LOL Dial it or hold it and make a hit.

I know what your saying sir and it makes perfect sense. This is the exact reason I want to go MIL. With my MIL reticle and MOA turrets, I shoot and see that I hit 1/2 MIL low. Then I have to think 1 MIL is 3.6 MOA so 1/2 would be 1.8 MOA. Now lets dial 1 3/4 minutes up. WAY too much bs!

If I had a MIL scope I could have simply said ok up 5 clicks! On .1 Mrad turrets of course.

The only thing that's gonna suck about switching is NONE of my buddy's that I shoot with use MIL. So ill be listening to their MOA call outs trying to convert to mil lol!

 

[Rob01]

No it will go up .1 mil as that's what you dialed. Look through the scope and see your impact and use the ruler(reticle) in front of your eyes and dial on what it says. Don't think in inches. No need to even with MOA.

And no you can use yards with mils. It's what I use.

 

[Rob01]

Was typing in response to your other post when you were quoting but yes it is alot of BS and much easier to have the same reticle and knobs. You will have a good understanding of both in having to do what you do as that's what we used to have to do all the time so look at it as a good learning experience while you did it.

 

[kis2]

If you dial up 1/4moa, regardless of distance, you move 1/4moa. If you dial up .1mil, regardless of distance, you dial up .1mil. what that equates to in inches does change depending on distance, but we don't care about inches anymore, because we are mil/mil! that's the glory of it.

don't worry about your friends. when they see how slick mils work, they'll switch with you

 

[RobertB]

Jay, are you in right now? Hope all is well. If you want to come over I have a few mil/mil scopes you can try out and see. I have all the different types of scopes....mil/moa...moa/moa....and mil/mil. All are great but the matching ones get the nod from me. I never lok at any type of measurment except for how far it is in either mil or moa. and adjust accordingly. If you don;t have my number anymore its 318-418-2849. I'm in and have been shooting everyday, mostly mil/mil scopes of mine since I made the swap for a few rifles. I think you will like it once you do. In fact, I'm certain of it.

 

[premierjax]

I agree with the mil/mil crowd, switched just recently from a Mark IV MOA/MIL to a NF F1 with MIL/MIL. Greatest decision I've made in a long time! (and believe me there have been some dumb ones!) Just for the fact that you dont have to convert anymore is the greatest thing. All of my shooting buddies use MIL/MIL. Do it you'll be glad you did!!

 

[RobertB]

Yes, either is great if matched. I do not feel the either mil/mil or moa/moa is better than the other just as long as they match. I know Surgeon Shooter is a great shooter that is getting along just fine without it but he will make certain things easier with matching system.

 

[Surgeon_Shooter]

Ok thanks!

The reason I've been converting MOA to inches is to have some sort of idea as to where I would hit. If I had a MOA reticle I would definetly not use inches because you can use the reticle to see exactly where your adjustment will put you. I hope that makes sense to you because it's hard to word this stuff sometimes! Haha

Now that you say that it doesn't multiply with distance like I asked it makes perfect sense! I feel stupid now! Lol MOA doesn't multiply why would mil?

Again, thanks very much fellas! I think my S&B will be for sale soon!

 

[RobertB]

And on yards/meters. I still use yards and its fine. No need to swap as if you keep everything in just mil or moa then it doesn;t matter how it matches up with a meter @ 1000 Meters or a yard at 1000 yards. I just go by reticle.

Holler if you want to shoot.

 

[Surgeon_Shooter]

Wow while I was typing about 5 more post popped up!

Hey Robert! I'm north of Amarillo right now working or I would definetly come shoot with ya. Thanks for the comments man! Ill save your number and next time I'm in well go do some shooting.

I agree with Robert on the fact that I don't see either method as being better but it is DEFINETLY better to have a matching scope! For me I don't like ranging with a MOA reticle so I'm gonna be a mil/mil guy from now on.

Hey rob, wanna buy a scope? Lol

 

[RobertB]

Wow while I was typing about 5 more post popped up!

Hey Robert! I'm north of Amarillo right now working or I would definetly come shoot with ya. Thanks for the comments man! Ill save your number and next time I'm in well go do some shooting.

I agree with Robert on the fact that I don't see either method as being better but it is DEFINETLY better to have a matching scope! For me I don't like ranging with a MOA reticle so I'm gonna be a mil/mil guy from now on.

Hey rob, wanna buy a scope? Lol

That sucks, I was North of Amarillo just a little while back and did alot of shooting up there. I was in Perryton and then in Liberal and finally in Pratt. I just moved down to San Angelo for a bit but I always know where home is. Yeah, save that number.

As far as the ole Schmitty: I'm good on it as I have more scopes than rifles now and deff don;t need another reason to buy another gun. I'm in the process of building a gun room now so after that my collection might rise but I have ran out of places to put em. But hey, I more guns......more happy I am LOL

BTW: I think Bastop women are going to be the death of me. HAHA

 

[cwinner]

One of the things i like about MIL/MIL is being able to dial and hold at the same time, take for instance three targets at long range followed by three at 100yds or worse yet transitions back and forth between them.......I usually dial up some number of mills to allow me to,hold over then under with the reticle.......this practice has sped me up immensely!!

Another plus is that you have smaller numbers to work with, /5-2 mils is smaller than 17.5-7MOA!!

 

[MZ5]

Matching adjustments to reticle marks is important, IMO, and it's absolutely STUPID that scope manufacturers have been failing to do it that way for so long.

That said, FFP is at least nearly as important a part of the 'ease' as anything. You still have to make calculations, even if your adjustments and your reticle match, if you have a SFP scope and don't have the power ring set 'right.'

So, for 'easy,' you need BOTH matching adjustments to reticle AND FFP. Personally, I prefer minutes (mils are actually kinda idiotic, and highlight the fallacy behind the claims that the metric system is 'easier,' IMO/E), but either works just fine given matching scales and ffp.

 

[308boltgun]

Papa03

Thanks for the video, it was very good intro to mils. They also have other good videos on their site (nssf.org) National Shooting Sports Foundation - YouTube