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Thinking of shooting f class
- Thread starter mitchell mcgehee
- Start date
Re: Thinking of shooting f class
Oh, yes; that has pretty much always been my plan. Nothing ominous to be implied from my comments. I'm just trying to adjust my activities to my capabilities. I just don't have a yen to tackle my weight in wildcats these days. I apologize if I gave anyone a start.
Greg
Oh, yes; that has pretty much always been my plan. Nothing ominous to be implied from my comments. I'm just trying to adjust my activities to my capabilities. I just don't have a yen to tackle my weight in wildcats these days. I apologize if I gave anyone a start.
Greg
Re: Thinking of shooting f class
Me and SS have had it out before. The way i look at it if you want to shoot ftr do it. Thats what i shoot. Ive never understood why a fellow shooter would put down another shooter for shooting another type of comp. or gun. We all
Service rifles and F Class shooters need new people to shoot. Or else we all have to give ou or do as Shankerester does play with ourselves
Me and SS have had it out before. The way i look at it if you want to shoot ftr do it. Thats what i shoot. Ive never understood why a fellow shooter would put down another shooter for shooting another type of comp. or gun. We all
Service rifles and F Class shooters need new people to shoot. Or else we all have to give ou or do as Shankerester does play with ourselves
Re: Thinking of shooting f class
I agree with Nesika with the exception of his last sentence!!
I haven't shot either FTR or Service although I'm contemplating an FTR match here pretty soon. Although I choose to shoot tactical rifle I admire shooters who shoot other disciplines. And, encourage shooters to get involved with whatever competitions or disciplines that float their boat!!
That's what we all should be doing whether it's our chosen game or another!!
I agree with Nesika with the exception of his last sentence!!
I haven't shot either FTR or Service although I'm contemplating an FTR match here pretty soon. Although I choose to shoot tactical rifle I admire shooters who shoot other disciplines. And, encourage shooters to get involved with whatever competitions or disciplines that float their boat!!That's what we all should be doing whether it's our chosen game or another!!
Re: Thinking of shooting f class
Wow, this sure took an odd turn while I was gone. There was some friction when F-Class first started, both inside the new discipline and out. Splitting off 308 and 223 helped internally, shrinking the Xring helped relations with the bondage guys
I dont think the who's is more pure or teaches beginners 'better' is helpful as neither discipline is without all manner refinements most beginners lack.
I've witnessed two Appleseeds, I think they are great for those who want a few basics. This might sound mean but I think its great training for those who ask what would make a good 'home defense' rifle.
No slam, just I've seen wonders done with 100 rounds and a good coach vs 100's and a poor instructional set up.
Wow, this sure took an odd turn while I was gone. There was some friction when F-Class first started, both inside the new discipline and out. Splitting off 308 and 223 helped internally, shrinking the Xring helped relations with the bondage guys
I dont think the who's is more pure or teaches beginners 'better' is helpful as neither discipline is without all manner refinements most beginners lack.
I've witnessed two Appleseeds, I think they are great for those who want a few basics. This might sound mean but I think its great training for those who ask what would make a good 'home defense' rifle.
No slam, just I've seen wonders done with 100 rounds and a good coach vs 100's and a poor instructional set up.
Re: Thinking of shooting f class
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WhiskyTangoFoxtrot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Glad I allready shot my first F-TR match and loved it.
Had I come across this spewage beforehand I would have definitly had second thoughts about having to deal with another sport mired by ego.
I respect and am impressed by what the service rifle guys do but it is just not for everybody. </div></div>
Actually what I love about F TR Class is the lack of ego on line. Never found a better bunch to help new guys.
.
. </div></div>
Absolutely! I showed up and said to all this was my first match so please tell me how its done and feel free to critique my noob methods and they did and I learned alot that first day and look fwd to learning more.
aw..Glad I inspired the group hug...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tactical</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WhiskyTangoFoxtrot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Glad I allready shot my first F-TR match and loved it.
Had I come across this spewage beforehand I would have definitly had second thoughts about having to deal with another sport mired by ego.
I respect and am impressed by what the service rifle guys do but it is just not for everybody. </div></div>
Actually what I love about F TR Class is the lack of ego on line. Never found a better bunch to help new guys.
.
. </div></div>
Absolutely! I showed up and said to all this was my first match so please tell me how its done and feel free to critique my noob methods and they did and I learned alot that first day and look fwd to learning more.
aw..Glad I inspired the group hug...
Re: Thinking of shooting f class
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mitch1979</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am shooting a rem 700 in 308 cal with consistent 1.25" 3 shot groups @ 200yds. Should I even consider shooting in a f class match yet. I am new to target shooting and would appreciate any advice and sorry if this is the wrong forum. </div></div>
Mitch,
Did you end up shooting the F class match? I admit I am completely new to the whole long range game, and competitive shooting game. I have been shooting all my life but recently I have been going out with the long range shooters in my community lately and have found them to be very friendly and helpful. One even allows me to come to his home and use his reloading gear (from my research, easily a $1,000 set up)so I can shoot for cheaper, but I digress. I am going to shoot my first F/TR matches on the 22 and 23rd of this month at 600 and 1,000 yards. I just wanted to know if you enjoyed your experience and how you ended up doing in the match.
Thanks,
Drew
PS Thanks everyone for the interesting read. It got me through my Class today.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mitch1979</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am shooting a rem 700 in 308 cal with consistent 1.25" 3 shot groups @ 200yds. Should I even consider shooting in a f class match yet. I am new to target shooting and would appreciate any advice and sorry if this is the wrong forum. </div></div>
Mitch,
Did you end up shooting the F class match? I admit I am completely new to the whole long range game, and competitive shooting game. I have been shooting all my life but recently I have been going out with the long range shooters in my community lately and have found them to be very friendly and helpful. One even allows me to come to his home and use his reloading gear (from my research, easily a $1,000 set up)so I can shoot for cheaper, but I digress. I am going to shoot my first F/TR matches on the 22 and 23rd of this month at 600 and 1,000 yards. I just wanted to know if you enjoyed your experience and how you ended up doing in the match.
Thanks,
Drew
PS Thanks everyone for the interesting read. It got me through my Class today.
Re: Thinking of shooting f class
oh ya.. to the op, Just do it man! If nothing else go hang out for a match like I did and ask to hang out in the pits so you will have the ops down before you show up to shoot and there will be less stress when you show up and shoot.
Believe me I am an introvert but when it comes down to being interactive in things I like to do no problem.
Nothing like the first time you hear rounds zinging over your head in the pit or see your first trace............
WTF,Over
oh ya.. to the op, Just do it man! If nothing else go hang out for a match like I did and ask to hang out in the pits so you will have the ops down before you show up to shoot and there will be less stress when you show up and shoot.
Believe me I am an introvert but when it comes down to being interactive in things I like to do no problem.
Nothing like the first time you hear rounds zinging over your head in the pit or see your first trace............
WTF,Over
Re: Thinking of shooting f class
Returning to the OP, it's a sort of question I see a lot, and it's not surprising there was some digression from the original question.
Folks asking us all whether they should do something or not. My answer will always go something like this.
Take the time to go and observe an event. Sorta like 'auditing' a course. What you see and hear will very likely give you enough info to form an educated decision about your original question.
In honesty, nobody can tell you what you ought to do, and you can't form an educated decision withour seeing the critter in question. If you can't decide; you don't need an answer, you need to grow some maturity.
So don't ask, observe. Decide for yourself, it's the one freedom we can all still call our own.
Greg
Returning to the OP, it's a sort of question I see a lot, and it's not surprising there was some digression from the original question.
Folks asking us all whether they should do something or not. My answer will always go something like this.
Take the time to go and observe an event. Sorta like 'auditing' a course. What you see and hear will very likely give you enough info to form an educated decision about your original question.
In honesty, nobody can tell you what you ought to do, and you can't form an educated decision withour seeing the critter in question. If you can't decide; you don't need an answer, you need to grow some maturity.
So don't ask, observe. Decide for yourself, it's the one freedom we can all still call our own.
Greg
Re: Thinking of shooting f class
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Returning to the OP, it's a sort of question I see a lot, and it's not surprising there was some digression from the original question.
Folks asking us all whether they should do something or not. My answer will always go something like this.
Take the time to go and observe an event. Sorta like 'auditing' a course. What you see and hear will very likely give you enough info to form an educated decision about your original question.
In honesty, nobody can tell you what you ought to do, and you can't form an educated decision withour seeing the critter in question. If you can't decide; you don't need an answer, you need to grow some maturity.
So don't ask, observe. Decide for yourself, it's the one freedom we can all still call our own.
Greg</div></div>
For most of us out there, it does not matter what or from where our inspiration comes to draw us into a hobby. Nor does it matter what outcomes such interest brings. Hobbies, whatever their perceived value, serve to distract us from pondering our mortality, and, after all, isn't that enough.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Returning to the OP, it's a sort of question I see a lot, and it's not surprising there was some digression from the original question.
Folks asking us all whether they should do something or not. My answer will always go something like this.
Take the time to go and observe an event. Sorta like 'auditing' a course. What you see and hear will very likely give you enough info to form an educated decision about your original question.
In honesty, nobody can tell you what you ought to do, and you can't form an educated decision withour seeing the critter in question. If you can't decide; you don't need an answer, you need to grow some maturity.
So don't ask, observe. Decide for yourself, it's the one freedom we can all still call our own.
Greg</div></div>
For most of us out there, it does not matter what or from where our inspiration comes to draw us into a hobby. Nor does it matter what outcomes such interest brings. Hobbies, whatever their perceived value, serve to distract us from pondering our mortality, and, after all, isn't that enough.
Re: Thinking of shooting f class
SS you remind me of any number of people I've heard or read who are certain that the way they do it is "better", because a more appropriate term evades me at this point. Sport bikes vs Cruisers, particularly HDs; BMW riders vs everyone else; Road bikes vs MTBs, Wood vs Metal fairway clubs, Sail vs Motor (ok, sailors gotta point there); Sextant vs. GPS.
Does an F class shooter have to learn bone support or repeatable sight picture, not so much; but both have to learn the rest of the fundamentals like breathing and trigger control and to read and dope wind, and in all likelihood learn to reload for precision shooting.
Service rifle is fun out to about 300yds, but after that it it a game that I'm not really interested in playing. I have absolutely no interest in getting a rifle that looks like it belongs on the set of Buck Rodgers. Glad you love it, glad you get into it, but "prone bench rest" I think I've heard it called is growing faster and will continue to do so and just like racketball replaced all but the hard core handballers, in a few yrs the lines everywhere but Camp Perry will be filled with way more guys with scopes than slings.
In some respects you remind me of my father who can't/wont attempt to grasp anything that wasn't current when he shot a record on the rifle range and won a set of dress blues or his last billet as a pistol coach at Lejune in 1959. I've quit even trying to talk about shooting with him. (Want to see an old man get pissed bring up Hathcock's record round, he swears he had a better one)
SS you remind me of any number of people I've heard or read who are certain that the way they do it is "better", because a more appropriate term evades me at this point. Sport bikes vs Cruisers, particularly HDs; BMW riders vs everyone else; Road bikes vs MTBs, Wood vs Metal fairway clubs, Sail vs Motor (ok, sailors gotta point there); Sextant vs. GPS.
Does an F class shooter have to learn bone support or repeatable sight picture, not so much; but both have to learn the rest of the fundamentals like breathing and trigger control and to read and dope wind, and in all likelihood learn to reload for precision shooting.
Service rifle is fun out to about 300yds, but after that it it a game that I'm not really interested in playing. I have absolutely no interest in getting a rifle that looks like it belongs on the set of Buck Rodgers. Glad you love it, glad you get into it, but "prone bench rest" I think I've heard it called is growing faster and will continue to do so and just like racketball replaced all but the hard core handballers, in a few yrs the lines everywhere but Camp Perry will be filled with way more guys with scopes than slings.
In some respects you remind me of my father who can't/wont attempt to grasp anything that wasn't current when he shot a record on the rifle range and won a set of dress blues or his last billet as a pistol coach at Lejune in 1959. I've quit even trying to talk about shooting with him. (Want to see an old man get pissed bring up Hathcock's record round, he swears he had a better one)
Re: Thinking of shooting f class
What is it about a sport that makes it attractive? Does it matter? For someone thinking about getting into any sort of sport, it's all about imagining that such indulgence will bring about some sort of reward, whatever that may be. But, recognizing most competitions are both a test and celebration of skill, one only needs to apply to the venue which appears to be better for that individuals needs or aspirations. Participation will reveal whether rewards are commensurate with satisfaction and accomplishment.
What is it about a sport that makes it attractive? Does it matter? For someone thinking about getting into any sort of sport, it's all about imagining that such indulgence will bring about some sort of reward, whatever that may be. But, recognizing most competitions are both a test and celebration of skill, one only needs to apply to the venue which appears to be better for that individuals needs or aspirations. Participation will reveal whether rewards are commensurate with satisfaction and accomplishment.
Re: Thinking of shooting f class
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XTR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Service rifle is fun out to about 300yds, but after that it it a game that I'm not really interested in playing. I have absolutely no interest in getting a rifle that looks like it belongs on the set of Buck Rodgers.
</div></div>
I'm afraid you lost me here. How is it the Service Rifle looks any different at 1000 yards than it does at 300? Is it no longer fun because past 300 you perceive you can't do it? From what I've observed, folks thinking about getting into F-Class, consider it as something not too difficult, as well as not too intimidating. HP and other are sometimes perceived as difficult, intimidating, and complex. Hardly something that anyone would likely get into unless coming to it from a culture where such activity was an established tradition.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XTR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Service rifle is fun out to about 300yds, but after that it it a game that I'm not really interested in playing. I have absolutely no interest in getting a rifle that looks like it belongs on the set of Buck Rodgers.
</div></div>
I'm afraid you lost me here. How is it the Service Rifle looks any different at 1000 yards than it does at 300? Is it no longer fun because past 300 you perceive you can't do it? From what I've observed, folks thinking about getting into F-Class, consider it as something not too difficult, as well as not too intimidating. HP and other are sometimes perceived as difficult, intimidating, and complex. Hardly something that anyone would likely get into unless coming to it from a culture where such activity was an established tradition.
Re: Thinking of shooting f class
I started shooting F TR a year ago, did okay but only managed a long range marksman, switched to service rifle in across the course matches two month ago and made expert already. it is much easier to hit that big target than the Fclass one, as there is no room for mistakes with a 1/2 moa X ring. they are both fun and demanding. I did meet a couple "sling" snobs but nobody else liked those clowns either, Like mY dad said years ago, 'son, you are gonna spend most of your life dealing with assholes" he is right, thay are everywhere.
I started shooting F TR a year ago, did okay but only managed a long range marksman, switched to service rifle in across the course matches two month ago and made expert already. it is much easier to hit that big target than the Fclass one, as there is no room for mistakes with a 1/2 moa X ring. they are both fun and demanding. I did meet a couple "sling" snobs but nobody else liked those clowns either, Like mY dad said years ago, 'son, you are gonna spend most of your life dealing with assholes" he is right, thay are everywhere.
Re: Thinking of shooting f class
X ring. He'll I'm just trying to stay in the 9 ring. This thread makes me wish I was a high master. Ok that was bullshit too. Sorry.
My bad. To the op. Don't concern yourself with what you have read to this point. Shoot F class it is great fun you will learn plenty about yourself your rifle your ammo the conditions. Etc. The way I have it figured it beats the shit out of mowing the lawn on sat morning. F class is a game just like service rifle or hp. Some folks like golf others fish each one requires a certain skill set what is hard for me may not be hard for you I don't know. It doesn't matter. Don't be intimidated. I enjoy f class even though I shoot open class with a .243 tactical rifle off an atlas with a USO and tab rear bag I do fairly well and have a great time. I could probably do better with a dedicated f open gun a 60 power scope and all the fancy rest / bag setups but I doubt it would be fun for me at that point. Will I ever make high master probably not. Does anyone give a shit absolutely not. It is for you to decide but I am glad I tried it.
X ring. He'll I'm just trying to stay in the 9 ring. This thread makes me wish I was a high master. Ok that was bullshit too. Sorry.
My bad. To the op. Don't concern yourself with what you have read to this point. Shoot F class it is great fun you will learn plenty about yourself your rifle your ammo the conditions. Etc. The way I have it figured it beats the shit out of mowing the lawn on sat morning. F class is a game just like service rifle or hp. Some folks like golf others fish each one requires a certain skill set what is hard for me may not be hard for you I don't know. It doesn't matter. Don't be intimidated. I enjoy f class even though I shoot open class with a .243 tactical rifle off an atlas with a USO and tab rear bag I do fairly well and have a great time. I could probably do better with a dedicated f open gun a 60 power scope and all the fancy rest / bag setups but I doubt it would be fun for me at that point. Will I ever make high master probably not. Does anyone give a shit absolutely not. It is for you to decide but I am glad I tried it.
Re: Thinking of shooting f class
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: attherange</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> it is much easier to hit that big target than the Fclass one, as there is no room for mistakes with a 1/2 moa X ring. </div></div>
You said, "easier" and explained it by alluding to the size of the HP target having more generous scoring rings. But what about a simple comparison where just hitting where aimed is the objective. Is it easier to hit where aimed with service rifle irons than with an optic? Is it easier to transfer the stability of the ground into the position through bone and sling support than with bipod and/or bagged support? No, it is not easier; and, for any just getting into competitions, the prospect of doing well at HP is daunting. It precludes many from considering it. In fact, for any untrained novice, shooting an AR with its as issued irons will cause the shooter to recognize, as soon as the target is no longer sized to be hit intuitively, that it is quite difficult to hit where aimed. Unfortunately, these shooters do not consider that this a marksmanship issue, since earlier experiences with optics yielded a better result. What do they do? Do they get basic marksmanship training? No, they get a scope, perceiving the only reason they're not hitting where aimed is that they can't see where they're aiming. I see this scenario play out every day. Where am I going with this? Shooting with scope and bipod is perceived by shooters getting into it as something they can succeed with; and, therefore, they are more likely to get into it with scope than with irons and sling. However, without irons and sling experience, the shooter will not likely develop picture and motor memory skills as are necessary to get good hits with irons and sling. Does that matter? I don't know. What I do know is HP demands an understanding of most everything important to good shooting, as well as highly developed position building skills to hit where aimed. And, it would seem such knowledge and skills would be an aid to any shooter no matter what the shooters shooting endeavor.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: attherange</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> it is much easier to hit that big target than the Fclass one, as there is no room for mistakes with a 1/2 moa X ring. </div></div>
You said, "easier" and explained it by alluding to the size of the HP target having more generous scoring rings. But what about a simple comparison where just hitting where aimed is the objective. Is it easier to hit where aimed with service rifle irons than with an optic? Is it easier to transfer the stability of the ground into the position through bone and sling support than with bipod and/or bagged support? No, it is not easier; and, for any just getting into competitions, the prospect of doing well at HP is daunting. It precludes many from considering it. In fact, for any untrained novice, shooting an AR with its as issued irons will cause the shooter to recognize, as soon as the target is no longer sized to be hit intuitively, that it is quite difficult to hit where aimed. Unfortunately, these shooters do not consider that this a marksmanship issue, since earlier experiences with optics yielded a better result. What do they do? Do they get basic marksmanship training? No, they get a scope, perceiving the only reason they're not hitting where aimed is that they can't see where they're aiming. I see this scenario play out every day. Where am I going with this? Shooting with scope and bipod is perceived by shooters getting into it as something they can succeed with; and, therefore, they are more likely to get into it with scope than with irons and sling. However, without irons and sling experience, the shooter will not likely develop picture and motor memory skills as are necessary to get good hits with irons and sling. Does that matter? I don't know. What I do know is HP demands an understanding of most everything important to good shooting, as well as highly developed position building skills to hit where aimed. And, it would seem such knowledge and skills would be an aid to any shooter no matter what the shooters shooting endeavor.
Re: Thinking of shooting f class
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rwest</div><div class="ubbcode-body">X ring. He'll I'm just trying to stay in the 9 ring. This thread makes me wish I was a high master. Ok that was bullshit too. Sorry.
My bad. To the op. Don't concern yourself with what you have read to this point. Shoot F class it is great fun you will learn plenty about yourself your rifle your ammo the conditions. Etc. The way I have it figured it beats the shit out of mowing the lawn on sat morning. F class is a game just like service rifle or hp. Some folks like golf others fish each one requires a certain skill set what is hard for me may not be hard for you I don't know. It doesn't matter. Don't be intimidated. I enjoy f class even though I shoot open class with a .243 tactical rifle off an atlas with a USO and tab rear bag I do fairly well and have a great time. I could probably do better with a dedicated f open gun a 60 power scope and all the fancy rest / bag setups but I doubt it would be fun for me at that point. Will I ever make high master probably not. Does anyone give a shit absolutely not. It is for you to decide but I am glad I tried it. </div></div>
I completely understand your approach and attitude. Back in the late 80s early 90s when I was shooting USPSA/IPSC I ran with a 45. This was back in the early days before there were multiple classes, whether you were running a tricked out 38 sooper with optics or a box stock 1911 45. I was running a set of low profile Millet sights, I did put a simple 2 chamber comp on it. If l If I was really going to be competitive against the other shooters I would have needed to go with a 38 Super with a red dot, but I wanted to shoot my 45. I did, it was fun, more fun that golf, which is when and why I quit that silly pursuit.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rwest</div><div class="ubbcode-body">X ring. He'll I'm just trying to stay in the 9 ring. This thread makes me wish I was a high master. Ok that was bullshit too. Sorry.
My bad. To the op. Don't concern yourself with what you have read to this point. Shoot F class it is great fun you will learn plenty about yourself your rifle your ammo the conditions. Etc. The way I have it figured it beats the shit out of mowing the lawn on sat morning. F class is a game just like service rifle or hp. Some folks like golf others fish each one requires a certain skill set what is hard for me may not be hard for you I don't know. It doesn't matter. Don't be intimidated. I enjoy f class even though I shoot open class with a .243 tactical rifle off an atlas with a USO and tab rear bag I do fairly well and have a great time. I could probably do better with a dedicated f open gun a 60 power scope and all the fancy rest / bag setups but I doubt it would be fun for me at that point. Will I ever make high master probably not. Does anyone give a shit absolutely not. It is for you to decide but I am glad I tried it. </div></div>
I completely understand your approach and attitude. Back in the late 80s early 90s when I was shooting USPSA/IPSC I ran with a 45. This was back in the early days before there were multiple classes, whether you were running a tricked out 38 sooper with optics or a box stock 1911 45. I was running a set of low profile Millet sights, I did put a simple 2 chamber comp on it. If l If I was really going to be competitive against the other shooters I would have needed to go with a 38 Super with a red dot, but I wanted to shoot my 45. I did, it was fun, more fun that golf, which is when and why I quit that silly pursuit.
Re: Thinking of shooting f class
absolutely my point my friend. I do the same thing with 3 gun. I love my 1911's but how does a 1911 stack up against a g34 with 20 round mags under time...not real well. Will I win probably not at any high level. Could I win if I played "the game" I dont know (proably not). It would make me more competitive but go against my grain on what I "want" to shoot. Same with F Class. My goal when I go to a match is to get in the 10 ring with my first sighter at every range using my dope. That, to me is more important than my score. After that I care more about catching condition changes than I do hitting x's. If I can actually catch a condition change (which is rare) before I shoot I am a happy camper even if I hold off too much and shoot a 9. At least I saw what I needed to see and did what I needed to do.
I could probably buy a 1000.00 front rest, get a bat mb550 and screw on a 30 inch cylinder bbl in a manners f class stock edgewood rear bag etc and play "the game" of F Open but seriously wTf good is a 22 lb single shot rifle? They are useless for anything else but f class. I feel the same way when I see the dudes in the coats with the stupid hats and high dollar irons with carts full of paraphernalia on the line...useless for anything but hp.
If you love "the game" and want to win "the game" you have to decide which game you want to play and stick with that. Any of the aforementioned disciplines will make you a better shooter. I just refuse to focus on winning the game unless it can be done with a real world field setup. I should probably shoot FTR but that shit is way too hard and I want to shoot my .243
absolutely my point my friend. I do the same thing with 3 gun. I love my 1911's but how does a 1911 stack up against a g34 with 20 round mags under time...not real well. Will I win probably not at any high level. Could I win if I played "the game" I dont know (proably not). It would make me more competitive but go against my grain on what I "want" to shoot. Same with F Class. My goal when I go to a match is to get in the 10 ring with my first sighter at every range using my dope. That, to me is more important than my score. After that I care more about catching condition changes than I do hitting x's. If I can actually catch a condition change (which is rare) before I shoot I am a happy camper even if I hold off too much and shoot a 9. At least I saw what I needed to see and did what I needed to do.
I could probably buy a 1000.00 front rest, get a bat mb550 and screw on a 30 inch cylinder bbl in a manners f class stock edgewood rear bag etc and play "the game" of F Open but seriously wTf good is a 22 lb single shot rifle? They are useless for anything else but f class. I feel the same way when I see the dudes in the coats with the stupid hats and high dollar irons with carts full of paraphernalia on the line...useless for anything but hp.
If you love "the game" and want to win "the game" you have to decide which game you want to play and stick with that. Any of the aforementioned disciplines will make you a better shooter. I just refuse to focus on winning the game unless it can be done with a real world field setup. I should probably shoot FTR but that shit is way too hard and I want to shoot my .243
Re: Thinking of shooting f class
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: notquiteright</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I've witnessed two Appleseeds, I think they are great for those who want a few basics. This might sound mean but I think its great training for those who ask what would make a good 'home defense' rifle.
No slam, just I've seen wonders done with 100 rounds and a good coach vs 100's and a poor instructional set up. </div></div>
by "witnessed" do you mean you have walked by them, appleseed tries to give the maximum # of people instruction in the fundamentals of rifle marksmanship for the minimum price, just enough to cover the price of supplies, no one gets paid, if you care about the issues that threaten shooting sports volunteer and give your input to improve what you call "a poor instructional set up"
appleseed does not discuss home defense rifle, pistol, shotgun or slingshot so I do not know where you came up with that analogy
again if you have a superior instructional method that will work for a wide swath of the population please share it/ pass it on
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: notquiteright</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I've witnessed two Appleseeds, I think they are great for those who want a few basics. This might sound mean but I think its great training for those who ask what would make a good 'home defense' rifle.
No slam, just I've seen wonders done with 100 rounds and a good coach vs 100's and a poor instructional set up. </div></div>
by "witnessed" do you mean you have walked by them, appleseed tries to give the maximum # of people instruction in the fundamentals of rifle marksmanship for the minimum price, just enough to cover the price of supplies, no one gets paid, if you care about the issues that threaten shooting sports volunteer and give your input to improve what you call "a poor instructional set up"
appleseed does not discuss home defense rifle, pistol, shotgun or slingshot so I do not know where you came up with that analogy
again if you have a superior instructional method that will work for a wide swath of the population please share it/ pass it on
Re: Thinking of shooting f class
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: George63</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: notquiteright</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I've witnessed two Appleseeds, I think they are great for those who want a few basics. This might sound mean but I think its great training for those who ask what would make a good 'home defense' rifle.
No slam, just I've seen wonders done with 100 rounds and a good coach vs 100's and a poor instructional set up. </div></div>
by "witnessed" do you mean you have walked by them, appleseed tries to give the maximum # of people instruction in the fundamentals of rifle marksmanship for the minimum price, just enough to cover the price of supplies, no one gets paid, if you care about the issues that threaten shooting sports volunteer and give your input to improve what you call "a poor instructional set up"
appleseed does not discuss home defense rifle, pistol, shotgun or slingshot so I do not know where you came up with that analogy
again if you have a superior instructional method that will work for a wide swath of the population please share it/ pass it on</div></div>
Appleseed, NRA First Steps, and the Boy Scouts Rifle Shooting Merit Badge Program, are all good starts to good shooting. They can be taught by most any, since they are not dependent on highly qualified instructors for proper presentation. These programs however do not include shooter/target analysis instruction, which requires highly qualified instructors for proper presentation. Thing is, without a basis of understanding about touble-shooting, shooter progression is less than certain. This may have been what notquiteright was alluding to.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: George63</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: notquiteright</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I've witnessed two Appleseeds, I think they are great for those who want a few basics. This might sound mean but I think its great training for those who ask what would make a good 'home defense' rifle.
No slam, just I've seen wonders done with 100 rounds and a good coach vs 100's and a poor instructional set up. </div></div>
by "witnessed" do you mean you have walked by them, appleseed tries to give the maximum # of people instruction in the fundamentals of rifle marksmanship for the minimum price, just enough to cover the price of supplies, no one gets paid, if you care about the issues that threaten shooting sports volunteer and give your input to improve what you call "a poor instructional set up"
appleseed does not discuss home defense rifle, pistol, shotgun or slingshot so I do not know where you came up with that analogy
again if you have a superior instructional method that will work for a wide swath of the population please share it/ pass it on</div></div>
Appleseed, NRA First Steps, and the Boy Scouts Rifle Shooting Merit Badge Program, are all good starts to good shooting. They can be taught by most any, since they are not dependent on highly qualified instructors for proper presentation. These programs however do not include shooter/target analysis instruction, which requires highly qualified instructors for proper presentation. Thing is, without a basis of understanding about touble-shooting, shooter progression is less than certain. This may have been what notquiteright was alluding to.
Re: Thinking of shooting f class
By witnessed I mean I worked the range the events were held on, spoke at length with several of the 'instructors' and a few of the students.
I have also witnessed the more professional instruction given by long time slotted sniper/tactical response men- military and LEO.
I'd say the Appleseed is more indoctrination than instruction. If you are a super cherry then attending an Appleseed is of benefit.
But I guess it serves the eqiv of the first two weeks of military training. Good for a very green beginner. If you have ever attended a professional school run by professional Instructors the difference would be obvious.
I'd GLADLY help anyone with improving their marksmanship. I dont take money for the time, do ask if we use my ammo you pay what it took for me to build it.
If you have NEVER had any training, Appleseed is a start. But lets NOT kid ourselves.
By witnessed I mean I worked the range the events were held on, spoke at length with several of the 'instructors' and a few of the students.
I have also witnessed the more professional instruction given by long time slotted sniper/tactical response men- military and LEO.
I'd say the Appleseed is more indoctrination than instruction. If you are a super cherry then attending an Appleseed is of benefit.
But I guess it serves the eqiv of the first two weeks of military training. Good for a very green beginner. If you have ever attended a professional school run by professional Instructors the difference would be obvious.
I'd GLADLY help anyone with improving their marksmanship. I dont take money for the time, do ask if we use my ammo you pay what it took for me to build it.
If you have NEVER had any training, Appleseed is a start. But lets NOT kid ourselves.
Re: Thinking of shooting f class
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't have anything against slings and irons. From my USMC days, I understand the difficulty, and the fundamental discipline required.
I just see Sterling Shooter as a jackass. Pimping his "advanced" military rifle marksmanship course, at every opportunity.
He's clearly the best trainer on earth. USMC bootcamp dedicates two weeks and hundreds of rounds to each recruit, to establish basic skills.
SS can git-r-done in six hours, with 100 rounds of ammo, on your home range.
And, per his very own advert...."M4 Marksmen's Advanced Military Rife Marksmanship Course is all the training needed for success in any arena where marksmanship is paramount."......"It covers everything important to all good shooting, and, promises, after the smoke clears and the dust settles, the student will know everything there is to know about good shooting."
That's rich.</div></div>
Why do you use the word pimping where the word promoting would be proper. My advertising copy is a truthful description for services offered. Using the word pimping implies that I'm a huckster; and, using the phrase git-r-done suggests I'm a comic redneck entertainer. Is that your intent, to slander me? My course is comprehensive, and uses a facsimile of the USAMU's SDM class curriculum, proven effective for over 2,700 participants, hundreds of whom I have helped to train. You also compare my course, of which you have no personal experience, to your own basic marksmanship training. How is that possible, to make a comparison when you have no experience with one of the concepts compared? Please, do not slander me, my course is my livelihood, I cannot let your post stand, without protest, and, I hope that LL will delete it as it violates a host of forum rules regarding flaming, baiting, off-topic, hate, thoughtfulness, personal attacks, and insults to others.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MontanaMarine</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't have anything against slings and irons. From my USMC days, I understand the difficulty, and the fundamental discipline required.
I just see Sterling Shooter as a jackass. Pimping his "advanced" military rifle marksmanship course, at every opportunity.
He's clearly the best trainer on earth. USMC bootcamp dedicates two weeks and hundreds of rounds to each recruit, to establish basic skills.
SS can git-r-done in six hours, with 100 rounds of ammo, on your home range.
And, per his very own advert...."M4 Marksmen's Advanced Military Rife Marksmanship Course is all the training needed for success in any arena where marksmanship is paramount."......"It covers everything important to all good shooting, and, promises, after the smoke clears and the dust settles, the student will know everything there is to know about good shooting."
That's rich.</div></div>
Why do you use the word pimping where the word promoting would be proper. My advertising copy is a truthful description for services offered. Using the word pimping implies that I'm a huckster; and, using the phrase git-r-done suggests I'm a comic redneck entertainer. Is that your intent, to slander me? My course is comprehensive, and uses a facsimile of the USAMU's SDM class curriculum, proven effective for over 2,700 participants, hundreds of whom I have helped to train. You also compare my course, of which you have no personal experience, to your own basic marksmanship training. How is that possible, to make a comparison when you have no experience with one of the concepts compared? Please, do not slander me, my course is my livelihood, I cannot let your post stand, without protest, and, I hope that LL will delete it as it violates a host of forum rules regarding flaming, baiting, off-topic, hate, thoughtfulness, personal attacks, and insults to others.
Re: Thinking of shooting f class
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mitch1979</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am shooting a rem 700 in 308 cal with consistent 1.25" 3 shot groups @ 200yds. Should I even consider shooting in a f class match yet. I am new to target shooting and would appreciate any advice and sorry if this is the wrong forum. </div></div>
Back to topic - Mitch, by all means shoot F-Class. It is fun, exciting and does not have snobs in it! You can be competitive with what you have and once you get the hang of reading the wind and conditions, you can move up in long range shooting.
Gosnell - I'll relay a funny story a few years back in Lodi. We were standing on the left side of the range at the 1000 yard line during one of our US Team practices and a sling shooter, sling still attached to his leather shooting coat, and with an attitude not much different than what was displayed in this thread, came over to our group and started mouthing off negatively about F-Class.
Well, Dean was in full form that day and promptly told the guy to take that sling and floss his ass with it !! I just about fell down on the line laughing and the negative "slinger" high tailed it back to his end of the range. Not a peep from him for the remaining 3 days of shooting.
In reality, we (F-Class shooters) have a very good relationship with the Palma shooters and the negativity/arrogance is far and few in between because they realize (1)We are here to stay (2)That small target is damn hard, no matter what type of shooting you do or equipment you have (3) F-Class is currently the fastest growing rifle sport.
Oh - by the way, Mike, it wasn't one of your high quality slings
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mitch1979</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am shooting a rem 700 in 308 cal with consistent 1.25" 3 shot groups @ 200yds. Should I even consider shooting in a f class match yet. I am new to target shooting and would appreciate any advice and sorry if this is the wrong forum. </div></div>
Back to topic - Mitch, by all means shoot F-Class. It is fun, exciting and does not have snobs in it! You can be competitive with what you have and once you get the hang of reading the wind and conditions, you can move up in long range shooting.
Gosnell - I'll relay a funny story a few years back in Lodi. We were standing on the left side of the range at the 1000 yard line during one of our US Team practices and a sling shooter, sling still attached to his leather shooting coat, and with an attitude not much different than what was displayed in this thread, came over to our group and started mouthing off negatively about F-Class.
Well, Dean was in full form that day and promptly told the guy to take that sling and floss his ass with it !! I just about fell down on the line laughing and the negative "slinger" high tailed it back to his end of the range. Not a peep from him for the remaining 3 days of shooting.
In reality, we (F-Class shooters) have a very good relationship with the Palma shooters and the negativity/arrogance is far and few in between because they realize (1)We are here to stay (2)That small target is damn hard, no matter what type of shooting you do or equipment you have (3) F-Class is currently the fastest growing rifle sport.
Oh - by the way, Mike, it wasn't one of your high quality slings
Re: Thinking of shooting f class
Papagrizzly,
Where can I get info on learning/shooting F-class in Bellingham. I've been shooting some informal and more formal tactical type matches but I think this would be a good way to get some more trigger time and help from more experienced shooters.
Thanks, Mike
Papagrizzly,
Where can I get info on learning/shooting F-class in Bellingham. I've been shooting some informal and more formal tactical type matches but I think this would be a good way to get some more trigger time and help from more experienced shooters.
Thanks, Mike
Re: Thinking of shooting f class
Hi Mike,
The Plantation Rifle Range here is a very nice 300 yard range.
The matches are held on the 4th Saturday of January, February, March and April. Unfortunately, the "season" is done, but you can go there and shoot all year. The range is open some days during the week and weekends and you can either pay for each visit or buy a season pass (1 year) for $132.00. This gives you access to both the indoor and outdoor handgun range as well as the Rifle range, free.
You can shoot F-Class with just about any rifle you have with a bi-pod, rest etc. Just get yourself a shooting mat from Midway (about $30.00), get some ammo and lay down and shoot at 100 yds and then move up as you get more comfortable. PM me with your email address and further questions and I will be glad to help whether you are shooting F-T/R or Open. It's all good, and fun.
Gary Rasmussen is a coach on the US Team and he is the range master at Plantation. A wealth of knowledge and shoots everything, sling, small bore, position as well as F-Class.
Hi Mike,
The Plantation Rifle Range here is a very nice 300 yard range.
The matches are held on the 4th Saturday of January, February, March and April. Unfortunately, the "season" is done, but you can go there and shoot all year. The range is open some days during the week and weekends and you can either pay for each visit or buy a season pass (1 year) for $132.00. This gives you access to both the indoor and outdoor handgun range as well as the Rifle range, free.
You can shoot F-Class with just about any rifle you have with a bi-pod, rest etc. Just get yourself a shooting mat from Midway (about $30.00), get some ammo and lay down and shoot at 100 yds and then move up as you get more comfortable. PM me with your email address and further questions and I will be glad to help whether you are shooting F-T/R or Open. It's all good, and fun.
Gary Rasmussen is a coach on the US Team and he is the range master at Plantation. A wealth of knowledge and shoots everything, sling, small bore, position as well as F-Class.
Re: Thinking of shooting f class
I Just started F class this year, attended an event last fall, even helped pull and score, decided to give it a go. Got myself a rig, about $1800 into the rifle/scope/bipod/mat.
Now, I'm shooting a 308, bedded factory rifle, off a harris 6-9 bipod, using my fist as a back rest, with factory fed. gold medal ammo, nothing fancy in my setup. It is intimidating when you look over at what appears to be a 30lb gun, worth more than my truck, on god knows what for a front rest, and utilizing stacked up custom rear bags.
It is also humbling, when the 12 year old, 3 lanes over, kicks your ass by an embarrassing margin.
But, it is fun, and allows me to learn. I use such a basic setup when it comes to rests because I want to emulate what I'll have in the field. I will have a Harris bipod, and my fist, will hopefully, always be there.
So, I know, if I can shoot 6" groups at 600 yards in fclass, I can kill a coyote in the field.(however, I am not close to that level yet) I also realize, in the field, the 1st shot needs to be in that kill zone, I don't get sighters.
300 and 600 is what we shoot, 185 with 3x's was my last 300 yard score. 169 with no x's for 600. Not competitive, but, not embarrassing either, my form is lacking, but I am improving, and that is a win.
I Just started F class this year, attended an event last fall, even helped pull and score, decided to give it a go. Got myself a rig, about $1800 into the rifle/scope/bipod/mat.
Now, I'm shooting a 308, bedded factory rifle, off a harris 6-9 bipod, using my fist as a back rest, with factory fed. gold medal ammo, nothing fancy in my setup. It is intimidating when you look over at what appears to be a 30lb gun, worth more than my truck, on god knows what for a front rest, and utilizing stacked up custom rear bags.
It is also humbling, when the 12 year old, 3 lanes over, kicks your ass by an embarrassing margin.
But, it is fun, and allows me to learn. I use such a basic setup when it comes to rests because I want to emulate what I'll have in the field. I will have a Harris bipod, and my fist, will hopefully, always be there.
So, I know, if I can shoot 6" groups at 600 yards in fclass, I can kill a coyote in the field.(however, I am not close to that level yet) I also realize, in the field, the 1st shot needs to be in that kill zone, I don't get sighters.
300 and 600 is what we shoot, 185 with 3x's was my last 300 yard score. 169 with no x's for 600. Not competitive, but, not embarrassing either, my form is lacking, but I am improving, and that is a win.
Re: Thinking of shooting f class
Well, like I was taught; if it isn't fun you're doing it wrong.
Rather than passing over this in our haste to become accomplished F Class shooters, I think we may benefit from some clarification on the subject.
If we're not smiling on the way home, I really do think we're doing it wrong.
Satisfaction derives from meeting and/or exceeding goals.
The person who sets high goals may never progress to stellar accomplishment. That's because goals that are overly ambitious tend to deprive the person of the satisfaction that fuels further effort. All work and no play, etc.
I suspect that the accomplished shooter is an accomplishment junkie. They need their 'fix' of success.
But unattainable goals, or only grudgingly attainable goals don't feed this addiction. Ya gotta <span style="font-style: italic">want</span> to come back and do it again.
I'd expand on this but it would only get pedantic and boring. Folks with enough basic smarts to get it right don't need further explanation from the likes of me.
Greg
Well, like I was taught; if it isn't fun you're doing it wrong.
Rather than passing over this in our haste to become accomplished F Class shooters, I think we may benefit from some clarification on the subject.
If we're not smiling on the way home, I really do think we're doing it wrong.
Satisfaction derives from meeting and/or exceeding goals.
The person who sets high goals may never progress to stellar accomplishment. That's because goals that are overly ambitious tend to deprive the person of the satisfaction that fuels further effort. All work and no play, etc.
I suspect that the accomplished shooter is an accomplishment junkie. They need their 'fix' of success.
But unattainable goals, or only grudgingly attainable goals don't feed this addiction. Ya gotta <span style="font-style: italic">want</span> to come back and do it again.
I'd expand on this but it would only get pedantic and boring. Folks with enough basic smarts to get it right don't need further explanation from the likes of me.
Greg
Re: Thinking of shooting f class
Are there any F/TR or OPEN matches int he North Dallas area? I've found "clubs" in other areas of the state but nothing in the North Dallas area.
Are there any F/TR or OPEN matches int he North Dallas area? I've found "clubs" in other areas of the state but nothing in the North Dallas area.
Re: Thinking of shooting f class
I just like to shoot. F-Class, Appleseed, Practical, 3gun, it's all good.
Appleseed is not just for newbies though. Like anything, you can do it at your level. Try cleaning the course with a .22. Once you can do that try it with an AR with a 4 MOA Aimpoint. I really like Appleseed for the combo of value and tight focus on a specific skill set. I don't go there to practice room clearing, but it doesn't hurt the room clearing skills I already have.
As far as the High Power vs. F-class and which requires more skill...that would seem an illogical comparison, at least until you can start shooting consistently perfect scores in both, match after match.
Now Golf, that requires more skill than High Power.
I just like to shoot. F-Class, Appleseed, Practical, 3gun, it's all good.
Appleseed is not just for newbies though. Like anything, you can do it at your level. Try cleaning the course with a .22. Once you can do that try it with an AR with a 4 MOA Aimpoint. I really like Appleseed for the combo of value and tight focus on a specific skill set. I don't go there to practice room clearing, but it doesn't hurt the room clearing skills I already have.
As far as the High Power vs. F-class and which requires more skill...that would seem an illogical comparison, at least until you can start shooting consistently perfect scores in both, match after match.
Now Golf, that requires more skill than High Power.
Re: Thinking of shooting f class
Fuck me this is a bitch fest
How does one go about finding local ftr matches, I would like to shoot one.
Fuck me this is a bitch fest
How does one go about finding local ftr matches, I would like to shoot one.
Re: Thinking of shooting f class
I have trouble finding any type of centralized Fclass info. I could help if you lived in MS
I have trouble finding any type of centralized Fclass info. I could help if you lived in MS
Re: Thinking of shooting f class
Is'nt the goal here to get more people involved in the shooting sports? I have not shot in either but got on this thread to try to figure out what I would have to do to get involved. But of course it has turned into a pissing contest. It's not about what is the best, it's about getting new people involved. When new people see this kind of banter they wonder if it is worth the trouble.
Is'nt the goal here to get more people involved in the shooting sports? I have not shot in either but got on this thread to try to figure out what I would have to do to get involved. But of course it has turned into a pissing contest. It's not about what is the best, it's about getting new people involved. When new people see this kind of banter they wonder if it is worth the trouble.
Re: Thinking of shooting f class
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doghntr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is'nt the goal here to get more people involved in the shooting sports? I have not shot in either but got on this thread to try to figure out what I would have to do to get involved. But of course it has turned into a pissing contest. It's not about what is the best, it's about getting new people involved. When new people see this kind of banter they wonder if it is worth the trouble.</div></div>
Historically, the role of competitions has been to reward disciplined marksmen. Without competitions, it's doubtful any shooter would become extraordinary, since practicing to perfection is too painful an undertaking without some promise of reward. The goal is not to get new people into shooting; but rather, to promote shooting excellence.
For any interested in the history of the Mac Daddy of all U.S. Shooting Competitions, Google National Trophy Rifle Matches. This event, which goes back to 1884, has both tested and celebrated the skill development of thousands upon thousands of marksmen.
For any shooter "thinking" about competitive shooting, attending the USAMU's rifle phase of the Small Arms Firing School, held annually during the National Trophy Matches, will prepare the aspiring marksman for a good start on any firing line this "getting into it" shooter perceives as being appropriate.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doghntr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is'nt the goal here to get more people involved in the shooting sports? I have not shot in either but got on this thread to try to figure out what I would have to do to get involved. But of course it has turned into a pissing contest. It's not about what is the best, it's about getting new people involved. When new people see this kind of banter they wonder if it is worth the trouble.</div></div>
Historically, the role of competitions has been to reward disciplined marksmen. Without competitions, it's doubtful any shooter would become extraordinary, since practicing to perfection is too painful an undertaking without some promise of reward. The goal is not to get new people into shooting; but rather, to promote shooting excellence.
For any interested in the history of the Mac Daddy of all U.S. Shooting Competitions, Google National Trophy Rifle Matches. This event, which goes back to 1884, has both tested and celebrated the skill development of thousands upon thousands of marksmen.
For any shooter "thinking" about competitive shooting, attending the USAMU's rifle phase of the Small Arms Firing School, held annually during the National Trophy Matches, will prepare the aspiring marksman for a good start on any firing line this "getting into it" shooter perceives as being appropriate.
Re: Thinking of shooting f class
One more thing, for a shooter thinking about getting into any sort of competition, the perception of what it's all about and the reality of what it is may be very divergent. And, since the time and cost of indulgence in some leisure activities requires more than what we may be able to expend to derive any satisfaction from it, just observing competitions can prevent a shooter from from diving too deep into something which may not be what the shooter thought he was getting into. What I'm alluding to here is that although a competition may have a stated purpose, the only thing important is that the competition complement the shooter's goals. These goals may have nothing to do with marksmanship.
One more thing, for a shooter thinking about getting into any sort of competition, the perception of what it's all about and the reality of what it is may be very divergent. And, since the time and cost of indulgence in some leisure activities requires more than what we may be able to expend to derive any satisfaction from it, just observing competitions can prevent a shooter from from diving too deep into something which may not be what the shooter thought he was getting into. What I'm alluding to here is that although a competition may have a stated purpose, the only thing important is that the competition complement the shooter's goals. These goals may have nothing to do with marksmanship.
