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This will not end well at all, if it comes to pass.
- Thread starter Gunfighter14e2
- Start date
mentioned my opinion and questions in the israel thread. if this happens then a whole lot of things will get much worse and our "leadership" will fuck up anything it tries to our serious damage.
Perhaps this is Turkey's play to try to reclaim the center of Islam power for themselves instead of the even more evil SA folks.
Interesting thought , possible.
Being the cynic that I am and I feel all politicians are basically the same everywhere, I'm thinking he's gonna try and extort money or military hardware from NATO or Brandon to not attack Israel.
The hilarious part if this did happen is that it would invoke Article 5, and NATO members would have to side with Turkey 
I think Erdogan is full of hot air here. Perhaps Erdogan is using this threat to get something out of the US, as they know Turkish involvement in Israel would be incredibly awkward for us. What that is, I don't know.
I think Erdogan is full of hot air here. Perhaps Erdogan is using this threat to get something out of the US, as they know Turkish involvement in Israel would be incredibly awkward for us. What that is, I don't know.
He'd have to get Israel to attack first. Article 5 is for defense.The hilarious part if this did happen is that it would invoke Article 5, and NATO members would have to side with Turkey
I think Erdogan is full of hot air here. Perhaps Erdogan is using this threat to get something out of the US, as they know Turkish involvement in Israel would be incredibly awkward for us. What that is, I don't know.
See also the Falklands. We had a treaty with Argentina. Lol
The Bear can not rise to devour much flesh if it's southern port in the Black sea is constricted by Turkey.
Turkey will join the now forming Russian, Islamist, Chinese confederation against the west and the state of Israel.
Turkey will join the now forming Russian, Islamist, Chinese confederation against the west and the state of Israel.
But will it come to pass? Every leader of a 3rd world sithole country threatens this kind of bullshit almost daily. Especially around the Olympics. What is of real concern is the 50th anniversary of the Munich massacre, shitty French security and an Olympics protected by child molesting French fag's and pedophiles in a city with millions of 3rd world muslim terrorists and their supporters.
Oh yeah and America is being led by a demented elderly pedophile and an Indian/Jamaican whore and their acolytes.
Yeah I know it's a tad longer than fifty years. But the current events make this as dangerous as a Trump rally with leftist Secret Service people.
Oh yeah and America is being led by a demented elderly pedophile and an Indian/Jamaican whore and their acolytes.
Yeah I know it's a tad longer than fifty years. But the current events make this as dangerous as a Trump rally with leftist Secret Service people.
Turkey would be ejected from NATO before we attacked Israel, period. NATO is a defense pact, not an offensive axis. If a NATO country decides to go to war against a non-neighbor I doubt that it's tenants are violated by calling bullshit and not participating. Turkey is by far the member of NATO who is way outside the norm both in terms of government and population.
From the preamble and the text:
The old Cold War saying was that the purpose of NATO was:
To keep the Americans in, the Russians out, and the Germans down.
Turkey attacking a non-contiguous nation (regardless of it's relations vis a vis NATO) offensively, and by that I mean an expeditionary force, would be in violation of, or at the very least outside of, the treaty. The Falklands WAS a defensive action because Argentina attacked sovereign British territory (an island owned/claimed by Great Brittan). To your point though, that did put Reagan in a tough spot. Turkey has no claim of ownership over the Levant despite it being contained within the Ottoman Empire. If he attacked it would be purely to place himself firmly in the Islamist camp and contra NATO.
Unambiguously a defense pact, not for the purposes of any offense or territorial ambition, and a pledge to solve any territorial dispute or policy dispute peacefully and without force of arms.
The old Cold War saying was that the purpose of NATO was:
To keep the Americans in, the Russians out, and the Germans down.
Turkey attacking a non-contiguous nation (regardless of it's relations vis a vis NATO) offensively, and by that I mean an expeditionary force, would be in violation of, or at the very least outside of, the treaty. The Falklands WAS a defensive action because Argentina attacked sovereign British territory (an island owned/claimed by Great Brittan). To your point though, that did put Reagan in a tough spot. Turkey has no claim of ownership over the Levant despite it being contained within the Ottoman Empire. If he attacked it would be purely to place himself firmly in the Islamist camp and contra NATO.
They will most likely become this new confederation's nukes.
And the eagle having been stripped of it's feathers will not have the strength to do a damn thing about it.
The days of US hegemony overseas will come to an end.
Turkey is in the process of joining BRICS+ and moving away from the West. This is an issue from a NATO perspective for a variety of reasons, a major one is that their army represents one of the largest fighting forces within the coalition. BRICS is an economic coalition that will create its own military bloc out of necessity as commerce has to be protected with force. This either puts Turkey on a strange permanent footing where their allegiance to NATO is unreliable or they get out and turn in totality to BRICS. Its also a problem because of the US supported bases and the glide nukes that are there.
And that gets to the crux of the issue, among others. Turkey joining BRICS makes Turkey at a minimum an economic ally to Russia and China. How does NATO go to war with Russia with a member that is an active trading partner with them? And then, what do you do to ensure that even if they are in NATO that the nukes and other technology are kept out of the hands of any BRICS nation? If they leave NATO and the nukes are removed then a certain amount of NATO deterrence is removed, which gets into power projection. This is especially true regarding access to the Black Sea since Turkey controls it via the Montreux Convention - commercial vessels have unrestricted access, but not military ones. Russia wants greater access to the straits for military activity. This is where it becomes apparent why Turkey is strategically important to NATO and BRICS. And Turkey going into the arms of BRICS creates NATO friction but also an opportunity for Turkey to explore other options they feel may benefit them in the long run. Once Turkey is in BRICS, you can bet your ass Russia will push on them to protect entry into the Black Sea under the auspices of protecting BRICS commerce, when then increases the growth of the military arm of BRICS, and greatly strengthens Russia's hold on the area.
Turkey desiring to join BRICS is not a minor issue and has caused alarm within NATO and Washington, for good reason. Any real opposition to the saber rattling by Turkey against Israel will only increase the desire to leave the West behind and erode NATO capability and reach. How this is addressed within the halls of power will determine a lot going forward.
And that gets to the crux of the issue, among others. Turkey joining BRICS makes Turkey at a minimum an economic ally to Russia and China. How does NATO go to war with Russia with a member that is an active trading partner with them? And then, what do you do to ensure that even if they are in NATO that the nukes and other technology are kept out of the hands of any BRICS nation? If they leave NATO and the nukes are removed then a certain amount of NATO deterrence is removed, which gets into power projection. This is especially true regarding access to the Black Sea since Turkey controls it via the Montreux Convention - commercial vessels have unrestricted access, but not military ones. Russia wants greater access to the straits for military activity. This is where it becomes apparent why Turkey is strategically important to NATO and BRICS. And Turkey going into the arms of BRICS creates NATO friction but also an opportunity for Turkey to explore other options they feel may benefit them in the long run. Once Turkey is in BRICS, you can bet your ass Russia will push on them to protect entry into the Black Sea under the auspices of protecting BRICS commerce, when then increases the growth of the military arm of BRICS, and greatly strengthens Russia's hold on the area.
Turkey desiring to join BRICS is not a minor issue and has caused alarm within NATO and Washington, for good reason. Any real opposition to the saber rattling by Turkey against Israel will only increase the desire to leave the West behind and erode NATO capability and reach. How this is addressed within the halls of power will determine a lot going forward.
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Maybe.
Schits going to get more than a little hairy just before beelzebub shows up, looking like jesus, to fix up the mess he and his worldly minions have stirred up.
I hope not, they need a lesson their ancestors will remember. I prefer revenge, served cold,...
Erdogan is an interesting cat, he seems a lot more focused on reestablishing Turkey as the center of the Caliphate. The "GWOT" made a lot of folks kind of retarded about Islam, but along the specific schools of the two predominant faiths: they hate each other, and cultrually: they hate each other.
It's why there is never a truly unified Islamic Axis outside of politicians talking shit. Turkmen, Arabs, Persians, Berbers, and the random hotpot of Semitic people in the Greater Syrian/Transjordan area all view each other as subhuman dogs and product of systemic rape and inbreeding, not to mention the schools underneath Sunni and Shi'a islamic theological scholars who all view one another as heretics at best and apostates at worse.
That isn't the law of the land per se, obviously there is room for cooperation and not every single dude you ask about it in Damascus or Tehran or Jeddah or Constantinople or Tripoli are going to agree.
As far as the Caliphates and centralization of Islamist power goes, it's certainly the Turks who have the best claim to it, with the most advantageous terrain and more recent successes. Erdogan has been slowly trying to expand his sphere of influence at the expense of the Gulf States, NATO, and Iran too.
Their operations in Syria, attempts to open foreign bases in the East African coast (former psuedo-colonial properties of the Ottoman Turks) and even their sphere of influence into the Balkans, the Black Sea, and Greece not to mention them now providing Central Europe with a lot of LNG and other POLs ever since the Russo-Ukranian shit kicked off. A lot of this influence - mostly around base-building - has certainly been curtailed but hasn't stopped Erdogan's ambitions.
To me, this makes a lot of sense for him to say. Turkey is the only country in this Vaporware Caliphate who has the forces who are at least somewhat blooded, has the defense base larger than the non-US client states in the area, and is geographically very close.
The Israelis are incredibly casualty averse, they'd send all of their air power and ordnance to Canik and Incirlik pretty much immediately as well as attack corridors going through Lebanon and Syria, they would likely "win" but I think the Turks could scrape them up a bit. Most likely in ground operations if it came there.
I'm not one of the folks who thinks everything Israel does is the United State's problem. If it did happen obviously we wouldn't get involved, the last time we tried to observe an Israeli war from the sidelines it got a lot of people killed, led to a coverup, and the birth of the largest political action entity in the entire world...
It's why there is never a truly unified Islamic Axis outside of politicians talking shit. Turkmen, Arabs, Persians, Berbers, and the random hotpot of Semitic people in the Greater Syrian/Transjordan area all view each other as subhuman dogs and product of systemic rape and inbreeding, not to mention the schools underneath Sunni and Shi'a islamic theological scholars who all view one another as heretics at best and apostates at worse.
That isn't the law of the land per se, obviously there is room for cooperation and not every single dude you ask about it in Damascus or Tehran or Jeddah or Constantinople or Tripoli are going to agree.
As far as the Caliphates and centralization of Islamist power goes, it's certainly the Turks who have the best claim to it, with the most advantageous terrain and more recent successes. Erdogan has been slowly trying to expand his sphere of influence at the expense of the Gulf States, NATO, and Iran too.
Their operations in Syria, attempts to open foreign bases in the East African coast (former psuedo-colonial properties of the Ottoman Turks) and even their sphere of influence into the Balkans, the Black Sea, and Greece not to mention them now providing Central Europe with a lot of LNG and other POLs ever since the Russo-Ukranian shit kicked off. A lot of this influence - mostly around base-building - has certainly been curtailed but hasn't stopped Erdogan's ambitions.
To me, this makes a lot of sense for him to say. Turkey is the only country in this Vaporware Caliphate who has the forces who are at least somewhat blooded, has the defense base larger than the non-US client states in the area, and is geographically very close.
The Israelis are incredibly casualty averse, they'd send all of their air power and ordnance to Canik and Incirlik pretty much immediately as well as attack corridors going through Lebanon and Syria, they would likely "win" but I think the Turks could scrape them up a bit. Most likely in ground operations if it came there.
I'm not one of the folks who thinks everything Israel does is the United State's problem. If it did happen obviously we wouldn't get involved, the last time we tried to observe an Israeli war from the sidelines it got a lot of people killed, led to a coverup, and the birth of the largest political action entity in the entire world...
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