I’d like to hear thoughts from those if you that have run similar set ups on your AKs. Is this a worthy investment or should I stick to a 1x set up?
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Rifle Scopes Thoughts on 3x fixed scope on AK74...?
- Thread starter SilentStalkr
- Start date
I don’t shoot that commie trash, but I run a 3.5 ACOG on my 5.56, and I believe it to be damn near perfect.
If you’re shooting beyond 400yds I think it’s a big help, and it doesn’t bother me at all up close because I shoot both eyes open anyway.
If you’re shooting beyond 400yds I think it’s a big help, and it doesn’t bother me at all up close because I shoot both eyes open anyway.
Ran a Browe BCO 4x32 on a 7.62x39 SIG 556R for years. Fast and Accurate from CQB out to 500yds. Glass was second to none. Rugged as hell. Loved that damn thing and wish I never sold it.
www.browe-inc.com
BCO-005 BROWE Combat Optic 7.62 x 39mm Chevron Reticle - Browe Inc.
Browe Inc, Browe, BROWE Combat Optic (BCO), gun sights, scopes, sights, self-luminous, illuminated sights, night sights, military gun sights, police gun sights, weapons, rifles, guns, hunting, deer, wild game
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Coincidentally I was just testing this today.
I set up a drill to see what was faster, a little magnification to bias towards a smaller target or no magnification to lean towards CQB speed.
The drill was to put one hit on a 12", 8", 4" and 2" steel target offhand at 50 yards then transition to 3 paper targets 5 yards in front of me. Paper was two 12" squares and a 4" circle to represent something like a headshot, all requiring two hits, and they were spaced about 3yds apart, so a relatively large transition for such close targets. They were shot from left to right so as a right handed shooter I couldn't see the target I was transitioning to with my left eye.
Using a 1-6x scope I started at 3x magnification as that seemed to be best for the 2" steel while still being usable up close. Close target acquisition was slow as can be and the 12" paper filled the FOV while 50yds was great. Going to 2x, I didn't lose any speed at 50yds even if the 4" and 2" was harder to see, and the close paper was noticeably faster. Going down to 1x, I could barely see the 2" steel but still hit it just as well as at 3x, while the close paper was so much faster that the aggregate times at 1x blew the 3x times out of the water.
So all the test did was reaffirm my prior opinion. If you can only have a fixed magnification optic, 1x is fastest without losing anything at the typical distances you would use a red dot at. But variable power scopes kick ass for a reason.
I set up a drill to see what was faster, a little magnification to bias towards a smaller target or no magnification to lean towards CQB speed.
The drill was to put one hit on a 12", 8", 4" and 2" steel target offhand at 50 yards then transition to 3 paper targets 5 yards in front of me. Paper was two 12" squares and a 4" circle to represent something like a headshot, all requiring two hits, and they were spaced about 3yds apart, so a relatively large transition for such close targets. They were shot from left to right so as a right handed shooter I couldn't see the target I was transitioning to with my left eye.
Using a 1-6x scope I started at 3x magnification as that seemed to be best for the 2" steel while still being usable up close. Close target acquisition was slow as can be and the 12" paper filled the FOV while 50yds was great. Going to 2x, I didn't lose any speed at 50yds even if the 4" and 2" was harder to see, and the close paper was noticeably faster. Going down to 1x, I could barely see the 2" steel but still hit it just as well as at 3x, while the close paper was so much faster that the aggregate times at 1x blew the 3x times out of the water.
So all the test did was reaffirm my prior opinion. If you can only have a fixed magnification optic, 1x is fastest without losing anything at the typical distances you would use a red dot at. But variable power scopes kick ass for a reason.
I use a 4x Elcan as my general purpose AR scope and I found that I am nearly as fast using BAC with it as I am with a red dot. However, reticle brightness setting clearly makes a difference for that. Elcan has an option to make the center crosshair very bright, so it works surprising well with BAC where I keep both eyes open.
Between 3x prism scopes and 1-6x variables, one thing to keep in mind that most prism scopes have shorter eye relief and significantly wider FOV.
Now, onto the original question: the choice of the scope is driven primarily by how far you will be shooting and at what kinds of targets. That is often more important than the platform it goes on.
I sold off all my AKs a while back, but I will probably get back into the AK world a bit more next year.
If your mounting system is up to par and you like to shoot beyond 150 yards or so, some magnification is not a bad idea. I really liked the compact ACOG on an AK or a smallish 1-4x scope. If distances are not going to go up much, a good red dot is all you need.
Which exact 3x scope did you have in mind?
ILya
Depends on your applications and just how many weird situations you might find yourself in.
Last match I shot had quite a few targets that had to be engaged through slots just wide enough to poke the muzzle through. The closest targets were clay pigeons at 15 feet and you had to hold an inch above them to hit center with the bore offset. That would've been less than awesome stuck at 4x. Didn't matter if you shot with 3 eyes open, only the one on the optic saw anything.
And thats not even close to the first time I've had to shoot through or next to an obstacle that precluded the use of the non shooting eye, even outside of match use.
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I was looking at the Primary Arms 3x scope package with ACSS reticle from AK OPs union with the RS Regulate side mount. The reason being is because I have tried all kinds of set ups except for this and a variable optic with the side mount. I tried the dog leg and didn’t like it, I’ve tried all kinds of mounts up front and failed handguards including Midwest Industries which was junk. I finally settled on a Manticore Arms ALFA Raul, full length. However, even it is not short enough to have a perfect cowitness and anything else seems to sit up high. So I gave up on that. However, I will say that the alfa rail is by far the best handguard I have used on the AK variant to date. Well worth the money. However, it seems that they no longer offer the full length which sucks. So yeah, up front was always too low, too high, got to hot due to being directly above the gas tube, or came loose from bad mounts and so on. So, I want to try the side mount system since I’ve never used it. AK Ops nod for this package had me intrigued. However, it is not cheap. If I do this I will have like $2000+ in a damn AK which is borderline retarded.
P.S. I’m a huge fan of low powered variable optics. I was running those on ARs well before they were cool. Just thought I may try something different with this thing but now you guys got me wondering.
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For that, red dot or a variable with a bright dot on 1x is definitely the way to go (like Steiner P4Xi for 5.56).
My Elcan generally has a Hawke red dot piggybacked on top of it just in case. The Elcan is sighted in at 200 and the red dot at 15. When I can use both eyes open, it is a toss-up what I am faster with: cheekweld and BAC with Elcan, or chinweld and red dot. Given the opportunity, I seem to prefer a consistent cheekweld, but for shooting through small barricade openings, I would be using the red dot.
One interesting things with having a red dot sight piggyybacked on an Elcan is that with the external adjsutments of the Elcan, the boresight between magnified and non-magnified sights is always the same. It makes moving it to a different rifle weirdly easier. Just sight in the Elcan and the red dot is right there.
ILya
I do not remember how bright the reticle on the PA is for sure, but it might not work with BAC.
RS Regulate is probably the best AK mount out there now, so I think you are on the right track there.
For quick shooting, PA may not be ideal, but other than that it should work fine.
I am looking at Krebs AKs, but have not pulled the trigger on one yet. If I get an AK again, it will be one of the better ones and Kreb's rear sight is way better than standard AK sights.
ILya
I like both. I certainly do feel more at home on an AR but that is simply an experience thing.
Just because guys on youtube do that with AKs doesnt mean everyone does. Lol.
A 74 with a 3x and surplus ammo can make hits on a 2/3 silhouette at 500 yards all day long. They are solid rifles.
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