Sidearms & Scatterguns Throw your dry fire bullshit gadgets away

[308pirate]

Throw away your dry fire recoil mags, laser lyte, cool fire, all that bullshit. You don't need it. You think you need it. But you don't.

You think you need the "tactile feedback" you think you need something external to the pistol to see where your "shot" went.

You don't.

Don't argue with me. Argue with him

 

[Covertnoob5]

Love this can’t wait to try it!

 

[nikerret]

I never tried any of those gizmos you mentioned. I did end up buying this:

It‘s a lot more of a collector/neat item than a training tool, for me. The trigger is nothing like live fire GLOCK triggers and every other training task can be done with regular firearms I have.

 

[smoothy8500]

Whoa, wait a minute....Normally I'm in agreement with most of your comments, but I'm going to keep this device:

 

[papershredder]

Just a thought here. Use a double action revolver and get the feel of the hammer drop as well. Even though a revolver has different ergonomics and heavier trigger pull than modern pistols, I would think dry fire training with revolvers would transfer over well to other pistols. But I do get what Ben is saying and agree with his points also.

 

[acudaowner]

still like that new mantis dry fire gizmo
this

Blackbeard: the auto-resetting trigger system for AR-15

NEW: BLACKBEARD X, the original Blackbeard, but now with integrated Mantis X for real-time performance feedback analysis! See details here. You want to be able to do dry fire practice with your AR-15 without having to run the charging handle between shots. An auto-resetting trigger sounds like...

mantisx.com

and there pistol gizmo it would be nicer if it acted like the one for the ar that acted like another round and reset the trigger like the ar version but still useful

 

[PBWalsh]

Buy Ben Stoeger’s dry fire book, paste up some targets on your walls, and get better. You don’t need anything but discipline, time, and to be honest with your sight picture.

 

[gunsnjeeps]

Someone needs to take that shirt until he has a beard. That Miami Vice look is dated.

 

[308pirate]

Someone needs to take that shirt until he has a beard. That Miami Vice look is dated.

That's not what "fear the beard" means. It's an inside joke in USPSA.

 

[308pirate]

still like that new mantis dry fire gizmo
this

Blackbeard: the auto-resetting trigger system for AR-15

NEW: BLACKBEARD X, the original Blackbeard, but now with integrated Mantis X for real-time performance feedback analysis! See details here. You want to be able to do dry fire practice with your AR-15 without having to run the charging handle between shots. An auto-resetting trigger sounds like...

mantisx.com

and there pistol gizmo it would be nicer if it acted like the one for the ar that acted like another round and reset the trigger like the ar version but still useful

You're arguing with this guy


LOL good luck

 

[308pirate]

Whoa, wait a minute....Normally I'm in agreement with most of your comments, but I'm going to keep this device:

View attachment 7891176

I get what you're saying but trigger manipulation is like 1% of what one should be focusing on in dry fire. And in practical pistol shooting, grip > trigger press.

There's a huge number of skills that can be worked on without ever needing to press the trigger.

 

[Haney]

 

[308pirate]

fuck off troll

 

[E. Bryant]

You're arguing with this guy


LOL good luck

Damn, that's art <chef's kiss>

 

[Hoser]

You're arguing with this guy

Ben might be a talented shooter, but he is a terrible person.

 

[Army First]

My sister was learning to shoot 9mm pistol. Without her knowledge I placed a Tipton dry fire round in the chamber and we recorded her anticipating the recoil. Before the video she denied doing it and after she slowly became a better shooter.

I'm not against the Dry Fire practice method in the video, something I will add to the tool kit

 

[Baron23]

Ben might be a talented shooter, but he is a terrible person.

You know him?

 

[Makinchips208]

Ben might be a talented shooter, but he is a terrible person.

Well don’t invite him to teach Sunday school.
Can’t argue with his shooting though.

 

[308pirate]

Ben might be a talented shooter, but he is a terrible person.

Did he hurt your feelings in class or in a match?

Either way, nobody gives a shit about that. None of us are interested in what he has to say because we want to be friends.

 

[308pirate]

My sister was learning to shoot 9mm pistol. Without her knowledge I placed a Tipton dry fire round in the chamber and we recorded her anticipating the recoil. Before the video she denied doing it and after she slowly became a better shooter.

I'm not against the Dry Fire practice method in the video, something I will add to the tool kit

An interesting point that often gets lost in these discussions.

The kinds of things a complete noob needs to do in dry fire are different than what a mid or high level shooter needs to do.

 

[308pirate]

Damn, that's art <chef's kiss>

How about some more

 

[E. Bryant]

An interesting point that often gets lost in these discussions.

The kinds of things a complete noob needs to do in dry fire are different than what a mid or high level shooter needs to do.

I think it's also important to distinguish between different shooting disciplines. I know that everyone's preferred activity is the only one that matters, but shockingly, it turns out there are multiple ways to enjoy the use of handguns.

My introduction to pistol shooting was at my college's indoor range, which offered very little in the way of "dynamic" shooting (this was the pre-CCW era and we were only vaguely aware of practical pistol shooting). Instead, we learned NRA Bullseye because that's what the old-timers had done for the previous 25 years (and a few had done so at the highest levels). So there are some fundamentals we learned in terms of safety, obtaining a sight picture, and keeping the sights aligned during the trigger press that broadly apply to any firearm, but everything after that point are pretty damn specific to holding a pistol in one hand and putting ten holes in the smaller group possible at a fixed distance over a generous period of time.

Afterwards, I had a Fuddish period of revolver shooting, and once again, there are techniques specific to controlling such a handgun as to achieve the desired results that don't really carry over to other pistol disciplines.

I believe that my mistake all along is believing that there is this broad set of principles called "fundamentals" that apply to every discipline, and thus the same practice techniques also apply. What this thread is doing well is challenging this belief, and I appreciate that you've put this forward for consideration.

 

[308pirate]

I believe that my mistake all along is believing that there is this broad set of principles called "fundamentals" that apply to every discipline, and thus the same practice techniques also apply. What this thread is doing well is challenging this belief, and I appreciate that you've put this forward for consideration.

Let's stick to handguns in general for a minute........

A lot of people who are very low level pistol shooters cannot understand the highlighted part.

I can tell who they are when they give stupid advice like "slow down to get your hits" and "slowly press the trigger for a surprise break" when the subject is practical shooting. Both of those things work very well in old school one-handed NRA-style target shooting. Both of those things are flat out wrong when talking about practical shooting whether as a sport or as a martial art.

 

[iceng]

I watched the first video, (or part of it which was linked by 308buttpirate) and at first thought he was trolling.. aaand he is.

He wanted people to bite.

Masterful. Well done. Gonna have to have a few beers with you next time in in USA.

Also, the dude shoots faster than me. Has weird feet movements tho.. very small and "chattery" steps. Personally im a "deliberate step" shooter. Moving your upper body into position by moving your feet is vastly different that having good foot work to position your torso.
"Driving with your body VS driving with your feet and legs". I also use my knee / legs to steer my torso rathet than bending my torao around..

He is vastly better than me.. i may need to re-evaluate.

 

[E. Bryant]

Let's stick to handguns in general for a minute........

A lot of people who are very low level pistol shooters cannot understand the highlighted part.

I can tell who they are when they give stupid advice like "slow down to get your hits" and "slowly press the trigger for a surprise break" when the subject is practical shooting. Both of those things work very well in old school one-handed NRA-style target shooting. Both of those things are flat out wrong when talking about practical shooting whether as a sport or as a martial art.

Guilty as charged, and it's not like I'm the typical Boomer Fudd. I didn't spend all that much time immersed in the bullseye scene, but it happened during my formative years. Combine this with the lack of alternative media sources at the time (anyone else remember downloading copies of Jeff Cooper's monthly commentaries from Usenet boards?) and trusted mentors who make overly broad claims concerning the applicability of The Fundamentals, and you've got the recipe for a lot of training scars.

And frankly this environment persists today. A newbie might sign up for a membership at the local indoor range or take a CCW course, become somewhat accustomed to shooting a pistol in that controlled and restrictive environment, and then not have a clue how to handle a firearm in a more fluid environment.

 

[E. Bryant]

I watched the first video, (or part of it which was linked by 308buttpirate) and at first thought he was trolling.. aaand he is.

He wanted people to bite.

Masterful. Well done. Gonna have to have a few beers with you next time in in USA.

Also, the dude shoots faster than me. Has weird feet movements tho.. very small and "chattery" steps. Personally im a "deliberate step" shooter. Moving your upper body into position by moving your feet is vastly different that having good foot work to position your torso.
"Driving with your body VS driving with your feet and legs". I also use my knee / legs to steer my torso rathet than bending my torao around..

He is vastly better than me.. i may need to re-evaluate.

I once took some autocross instruction from a dude who did all sorts of things "wrong" - he wasn't looking ahead, he made a bunch of choppy inputs and was generally "nervous" with his car control, etc.

He also had a string of national championships in extremely competitive classes.

At some point, one realizes that some of those "important" tips aren't so important.

 

[iceng]

Amen to that. Im gonna try his trigger training concept this weekend, and then do some live fire drills. It may help, it might not, but im open to learning as he is better than me, so why not try.

 

[E. Bryant]

How about some more

Props to whomever selected the soundtrack

 

[308pirate]

He is vastly better than me.. i may need to re-evaluate.

He is. You should.

Props to whomever selected the soundtrack

It's awesome ain't it? I love all the YT comments full of butthurt over it.

 

[kriller134]

Funny Stoeger story. Friend of a friend took his class. They were doing some drills when my buddy’s friend started fucking with his shot timer. Stoeger loses his shit and smashes the timer. Best part is Stoeger never replaced the timer.

 

[atomic41]

How about some more

I have never shot a pistol match...just a question here. At :44, WTF? Is this common for judges to stand downrange?

 

[Yoteski]

Funny Stoeger story. Friend of a friend took his class. They were doing some drills when my buddy’s friend started fucking with his shot timer. Stoeger loses his shit and smashes the timer. Best part is Stoeger never replaced the timer.

Sounds like a real d-bag if true. Being a good shooter does not translate into being a good instructor.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

I have never shot a pistol match...just a question here. At :44, WTF? Is this common for judges to stand downrange?

They're not downrange.

 

[308pirate]

I have never shot a pistol match...just a question here. At :44, WTF? Is this common for judges to stand downrange?

They are not downrange. They are uprange of the 180 degree boundary and most likely not as close to it as the video makes it seem.

It's a common illusion that freaks out square range people.

 

[iceng]

He is. You should.

Thank you captain obvious. Or is that captain butt-pirate... *Snigger*.

 

[308pirate]

Thank you captain obvious. Or is that captain butt-pirate... *Snigger*.

You sure have turned a homo-erotic corner lately.

Do you like gladiator movies?

 

[Cascade Hemi]

Sight alignment and trigger press translates directly to rifle marksmanship. All of your pistol dry fire will make you a better rifle shooter. Throw all of the gadgets away.

 

[Dos_Meadowlandos]

Throw away your dry fire recoil mags, laser lyte, cool fire, all that bullshit. You don't need it. You think you need it. But you don't.

You think you need the "tactile feedback" you think you need something external to the pistol to see where your "shot" went.

You don't.

Don't argue with me. Argue with him

Spent two days with him last week. He’s got this shit down cold and can assess anyone and tell them what they are doing wrong and how to fix it.

Also learned a ton about open emitter dots In downpours. My backup competition gun is getting a closed emitter dot on it.

PS - Glocks rule in sandy shitty rainy muddy conditions. That is all.

 

[iceng]

You sure have turned a homo-erotic corner lately.

Do you like gladiator movies?

I prefer the series where the dudes wore glittery spandex.

Thanks for noticing !

 

[308pirate]

Also learned a ton about open emitter dots In downpours.

Do tell more

 

[Cascade Hemi]

Do tell more

What is a known problem for open emitter sights.

 

[Milf Dots]

Good thread. Rob Leatham has a short video where he basically says the most important thing is a tight grip that allows slapping of the trigger without upset of pistol alignment- for fast on target shots.

 

[Milf Dots]

Spent two days with him last week. He’s got this shit down cold and can assess anyone and tell them what they are doing wrong and how to fix it.

Also learned a ton about open emitter dots In downpours. My backup competition gun is getting a closed emitter dot on it.

PS - Glocks rule in sandy shitty rainy muddy conditions. That is all.

Aimpoint Acro P2 for closed emitter optic.

 

[308pirate]

What is a known problem for open emitter sights.

None in my experience, even in the rain.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

None in my experience, even in the rain.

My post should have said "That is...". If you get water on the emitter or on the emitter side of the front lens you can get blooming or no dot at all. The same is true of dust and dirt. There's a bunch of videos on YT documenting the issue and why companies like Aimpoint (as well as others) offer closed emitter MRDS. I almost never encounter it living in the desert but I have had it happen and it does exist. Is it an issue for you? Sounds like it isn't. Is it common in places like Seattle? Absolutely.

 

[308pirate]

My post should have said "That is...". If you get water on the emitter or on the emitter side of the front lens you can get blooming or no dot at all. The same is true of dust and dirt. There's a bunch of videos on YT documenting the issue and why companies like Aimpoint (as well as others) offer closed emitter MRDS. I almost never encounter it living in the desert but I have had it happen and it does exist. Is it an issue for you? Sounds like it isn't. Is it common in places like Seattle? Absolutely.

So blooming can't happen when water drops get on either lens of a closed emitter optics?

Don't wonder. It can

PS, Trijicon was smart enough to place drain holes on the housing on either side of the emitter in both the SRO and the RMR.



Quite often people who think they know how to shoot with an RDS freak the fuck out if the dot is less than perfect.

 

[PBWalsh]

Yeah, if the emitter gets wet, point the red thing at the center of the target and press the trigger.

That said, I do prefer my closed emitters. Either way, a better shooter will shoot better regardless of conditions.

 

[SanPatHogger]

I have never shot a pistol match...just a question here. At :44, WTF? Is this common for judges to stand downrange?

I was thinking almost the same thing. Those guys aren't downrange but they seem awefull close to the targets.

I shot a Texas Carbine match a few years ago and there were targest to engage fom a window, when I ran to the window and started shooting targest I could see everbody in my squad hiding in the shade by the picnic tables. They were closer to the targets than me.
That stuff does make me a little nervous but you're shooting with probably the safest gun people there are.

 

[Dos_Meadowlandos]

Do tell more

At least two dots deadlined from the emitters not being sealed properly. Warranty issues.

As for my personal experience and the shooters to my left and right, I was running an SRO on a Glock 34. During the heaviest of rain the dot would disappear into either full kaleidoscope or no dot period. Flick the wrist to clear the water or fire a shot and the dot would be back momentarily. RMR to my left, same problem or multi-dot.

Cop on my right with an ACRO P2, hammering along through the drills with no problem.

Both of my carry guns have closed emitter optics on them. If rain is in the forecast my carry gun will be in the case with me at the match and I make a game day decision what gun to run.

 

[Dos_Meadowlandos]

So blooming can't happen when water drops get on either lens of a closed emitter optics?

Don't wonder. It can

PS, Trijicon was smart enough to place drain holes on the housing on either side of the emitter in both the SRO and the RMR.

The drain holes have a hard time keeping up with a heavy downpour.

Quite often people who think they know how to shoot with an RDS freak the fuck out if the dot is less than perfect.

To complete the drills when the dot would disappear it was wither flick off the water or guillotine the target with the optic or box frame it and keep hammering until the dot returned.