TIGHT LaRue fit!

[flash-bang]

I finished my Larue Stealth build last night. (LaRue 20" Stealth upper w/ PWS muzzle break, LaRue stripped lower with Colt parts, Magpul and Houge furniture and Timney trigger.)

I broke a wooden dowl pin <span style="text-decoration: line-through">pounding</span>applying a little more force than pushing it thru by hand the rear takedwn pin into place! Used a flashlight to make sure holes lined up. They appear to do so. Used Anti-sleze and Slip 2k and it goes in somewhat better. But I think it will forever and always need a punch and hammer to get the rear take down out.
As a long-range varment/paper gun, after inital break-in I had planned on cleaning it after every other use (only 75 to 100 bullets a session. On heavy days.)

I did uses the search function and there are tight ones out there, but is there too tight? WOW.

It is almost a one piece receiver with the pins in...

Required pic...(Black 20 rounders on the way, stolen from my Noveske 18")

 

[Creature]

Re: TIGHT LaRue fit!

Part of the appeal of the Larue to me is the tight lock up. Needing a hammer and punch seems a little excessive. I suppose it's a small price to pay for a 1/2moa gun.

My main concern would be the ability to field strip...

 

[flash-bang]

Re: TIGHT LaRue fit!

This gun is not going to field strip. Not in its current build state. I do only plan on using it for recreational purposes, so if the tightness is a good thing, I can live with that rather than field stripping. Ideally I want to be able to field strip it, but if a lock up this tight is not hurting anything and could even be helping I cab live with it. If not I will contact LaRue and have them fix it. I am not worried.

Guess now the question is Leav it alone or have it fixed?

 

[Strykervet]

Re: TIGHT LaRue fit!

I have one that locks up pretty tight, and I had one that needed to be drifted out. One day in the army, we picked up a couple hundred new M4's in the box. I'd say a few in a hundred would require some sort of tool to get it out, and the army actually recommends (or did) using a cartridge to do this. So yeah, they can get so tight you can't do it by hand.

 

[flash-bang]

Re: TIGHT LaRue fit!

I am used to coming here and asking questions, in hindsight, I should call LaRue and see what they think. I do want a tight rifle, but I do want to be able to field strip it also.

 

[ronin16]

Re: TIGHT LaRue fit!

TIGHT is always better than loose!!! IMHO

 

[shoot4fun]

Re: TIGHT LaRue fit!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Garcia</div><div class="ubbcode-body">TIGHT is always better than loose!!! IMHO </div></div>

At my age even loose is good.

 

[flash-bang]

Re: TIGHT LaRue fit!

...notice wall of remarks I walked into.

 

[Takashi]

Re: TIGHT LaRue fit!

I had this issue with a noveske using a vltor mur upper. I lubed up the takedown pin and cycled it a few times and it helped get it to a manageable (albeit not pleasant) tool-less state.

 

[Guest]

Re: TIGHT LaRue fit!

That looks fantastic

 

[IATigerHawk]

Re: TIGHT LaRue fit!

Give it a little time and it will loosen up enough to break down by hand.

Mine was the same way when I got it.

Nice looking gun.

 

[Bacarrat]

Re: TIGHT LaRue fit!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Matt E.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I finished my Larue Stealth build last night. (LaRue 20" Stealth upper w/ PWS muzzle break, LaRue stripped lower with Colt parts, Magpul and Houge furniture and Timney trigger.)

I broke a wooden dowl pin <span style="text-decoration: line-through">pounding</span>applying a little more force than pushing it thru by hand the rear takedwn pin into place! Used a flashlight to make sure holes lined up. They appear to do so. Used Anti-sleze and Slip 2k and it goes in somewhat better. But I think it will forever and always need a punch and hammer to get the rear take down out.
As a long-range varment/paper gun, after inital break-in I had planned on cleaning it after every other use (only 75 to 100 bullets a session. On heavy days.)

I did uses the search function and there are tight ones out there, but is there too tight? WOW.

It is almost a one piece receiver with the pins in...

Required pic...(Black 20 rounders on the way, stolen from my Noveske 18")

</div></div>

Bipod is on backwards.

 

[spikele]

Re: TIGHT LaRue fit!

Looks great. Which scope are you going with?

 

[rck]

Re: TIGHT LaRue fit!

Mine was the same way. Wore in nicely and I can now get it apart by hand.

 

[kujo929]

Re: TIGHT LaRue fit!

My JP LRP still requires a punch after several cleanings.

 

[BERTMAN77MK2]

Re: TIGHT LaRue fit!

my Larue upper was perfect after 500rds downrange--awesome fit!

had to use plastic punch and rubber mallet before

 

[Creature]

Re: TIGHT LaRue fit!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BERTMAN77MK2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

had to use plastic punch and rubber mallet before </div></div>

Bingo. I have a small mallet(one side brass, one side hard plastic) and a punch that I have on my field gear. That would work. Hell I bet you could just carry the punch. If push came to shove and you needed to strip the rifle you could just line it up with the pin and use the ground/rock as leverage. Could probably keep it in that grip with a bore snake/bolt.

 

[strat81]

Re: TIGHT LaRue fit!

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/811647/dpms-ar-15-takedown-pin-punch-delrin

Stick one of those in your grip or range bag.

Also, try a takedown pin from a different rifle, see if that helps. You can also use some ~220-400 grit sandpaper to take a bit of material off the pin. A few hundred rounds of ammo may help too.

 

[-Nick-]

Re: TIGHT LaRue fit!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Creature</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Part of the appeal of the Larue to me is the tight lock up. Needing a hammer and punch seems a little excessive. <span style="font-weight: bold">I suppose it's a small price to pay for a 1/2moa gun.</span>
</div></div>

Odd... Mine is sub-moa and I can push the take down pin out without tools... I don't recall a tight fit being necessary for a sub-moa shooter either.

 

[gits]

Re: TIGHT LaRue fit!

My OBR shoots around .5-.75 MOA consistently. Still has a tight fit where I have to use a rubber mallet to get it fit because its so tight. I ran a different OBR for a competition that was pretty loose but shot consistently .5 MOA or smaller. I agree with the notion that a tight fit doesn't necessarily mean it will shoot any tighter.

 

[TonyAngel]

Re: TIGHT LaRue fit!

The fit being overly tight isn't necessarily a bad thing, but I also wouldn't say that it's a good thing in any case. As has been mentioned, it can make field stripping difficult; but I also believe that it can have an adverse affect on accuracy.

I mean, the upper is held to the lower by virtue of two lugs that fit into recesses in the lower. If the tight fit is caused by the rear lug being too long or the hole being a little too high or the shelf in the lower being a little too high, then all you are really stressing is the bottom of the rear lug. I'd imagine that this would have little to no effect on accuracy.

On the other hand,if the tightness is caused by the holes essentially being either too close together or too far apart in one of either the upper or the lower, then there is stress that is constantly being borne by the upper receiver in that the two lugs are either being perpetually squeezed together or are being pushed apart.

My concern comes with what might happen as the rifle is fired and it heats up. With the stress on the upper receiver, the heat may cause things to shift causing a change in the point of impact.

In any cae, I don't like them that tight. With 5.56 builds, I'll shoot them a bit to see if they'll loosen up so that it can be field stripped by hand. If it doesn't, then I'll replace the upper.

In my experience, rifles with a more loose fit shoot better than rifles with a super tight fit.

 

[Creature]

Re: TIGHT LaRue fit!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Creature</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Part of the appeal of the Larue to me is the tight lock up. Needing a hammer and punch seems a little excessive. <span style="font-weight: bold">I suppose it's a small price to pay for a 1/2moa gun.</span>
</div></div>

Odd... Mine is sub-moa and I can push the take down pin out without tools... I don't recall a tight fit being necessary for a sub-moa shooter either. </div></div>

Sure, I don't doubt it. I don't have money for a Larue matched upper/lower but I'd like one. My ARs shoot under a minute consistently without customer upper/lowers so I haven't been motivated to pursue that route. I do think there is something about having consistent pressure on the rifle when you shoot. That being said as long as your position is solid I don't see the need.

Call and ask Larue what the main benefit of using their paired upper/lower. I bet they tell you the tight tolerances. Why do you think people blueprint actions on bolt rifles or pay tons of money for a 1911 with super tight slide fit?...It's conducive to accuracy.

 

[nohair]

Re: TIGHT LaRue fit!

My OBR Lite is SUPER tight, as in hold onto the NightForce and smack the stock a few time to get it apart.

 

[-Nick-]

Re: TIGHT LaRue fit!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Creature</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sure, I don't doubt it. I don't have money for a Larue matched upper/lower but I'd like one. My ARs shoot under a minute consistently without customer upper/lowers so I haven't been motivated to pursue that route. I do think there is something about having consistent pressure on the rifle when you shoot. That being said as long as your position is solid I don't see the need.

Call and ask Larue what the main benefit of using their paired upper/lower. I bet they tell you the tight tolerances. Why do you think people blueprint actions on bolt rifles or pay tons of money for a 1911 with super tight slide fit?...It's conducive to accuracy. </div></div>

Who said anything about how much you spent or any of the other melodramatics of your position in relation to the rifle which should always be "solid"? And if Larue told me that a super tight fit requiring tools to remove the take-down pins between his upper and lower resulted in a more accurate platform then I would tell him to quit snorting his dillo dust since that's complete bullshit. We're not talking about actions, chambers, trigger assemblies, or pistol slides and bolt rifles(which are complete apples to oranges). You're trying to use the mechanics of other parts and their relativity to "tight tolerances" as an argument that a loose upper to lower fit results in a loss of accuracy, and it doesn't. If it did then GAP, JP Enterprises, LWRC, LMT, and any other number of sub-moa builders would also be as tight...

Add: Before this turns into a GAP vs Larue vs Toothfairy pissing contest, I'm not arguing the accuracy or quality of an OBR... I'm arguing that your statement regarding the unreasonably tight fit between the upper and lower somehow makes the rifle more accurate is complete bullshit.

 

[Creature]

Re: TIGHT LaRue fit!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Creature</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sure, I don't doubt it. I don't have money for a Larue matched upper/lower but I'd like one. My ARs shoot under a minute consistently without customer upper/lowers so I haven't been motivated to pursue that route. I do think there is something about having consistent pressure on the rifle when you shoot. That being said as long as your position is solid I don't see the need.

Call and ask Larue what the main benefit of using their paired upper/lower. I bet they tell you the tight tolerances. Why do you think people blueprint actions on bolt rifles or pay tons of money for a 1911 with super tight slide fit?...It's conducive to accuracy. </div></div>

Who said anything about how much you spent or any of the other melodramatics of your position in relation to the rifle which should always be "solid." We aren't talking about actions, chambers, trigger assemblies or pistol slides and bolt rifles(which are complete apples to oranges). You're trying to use the mechanics of other parts and their relativity to "tight tolerances" as an argument that a loose upper to lower fit results in a loss of accuracy, and it doesn't. If it did then GAP, JP Enterprises, LWRC, LMT, and any other number of sub-moa builders would also be as tight...

Add: Before this turns into a GAP vs Larue vs Toothfairy pissing contest, I'm not arguing the accuracy or quality of an OBR... I'm arguing that your statement regarding the unreasonably tight fit between the upper and lower somehow makes the rifle more accurate is complete bullshit. </div></div>

We are discussing upper and lower fit. My rifles are the only point of reference I have, same as yours:

"Odd... Mine is sub-moa and I can push the take down pin out without tools..."

Just because you believe something doesn't make you right. As long as the pins can be pushed IN by hand I wouldn't say it's too tight/unreasonable. I never argued anything "unreasonable." There's a certain point when something is just not gonna work.

We ARE talking about actions, chambers, trigger assemblies. <span style="font-size: 14pt">IMO</span> It's not that tight tolerances make a rifle more accurate, it makes operation more consistent(which reduces variables in the pursuit of accuracy). The same way loading ammo to tight tolerances is more consistent. It's physics. The upper contains the BCG and bolt, the bolt contains the cartridge. The more play an upper has the more potential adverse pressure will be placed on the base of the chambered cartridge. Same as a bolt rifle.

My reference to a "solid" shooting position was in terms of shooting while slung up. That puts consistent pressure on both the upper and lower. Loading a bipod would achieve the same effect.

Look, I don't think I said anything that was offensive to anyone. It wasn't my intention to get someone bent out of shape. Just trying to share my thoughts and contribute to the topic(without calling fellow hide members opinions "bullshit").

BTW Aside from LMT all the manufacturers you mentioned use paired uppers/receivers with tighter tolerances than mil-spec(still compatible with mil-spec parts).