Tighter groups with Magnetospeed mounted?

[Jayjay1]

Hey guys,
wanted to test my new Magnetospeed with some loads.

Used it on my Tikka T3x CTR 6.5 CM 24" semi heavy barrel.

Shot 5 shots w/o the Magnetospeed for accuracy, and 5 shots with the Magnetospeed for V0 with every load.
Because I was wondering, if the groups would open with the Magnetospeed, I´ve those rounds on a different target.

Man, I was surprised.

With all three different loads the groups where about 1" high, and they where somewhat tighter!


I was thinking the Magneto would open up groups, but in fact the opposite was the case.

Why?

 

[dimar1492]

Acted as a harmonic dampener. Similar to a barrel tuner. This should also tell you that you haven't found your ideal powder charge and/or seating depth yet. Some people also move the muzzle brake out a thread or two to try tuning the barrel. Essentially small shifts in weight at the muzzle can make large harmonic changes.

 

[XLR308]

Dampening out some of the whip in the barrel for the node you are in I would guess.

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

I've experienced this also. It also rings true with a suppressor on occasion.

 

[Olen_4504]

https://www.wiserprecision.com/

buy this and you won't regret it for a second

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

https://www.wiserprecision.com/
buy this and you won't regret it for a second

I thought the same thing, but it's kind of a pain in the ass to get it setup. How the bayonet attaches to the carbon fiber is chincy.

You can get it to work, though.

 

[Jayjay1]

Dear sirs,

the groups got TIGHTER with the Magneto mounted, not wider.

Please tell me about barrel dampers instead.
Or maybe I should mount the Magneto on my barrel forever.

 

[BigTex]

How much tighter is "somewhat tighter"? Could be strictly coincidence. In what order were the groups shot? Maybe the shooter warmed up a little?

 

[AIAW]

Acted as a harmonic dampener. Similar to a barrel tuner. This should also tell you that you haven't found your ideal powder charge and/or seating depth yet.

Exactly my thoughts as well.

 

[Jayjay1]

All groups were tighter.

One was .3 MOA, when before I never was able to shoot barely .5 MOA.
All were .5 MOA or better, what never happened before.

Definetely not the shooter though.

 

[dimar1492]

Dear sirs,

the groups got TIGHTER with the Magneto mounted, not wider.

Please tell me about barrel dampers instead.
Or maybe I should mount the Magneto on my barrel forever.

We are aware that the groups were tighter with the Magneto mounted. Or, were you referring to the guys telling you to buy the contraption for the magneto?

Either way, what I meant by telling you that you likely haven't found your ideal load yet is that there is more tuning of the load that can be done to get the barrel to act that way when the magneto is not mounted.

A big part of what load development is, is tuning harmonics through adjustments in powder charge and seating depth. Sometimes just changing primers can have an effect because of changes in the way it ignites the powder, usually resulting in slightly different velocities as well. This can shift you in or out of tune/node.

 

[Jayjay1]

Either way, what I meant by telling you that you likely haven't found your ideal load yet is that there is more tuning of the load that can be done to get the barrel to act that way when the magneto is not mounted.

As I agree with the other things you´ve said, I´m sorry, I think you are wrong with this.

The 18mm barrel dia (almost 3/4") with a length of 24" is thin.
A barrel for serious precision shooting with that length would be somewhat thicker.

This thin barrel swings more than a stronger one would.
Even with a perfect load, it will not be that accurate as a heavier counterpart.

With dampening it, I´m very sure, you can get tighter groups which are not possible to gain with the round only.

 

[Inline6]

As I agree with the other things you´ve said, I´m sorry, I think you are wrong with this.

The 18mm barrel dia (almost 3/4") with a length of 24" is thin.
A barrel for serious precision shooting with that length would be somewhat thicker.

This thin barrel swings more than a stronger one would.
Even with a perfect load, it will not be that accurate as a heavier counterpart.

With dampening it, I´m very sure, you can get tighter groups which are not possible to gain with the round only.

Doesn't work that way. I have a factory barrel that is thinner than the one you are discussing. It can shoot 1/4 moa.

You might consider listening to the advice given. Or don't ask questions if you are not willing to hear out the people giving you advice you asked for.

 

[Olen_4504]

I thought the same thing, but it's kind of a pain in the ass to get it setup. How the bayonet attaches to the carbon fiber is chincy.

You can get it to work, though.

hmm. but once it's put together and set up for your rfile you are done. you can just take it on and off the pic/arca mount.

to each their own

 

[Jayjay1]

Doesn't work that way. I have a factory barrel that is thinner than the one you are discussing. It can shoot 1/4 moa.

How long is this barrel, honestly?

I tried a lot, testing 8 bullets, all went first through the Satterlee-test, then I played around with the powders, then changed OAL, now have the third powder in testing, what I didn´t change yet is the primer.

I think that the .5 MOA is the best the rifle can do in this setup, just the Magneto closed the groups somewhat more.

 

[Mr.BR]

Best groups with Magnetospeed on are standard on my rig as well.

 

[Inline6]

How long is this barrel, honestly?

I tried a lot, testing 8 bullets, all went first through the Satterlee-test, then I played around with the powders, then changed OAL, now have the third powder in testing, what I didn´t change yet is the primer.

I think that the .5 MOA is the best the rifle can do in this setup, just the Magneto closed the groups somewhat more.

20" @14.78mm

Your problem is you are using the Satterlee-test. IMHO, that test does not show a true picture of what's going on.

With a 6.5CM so many people have developed loads for it. Pick one close to what you want and develop from there.

My standard load for a 6.5CM is a Berger 130 .010 off the lands in the 2900fps +/- 15fps range.

YMMV

 

[Milo 2.5]

This is pure gold !!

 

[ShtrRdy]

I shot a better group with the Magnetospeed mounted on the barrel too. Does that mean I need to redo the OCW series or fiddle with seating depth?

 

[Jayjay1]

This is pure gold !!

What?

 

[Milo 2.5]

What?

You are fun to read, good enough?

 

[Snuby642]

Give me some enlightenment on this.

I shoot groups with my rifle set up as I intend to use it, can or not etc.

When I find a node/ best groups then I get out a test to see how it looks.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

So do you think a load test can be skewed by the magnetospeed being attached?

 

[Snuby642]

Absolutely. Imho

 

[Jayjay1]

You are fun to read, good enough?

Well, if this thread doesn´t solve my problem, it is still good for something else, not?

Have a nice day.

 

[Olen_4504]

So do you think a load test can be skewed by the magnetospeed being attached?

I think it's entirely rifle/load/barrel/etc specific.

same reason why some guys can develop a load - and throw a suppressor on and it have no effect. some other guy tries the same thing and now needs all new load development and re-zero

so you have to experiment and see if it actually effects your particular load/rifle.

it would be my educated guess that heavier profile barrels are less susceptible to it. but you still need to do your part to verify.


a magnetos speed (esp a slightly used one) + a mount like wiser is still cheaper than a Lab Radar.

 

[_Raining]

Based on what I have read, the magneetospeed can do all sorts of things to a rifle. Change POI but not group size. Change group size for the better. Change group size for the worse. Change nothing etc. If you change something, it can either help, hurt or do nothing. The only time you are pretty much guaranteed to either help or change nothing is sorting. For instance changing from one lot to the next can hurt, help or do nothing. Sorting 1 lot into smaller lots can either help or do nothing.

Johnny's reloading bench did a bunch of tests for hanging shit off his barrel. He saw improvements with his suppressor so he decided to do this test, expecting weight on the barrel to dampen things out and always help. Turns out, sometimes it helped, sometimes it hurt and sometimes it didn't change much. There are barrel tuners that will change the groups even with a very very small changes on the tuner settings. You can search on accurate shooter and see peoples pictures of groups vs tuner settings.

But like I said, these are just things I have read. I don't have first hand experience.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Great... another variable to isolate.

Damn $100 for a mount though. Pretty sure i can come up with something for less.

 

[_Raining]

Great... another variable to isolate.

Damn $100 for a mount though. Pretty sure i can come up with something for less.

You don't NEED a chronograph for load development, at least for OCW and POI ladder test.

OCW(POI {vertical and horizontal}) is supposed to give you a stable zero.

POI (vertical) ladder test is supposed to help you find positive compensation. Which is supposed to give you good vertical even with inconsistent MV(within reason) since the barrel is supposed to be whipping up and thus throws the slower shots at a higher angle which will impact at the same point as faster shots leaving the barrel at a lower angle.

Then you have the MV flat spot people. Which I don't like because I don't think that 1 shot is a good representation of the average of the possible population of a powder charge. But then again I would repeat a POI (vertical) ladder test a few times to make sure it is repeatable. OCW is typically done with at least 3 shots which I feel gives a descent representation of the center of a group but I would prefer 5 shots.

People like the MV test because it doesn't require good fundamentals. Small changes in how you hold the stock (shoulder pressure, cheek weld etc) can change POI just as much as harmonics so you can get bad results for OCW and ladder if you are not consistent with how you handle the rifle from group to group/ shot to shot. As well as wind being a factor for OCW and POI (vertical) ladder since wind has a bigger impact at 100 yards then people think as well as effecting vertical POI at distance even with just a crosswind.

Note, this is just what I have read on multiple forums, I am a bad shot and am struggling to find repeatability in my tests. Shit's fucked yo.

 

[Milo 2.5]

Well, if this thread doesn´t solve my problem, it is still good for something else, not?

Have a nice day.

I hope it does, listen to what a few have said, you have a couple misconceptions regarding what makes a rifle accurate, barrel weight and length for one.
There is no reason a magneto has to be strapped to a rifle for every shot, I guess if someone feels that need, a remote mount is the answer.
If the magneto is acting as a tuner, take it off and tweak something, add 1 thou more or less neck tension, seat depth change, a kernel or 2 more or less powder, etc....

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

I just picked one up figuring more information is better when doing load dev.

 

[Milo 2.5]

I just picked one up figuring more information is better when doing load dev.

I never will, but I also own a labradar. I do not know how this crap has to get so complicated, 20 shots and 4-5 quick tests will determine if one hanging is detrimental, advantageous, or no change. When the magneto first came out, all claims were negative, POI change, groups open up, etc...
Now we hear of it acting as a tuner, the lightbulb should come on in this case.

 

[Mr.BR]

How barrel works out with it ,is down to lenght & profile , on my 28'' modified TRG controur it resoults in barely 1 bullet hole lower group at 100m and always grouped slightly better , on friends rem700 with different contour it makes a big shift and doesnt tighten the groups ither . Having lots of experince with use and building of tuners even with adjustability its not one size fits all so its quite unrealistic to expect positive effect in bunch of barrel lenghts and contours.

We most often use both Labradar and Magneto side by side. Honestly Labradar is a product with great features but realy poorly build , very fragile piece for outdoor use and no support whatsover outside US. V3 vs Labradar is far from clear cut winner, besides the cost diference Labradar doesnt play well with others shooting near and also with rimfires , and again is fragile piece of gear ,in addition some moron designed its power system with realy shody connector for the external power and unnecesary battery compartment where they should have made space for powerbank considering its power usage.