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TiteGroup and Lead Bullets
- Thread starter HotIce
- Start date
Re: TiteGroup and Lead Bullets
I've loaded plenty of TG in my 45 Colt with 285 gr, air cooled, wheel weight cast bullets; about 12 BHN hardness. Once I hit about 900 fps I start to get leading. I can push the same bullet, in the same gun, to 1200 with H110. Basically, what is happening is the Titegroup, being a faster powder is "slapping" the bullet in the butt too hard and causing the leading from hot gases to vaporize the lead at the base of the bullet and it adheres to the bore. Where as the H110 is giving the same bullet a BIG push. This is all in layman's terms, of course. Hope you get the meaning.
Never noticed the smoke.
Alan
I've loaded plenty of TG in my 45 Colt with 285 gr, air cooled, wheel weight cast bullets; about 12 BHN hardness. Once I hit about 900 fps I start to get leading. I can push the same bullet, in the same gun, to 1200 with H110. Basically, what is happening is the Titegroup, being a faster powder is "slapping" the bullet in the butt too hard and causing the leading from hot gases to vaporize the lead at the base of the bullet and it adheres to the bore. Where as the H110 is giving the same bullet a BIG push. This is all in layman's terms, of course. Hope you get the meaning.
Never noticed the smoke.
Alan
Re: TiteGroup and Lead Bullets
It's really about the pressure created by the powder not so much the velocity, but you should be right. I've never gotten leading when using Titegroup in my 1911.
Alan
It's really about the pressure created by the powder not so much the velocity, but you should be right. I've never gotten leading when using Titegroup in my 1911.
Alan
Re: TiteGroup and Lead Bullets
ONe thing to remember about titegroup is that it is a double based powder and burns hot. Titegroup deffinately smokes more under a lead bullet than some other powders do. I load it in 40 under a 200 or 220 grain lead and have to make power factor for USPSA. It does lead and as stated above is more likely than not attributed to it actually beginning to melt the base of the bullet.
ONe thing to remember about titegroup is that it is a double based powder and burns hot. Titegroup deffinately smokes more under a lead bullet than some other powders do. I load it in 40 under a 200 or 220 grain lead and have to make power factor for USPSA. It does lead and as stated above is more likely than not attributed to it actually beginning to melt the base of the bullet.
Re: TiteGroup and Lead Bullets
I have spent some time yesterday looking up stuff about TiteGroup, and it is incredible how far from each other are the reports you get.
Some people says it is dirty and leads, other says it is pretty clean and they saw no traces of leading.
I have spent some time yesterday looking up stuff about TiteGroup, and it is incredible how far from each other are the reports you get.
Some people says it is dirty and leads, other says it is pretty clean and they saw no traces of leading.
Re: TiteGroup and Lead Bullets
I got leading cause I was using soft bullets in my 1911. Switched to a better bullet and all probos left too. Tite group rocks...most of the time...meatering still sucks.
I got leading cause I was using soft bullets in my 1911. Switched to a better bullet and all probos left too. Tite group rocks...most of the time...meatering still sucks.
Re: TiteGroup and Lead Bullets
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: One_Feather</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I got leading cause I was using soft bullets in my 1911. Switched to a better bullet and all probos left too. Tite group rocks...most of the time...meatering still sucks. </div></div>
I finally got my 550B yesterday and tried this load:
45ACP
Wolf Primer
4.4/4.5gr TiteGroup
230gr LRN Zero
1.200" OAL
Metering-wise, TiteGroup did great in my 550B powder thrower.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: One_Feather</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I got leading cause I was using soft bullets in my 1911. Switched to a better bullet and all probos left too. Tite group rocks...most of the time...meatering still sucks. </div></div>
I finally got my 550B yesterday and tried this load:
45ACP
Wolf Primer
4.4/4.5gr TiteGroup
230gr LRN Zero
1.200" OAL
Metering-wise, TiteGroup did great in my 550B powder thrower.
Re: TiteGroup and Lead Bullets
Tite group meters well in my 1050 and dose not impact the leading in any of my barrels. Most leading is related to bullet size and lube not so much powder. I cast and shoot about 5000 pistol rounds a year and find that if you match the bullet to the gun you can keep the lead fouling to a min. For example my sig 220r likes the saeco H&G 185 with a 50/50 lube sized .451 and my HK usp likes the lee 200gr WC tumble lube with Alox lube I also cast them at a lower temp so the come out around .4515-.452. Hell I even found a lead bullet that shoots very well in my 9mm BHP just keep trying.
Tite group meters well in my 1050 and dose not impact the leading in any of my barrels. Most leading is related to bullet size and lube not so much powder. I cast and shoot about 5000 pistol rounds a year and find that if you match the bullet to the gun you can keep the lead fouling to a min. For example my sig 220r likes the saeco H&G 185 with a 50/50 lube sized .451 and my HK usp likes the lee 200gr WC tumble lube with Alox lube I also cast them at a lower temp so the come out around .4515-.452. Hell I even found a lead bullet that shoots very well in my 9mm BHP just keep trying.
Re: TiteGroup and Lead Bullets
I've had very good results with TiteGroup in both 9mm Luger and 45ACP. Keeping velocity blow 1000 fps is widely recommended for lead bullets and that is what I have done. I find TiteGroup a good powder for lighter practice loads with harder lead bullets. I have also had good results with it in jacketed bullets. It certainly burns a lot cleaner than some of the other pistol powders - Unique or Blue Dot for example.
I've had very good results with TiteGroup in both 9mm Luger and 45ACP. Keeping velocity blow 1000 fps is widely recommended for lead bullets and that is what I have done. I find TiteGroup a good powder for lighter practice loads with harder lead bullets. I have also had good results with it in jacketed bullets. It certainly burns a lot cleaner than some of the other pistol powders - Unique or Blue Dot for example.
Re: TiteGroup and Lead Bullets
TG stains cases no matter the caliber. It is smokey, but that is more the lube burning off during firing. With commercial cast bullets you have no choice of lube, but a switch to N320 which will decrease the smoke.
TG stains cases no matter the caliber. It is smokey, but that is more the lube burning off during firing. With commercial cast bullets you have no choice of lube, but a switch to N320 which will decrease the smoke.
Re: TiteGroup and Lead Bullets
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mscott</div><div class="ubbcode-body">WST is good powder for lead pistol bullets. </div></div>
And so is WSF. Both burn cooler than TG and are less likely to cause leading.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mscott</div><div class="ubbcode-body">WST is good powder for lead pistol bullets. </div></div>
And so is WSF. Both burn cooler than TG and are less likely to cause leading.
Re: TiteGroup and Lead Bullets
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Plinker625</div><div class="ubbcode-body">TG stains cases no matter the caliber.</div></div>
Nothing a tumbler can't ix?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Plinker625</div><div class="ubbcode-body">TG stains cases no matter the caliber.</div></div>
Nothing a tumbler can't ix?
Re: TiteGroup and Lead Bullets
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ofcrfs242</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ONe thing to remember about titegroup is that it is a double based powder and burns hot.</div></div>
Funny. I thought double-base powders burned cooler, with spherical-process ones burning the coolest for what I've seen the engineer-types and military decision-makers call "flame temperature". Will have to check.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ofcrfs242</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ONe thing to remember about titegroup is that it is a double based powder and burns hot.</div></div>
Funny. I thought double-base powders burned cooler, with spherical-process ones burning the coolest for what I've seen the engineer-types and military decision-makers call "flame temperature". Will have to check.
Re: TiteGroup and Lead Bullets
You will find that the VV N320 is an excellent powder. I use it in my 40. I use 4.4 grains of N320 behind a 185 Precision black bullet.
larryj
You will find that the VV N320 is an excellent powder. I use it in my 40. I use 4.4 grains of N320 behind a 185 Precision black bullet.
larryj
Re: TiteGroup and Lead Bullets
I chronograph TG 4.6 gr at 830 +/- 5 fps. 100 fps faster than my manual stated. I found WSF at 5.6gr to be 682-768fps.
I found TG to be clean and not smokey. Very consistent in fps.
colt 1911 230gr XTP
I was looking for a light load just enough to cycle the gun. goal was 750 fps. So if your not shooting over a chronney and it is shooting 100 fps faster than you think you could get leading because you might be shooting 950fps. Light loads can cause soot because not hot enough.
TG and WSF were the only powders I could find at the time.
Then my daughter shot my chronny. Ended my work up.
I chronograph TG 4.6 gr at 830 +/- 5 fps. 100 fps faster than my manual stated. I found WSF at 5.6gr to be 682-768fps.
I found TG to be clean and not smokey. Very consistent in fps.
colt 1911 230gr XTP
I was looking for a light load just enough to cycle the gun. goal was 750 fps. So if your not shooting over a chronney and it is shooting 100 fps faster than you think you could get leading because you might be shooting 950fps. Light loads can cause soot because not hot enough.
TG and WSF were the only powders I could find at the time.
Then my daughter shot my chronny. Ended my work up.
Re: TiteGroup and Lead Bullets
OK, I tried yesterday. Almost 400 rounds fired with my SA Loaded.
Load was 4.4gr/4.5gr TiteGroup behind a Zero 230gr LRN bullet.
Myths that did not check:
<span style="color: #FF0000">Powder burns so hot it makes cases and gun glow by heat</span>
I haven't noticed any difference <span style="text-decoration: underline">whatsoever</span> WRT shooting other ammunition.
<span style="color: #FF0000">Powder is very dirty</span>
Even here, after 400 rounds the gun was dirty when I cleaned it. But so they have always been even when shooting many different kinds of factory ammunition.
<span style="color: #FF0000">Powder makes your barrel leading badly</span>
Again, dunno how much I have to shoot to make it lead, but after 400 rounds I did not notice any leading whatsoever, and it took me a few scrubs with nylon brush and Kroil to make it spot clean.
<span style="color: #FF0000">Powder has very harsh recoil</span>
Overall recoil feel is driven by bullet weight, exit velocity, and gun design/geometry/weight. In a pistol, powder burns in few milliseconds, and if you can feel the difference of pressure curve that is happening inside these few milliseconds (given fixed the parameters above), you got more receptors than I have in your body.
<span style="color: #33CC00">Powder smokes quite a bit</span>
Myth confirmed. With lead bullets, and that charge, there is more smoke WRT FMJ bullets. I dunno though, if this is an issue with the powder or the lead bullets. Since I never shot lead in my 1911s before, I cannot offer a comparative analysis.
OK, I tried yesterday. Almost 400 rounds fired with my SA Loaded.
Load was 4.4gr/4.5gr TiteGroup behind a Zero 230gr LRN bullet.
Myths that did not check:
<span style="color: #FF0000">Powder burns so hot it makes cases and gun glow by heat</span>
I haven't noticed any difference <span style="text-decoration: underline">whatsoever</span> WRT shooting other ammunition.
<span style="color: #FF0000">Powder is very dirty</span>
Even here, after 400 rounds the gun was dirty when I cleaned it. But so they have always been even when shooting many different kinds of factory ammunition.
<span style="color: #FF0000">Powder makes your barrel leading badly</span>
Again, dunno how much I have to shoot to make it lead, but after 400 rounds I did not notice any leading whatsoever, and it took me a few scrubs with nylon brush and Kroil to make it spot clean.
<span style="color: #FF0000">Powder has very harsh recoil</span>
Overall recoil feel is driven by bullet weight, exit velocity, and gun design/geometry/weight. In a pistol, powder burns in few milliseconds, and if you can feel the difference of pressure curve that is happening inside these few milliseconds (given fixed the parameters above), you got more receptors than I have in your body.
<span style="color: #33CC00">Powder smokes quite a bit</span>
Myth confirmed. With lead bullets, and that charge, there is more smoke WRT FMJ bullets. I dunno though, if this is an issue with the powder or the lead bullets. Since I never shot lead in my 1911s before, I cannot offer a comparative analysis.
Re: TiteGroup and Lead Bullets
it isnt a bad powder at all in a 45 but in a 40 it can be harsh and generate quite a bit of heat. I use it for my practice ammo for my uspsa limited gun and use n320 for my match ammo. The recoil impulse is sharp but quick and predictable/managable with 180gr 40 S&W rounds. N320 is cleaner and wont warm you gun up quite as quick.
it isnt a bad powder at all in a 45 but in a 40 it can be harsh and generate quite a bit of heat. I use it for my practice ammo for my uspsa limited gun and use n320 for my match ammo. The recoil impulse is sharp but quick and predictable/managable with 180gr 40 S&W rounds. N320 is cleaner and wont warm you gun up quite as quick.
Re: TiteGroup and Lead Bullets
try some N310 if you want a real nice shooting gun, I used to run n310 with 200gr bullets in my 40 and it hardly felt like it recoiled but the rounds had to be loaded long and I didn't want to deal with the pressure issues so I stopped using it
try some N310 if you want a real nice shooting gun, I used to run n310 with 200gr bullets in my 40 and it hardly felt like it recoiled but the rounds had to be loaded long and I didn't want to deal with the pressure issues so I stopped using it
Re: TiteGroup and Lead Bullets
N310 seemed a little too fast to me. I really don't want to try many powders, since HazMat fees kills me (especially when buying 1lbs jugs for try), and the 20lbs limit is pretty strict (considering I have rifle powders too).
I'd really like to use just one powder for 9mm, 40S&W and 45ACP. So it's going to be either TG or N320 a this point.
N310 seemed a little too fast to me. I really don't want to try many powders, since HazMat fees kills me (especially when buying 1lbs jugs for try), and the 20lbs limit is pretty strict (considering I have rifle powders too).
I'd really like to use just one powder for 9mm, 40S&W and 45ACP. So it's going to be either TG or N320 a this point.
Re: TiteGroup and Lead Bullets
I load 5.2 gr. of tightgroup behind 230gr round nose lead bullet i think. and other than looking a bit like black powder pistol when fired LOL shoots great w/no problems
I load 5.2 gr. of tightgroup behind 230gr round nose lead bullet i think. and other than looking a bit like black powder pistol when fired LOL shoots great w/no problems
Re: TiteGroup and Lead Bullets
HotIce, what is this 20lbs limit you speak of?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Powder makes your barrel leading badly</div></div>
Powder cannot cause leading. Using too much or too little with the wrong bullet will cause leading, but that is not the fault of the powder...or the bullet; blame rests solely with the loader.
HotIce, what is this 20lbs limit you speak of?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Powder makes your barrel leading badly</div></div>
Powder cannot cause leading. Using too much or too little with the wrong bullet will cause leading, but that is not the fault of the powder...or the bullet; blame rests solely with the loader.
Re: TiteGroup and Lead Bullets
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EddieNFL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">HotIce, what is this 20lbs limit you speak of?</div></div>
Limits based on the Fire Code. 10K primers, and 20lbs powder. Powder can go up to 50lbs if put inside a special container.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EddieNFL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">HotIce, what is this 20lbs limit you speak of?</div></div>
Limits based on the Fire Code. 10K primers, and 20lbs powder. Powder can go up to 50lbs if put inside a special container.
Re: TiteGroup and Lead Bullets
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sgtusmc_nc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I load 5.2 gr. of tightgroup behind 230gr round nose lead bullet i think. and other than looking a bit like black powder pistol when fired LOL shoots great w/no problems </div></div>
Isn't that just a tad too hot BTW?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sgtusmc_nc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I load 5.2 gr. of tightgroup behind 230gr round nose lead bullet i think. and other than looking a bit like black powder pistol when fired LOL shoots great w/no problems </div></div>
Isn't that just a tad too hot BTW?
Re: TiteGroup and Lead Bullets
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HotIce</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sgtusmc_nc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I load 5.2 gr. of tightgroup behind 230gr round nose lead bullet i think. and other than looking a bit like black powder pistol when fired LOL shoots great w/no problems </div></div>
Isn't that just a tad too hot BTW?
</div></div>
Hard to say. Often, cast load data is held to lower pressures to prevent lead fouling.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HotIce</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sgtusmc_nc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I load 5.2 gr. of tightgroup behind 230gr round nose lead bullet i think. and other than looking a bit like black powder pistol when fired LOL shoots great w/no problems </div></div>
Isn't that just a tad too hot BTW?
</div></div>
Hard to say. Often, cast load data is held to lower pressures to prevent lead fouling.
