To bolt or not to bolt a 1700lb safe?

[Gadget-X]

To bolt or not to bolt a 1700lb safe American Security BF 7240?

Well kind of tossed on this decision. Safe goes thru doorways. Great monitored security system with cameras. Someone is normally at home.

The safe plugs into a outlet directly behind install. what if the outlet went bad?

Any other reasons not to bolt? How much does bolting to concrete help security?

Thoughts?

Thank you

M

 

[db2000]

Don't know the layout of your house but I spoke to a guy that had his tractor stolen and they drove it into his house and out with the safe. Then ditched his tractor down the road.

 

[Gadget-X]

Don't know the layout of your house but I spoke to a guy that had his tractor stolen and they drove it into his house and out with the safe. Then ditched his tractor down the road.

Pretty sure a tractor can defeat 4 bolts in concrete.

M

 

[Maggot]

PUt it on rubber insulators and plug the whole damn thing into a 220 line. Just dont forget to unplug it before you open it.

 

[Rthur]

At 1700# if they can move that bolts aren't going to do much.

R

 

[Amanda4461]

Bolts keep thieves from getting the safe on its side or back. Slow them down. Make sure they can’t just wrap a cable around it and yank it out. Leave no air space behind the safe, or at the sides. This normally requires that some shelves be fit, or some lumber installed. A piece of thick steel channel laid on the top of the safe and bolted to the wall helps prevent many methods of tilt and yank theft. Anything you can do to slow the buggers down, gives the police more time to respond to our alarm. Or, for you to dispose of their perforated hides when you catch them cause they were too damn slow

 

[Gadget-X]

Pretty much impossible to leave no space behind because of the plugin for power.

M

 

[Vodoun daVinci]

If they come for a 1700 pound safe and are determined I really don't think bolting it to anything will help/slow them down/discourage them.

That's what Insurance is for. Do the best you can to deter a casual thief and have an insurance rider for the Professionals. This is how I deal with it....prepare as best you can and keep a low profile. If professionals find out it's there they'll get it no matter what you do.

VooDoo

 

[Gadget-X]

well still on the fence. keep them thoughts coming !!

M

 

[broncoaz]

Mine is 1800#, about the same size as the 7240. I didn’t bolt mine partially due to radon concerns in the house, I figured more holes in the slab could let in more radon or potentially defeat the radon system we installed. Where it’s placed there isn’t much room to work on the sides or back, and if thieves happen to tip it forward I can’t imagine it won’t kill them when it falls. I live in a suburban neighborhood with retired neighbors around, and a security system/cameras. Nobody here has a tractor to drive through the walls and snatch it. I do plan on building a cabinet around it, but I haven’t done it in the first two years.

 

[Marinevet1]

And mine is on the second floor.......

 

[E. Bryant]

How big are the anchor holes? My two-post automotive lift is secured to the floor with 3/4" Hilti anchors, and that thing ain't going anywhere even if someone grabs the tractor key. If we're talking about similarly sized fasteners and not just some wimpy Tapcons, then I'd imagine that the security improvement would be substantial.

If you're worried about moving the safe later, drill the holes all the way through the slab. This would allow you to punch the anchors completely through if you needed to slide out the safe for whatever reason.

 

[Amanda4461]

Pretty much impossible to leave no space behind because of the plugin for power.

M

Move the power line above the safe. Take a novice 2 hours, or a pro 20 minutes or less. Drywall and paint not necessary with the safe being in the way

 

[Jgunner]

Let me guess, trying not to ruin the flooring? I say build it in, fire foam around it, anyone who tries to steal it or break in will work very hard to get to the goods. Fire foam is nice in case of fire, but its a polyurethane foam glue that is very hard to get unstuck. Weakest points are the sides/back/top. Make those harder to get into.

 

[acudaowner]

You need sharks with freaking laser beams guarding you stuff day and night , and still if someone wants it bad enough nothing is going to keep them out well maybe automated turrets there is only ever going to be so much you can do to protect your stuff personally if I lived in an area with that much crime I would have to seriously rethink living there before spending too much on a safe that is thin enough on the sides to be cut open with simple hand tools unless you are bat man then fighting crime is just what you do . good luck to you and your safe may it protect you and your guns well .

 

[MK20]

I have moved a lot of safes. My buddy owns a safe company. 1700 isn’t that heavy. Bolt it. It is easy to cut the bolts if you need to move it eventually.

 

[Gadget-X]

Move the power line above the safe. Take a novice 2 hours, or a pro 20 minutes or less. Drywall and paint not necessary with the safe being in the way

If it was a concrete wall behind it I might consider no space, but it is drywall and a wedge & a sledge it is space in a minute or so.

Let me guess, trying not to ruin the flooring?

Nope got plenty of extra flooring.

M

 

[Duc]

A 1/2" Hilti Kwik Bolt with 3.5" imbedment in average type concrete has a 3500 lb. pull strength and a 7500 lb. shear strength. Multiply those numbers by 4 and your safe becomes 15700 lbs trying to lift and 30000 lbs. hitting from the side.
Also the door is the heaviest part of the safe and could (unlikely) cause the safe to tip forward ( most safe door open 90 deg. only) when open or shift on the floor if slammed open or closed.
Wood...anchoring adds time to the theft.

 

[Nik H]

I bolt my 4500 pound Graffunder. Safe company did a thorough job with the anchors in the concrete.

If nothing else, it buys you more time as many have said. This and putting it somewhere difficult to get to are key to preventing it from being moved or tipped over.

A determined professional can always defeat the safe regardless of the size, weight or cost regardless of what you read. You are guarding against the random thief that stumbles onto the safe and tries to use the tools you have in the house to open it.

 

[Alphatreedog]

PUt it on rubber insulators and plug the whole damn thing into a 220 line. Just dont forget to unplug it before you open it.

With some trash can sized capacitors .

 

[MarinePMI]

Safes are a deterrent, not a prevention. If they want it, they'll take it/open it.

Unless you live out in the sticks, there's no need to bolt it to the floor. If you do live in the sticks, it's still arguable whether that will delay thieves enough to be worth it. In the sticks, you really need a hidden vault. In the city, you generally just need a deterrent for the snatch and grab burglars.

JMHO

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

I know that every part of the country has it's share of shitbirds. Whit that said. What is the threat level in your area? Having the safe is a wise idea but it's just like anything else. It keeps an honest person honest. The scum spend more time learning to be scum and can defeat any of the normal defensive tactics.
So the question is.... should you think about moving or what you are actually going to be putting in the safe? As in, should it be stored elsewhere.

 

[Gadget-X]

We live in a low threat area. Have a serious monitored home security system. Also have a high end camera system. Motion sensors & cameras in safe area, etc...

I watched the first part of this video and have pretty much now decided to bolt down. The 1/2" bolt down come with safe and installation.

Thank you all.

M

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

Low threat area but has a serious security setup. Hmmmm what's going in that safe?

 

[Gadget-X]

Some guns and wifes jewelry. Also original documents & photos. Security systems I built as I am bored with retirement. Wife idea about safe because she watches news too much. Anyway I over engineer everything. USAF engineer & scientist...

M

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

Ahhh. The engineer aspect.
What's the fire rating of your box? Will it ..... oops sorry. I am sure you have researched that.
Good luck. I hope you never actually have to rely on your box. <<<<That's in all seriousness.

Some guns and wifes jewelry. Also original documents & photos. Security systems I built as I am bored with retirement. Wife idea about safe because she watches news too much. Anyway I over engineer everything. USAF engineer & scientist...

M

 

[Gadget-X]

120 mins UL listed.

M

 

[Petrov]

Bolt it down in a corner with hingers facing outside so its more difficult for guys to open it.
Unless you have one of those VERY expensive hand fitted actual steel safes they will all be popped open fast.
I work at a scrap yard, it takes 2 guys who have half an idea how to do this 3 minutes to pry most modern safes open.
All that shit you see in gander mountain no matter how big wont make no difference to two idiots with large pry bars.
Hi, Im idiot #1 with a pry bar.
Heck, me and coworker popped open an "armored" truck in 10 minutes.

They are all speed bumps, have a good guard dog as the best preventative measure. Alarm and a cellphone back up alarm, safes are there to buy you minutes.

 

[Petrov]

Also I dont care if your safe door is made out of captain americas shield, if your frame is made out of tonka toy truck tin filled with dry wall ill whack it a couple of times and get the pry bar in there and bend the frame instead of the door.

 

[Gadget-X]

Thanks. This is the best UL listed I could get in budget and from local folks. 1/2" steel door plate and sides are 1/4" steel inside and out sandwiched with high psi concrete.

M

 

[OldSalty]

Is the safe in an open area, say a living room or den. Or, is the safe in a more dedicated room with an entry door, like a office or bedroom?

 

[Gadget-X]

Office

 

[OldSalty]

How many entry points?

Easily accessible windows etc?

Get a good interior steel door for the office. There are many out there that are pretty stout for a good price. Sure, (and before the obvious is pointed out) a steel door isnt the same as a vault door. But the steel door again is about layers.

TBH, to bolt or not comes down to how it will make you feel. And security is about layers and bolting certainly will not hurt.

But you already have a "bad ass" security system, in a low crime/threat area, so...

And as mentioned previously, you could always move the outlet.

A professional thief and you are likely fucked either way. These people are decently rare. The meth head smash and grab much much more common.

 

[Gadget-X]

one

 

[Spidersix]

I say bolt it. Use Simpson Titan bolts or equivalent, never a sleeve style bolt. You can drill the holes after the safe is in the permanent location from the inside of safe and then use a heavy duty impact driver to screw in the bolts. Best practice is to drill and install one bolt at a time, at least partially in the off chance the safe moves (unlikely, but I’m a cautious type.) If you need to move the safe, just unscrew the bolts. If you are concerned about radon (or in my case, ground water) either don’t drill all the way through the slab or squirt some silicone into the hole before screwing in the bolts.
Keep in mind that a thief can use about $5 worth of electrical conduit, cut into a few pieces to move the safe “Egyptian” style over to a pickup bed, and then tip it in with very little effort and then bogey on out to another location to get into safe at their leisure. I have moved my 1800# safe several times very with the help of one friend using this method.
As others have mentioned, anything you can do to slow lowlifes down works in your favor.
Just my two cents.
Spidersix

 

[JCHayes]

I wouldn't worry about it. If they get into your house, just chootem

 

[hermosabeach]

1- move the outlet. It’s easy to do or an hour or two of labor for an electrician.

2- bolt it down

One can always bolt it down with a threaded insert in the floor and bolts inside the safe

the normal way I have done is to install threaded rods into the cement floor and then you need to lift and lower the safe onto the threaded studs.

—
The last time I tried to break into a bank, those bastards had secured the vault to the building
Those bastards also had an alarm system and cameras. They worked out some deal with the local police to come as well

—
If a bank goes to the effort of securing a multi million dollar vault, the bolt that safe in place.

 

[powerspc]

I've never really seen the point in bolting it down. The majority of gun "safes" aren't going to do much more than protect against the smash and grab meth-head anyway. If someone really wants what's in it and they have the time, energy and tools it's not going to matter if it's bolted down or not.

 

[MK20]

Look on Craigslist for a TL-15 or better safe. Those will stop most folks.

 

[diggler1833]

Always bolt if you can. It is added security at almost no cost to you. This is especially important if you start to accumulate a lot of value inside them. Your residential security container should be one of your bigger investments...and my personal rule of thumb is that it should cost at least as much as your most expensive gun.