To "Build" or Buy Off The Shelf?

[Acapa]

New to the forum and AR's. Shot bolt action competition in past life. In beginning stages of defining goals, so looking for versatility, if possible. Eyeballing 3 gun, but also would like something with eventual potential (without buying a whole new gun) of reaching out to 600 yd if doable. Looking at the new Stag Arms 3G, however, would my $1,400 for gun only (I know dont laugh) be better spent on a "build"? Also will use for praire dogs, coyotes. Intentions of reloading but for now would like to be able to buy factory ammo without a blood letting. Open on calibers.

Big list, tall order, but, none the less, very serious.

I also live in the real world

 

[NoFail]

Re: To "Build" or Buy Off The Shelf?

I dunno, I'm right in the middle of mine, I opted to build. This is my 1st AR too. I am doing a large frame job and have found that it can be expensive. It did not have to be as much as I spent but I chose one of the pricier parts providers as far as all the working parts go. Virtually everything inside my .308 build is JP Enterprises. I just ended up going with one provider since they do provide just about everything but it cost me more, but it should be worth it. I would say since I am building my own I probably will save at least $6/700+ as opposed to just buying a high end LR-308 type rifle from an outfit like JP, LMT or LWRT.
But yeah I could have used less expensive innards for my build but I went for quality and reputation because I want results. Yeah we'll see if I did the right thing. I chose JP because I liked their bolts and low mass chrome carriers, so I just ended up choosing to go all the way with them, fire control system, barrel (they match bolt to your barrel anyway) & gas system.

Your 1400? maybe go small frame and look into the, what is it the 6.5 Grendal cartridge? Heck yeah a 6.5 in an AR15 that sounds sexy to me. A 7.62 x 39 in the AR15, don't they do that too? Check out the Seekins Precision products, they apparently make some pretty sweet 3 gun rifles and/or parts for your build.....
http://www.seekinsprecision.com/
http://www.seekinsprecision.com/index.ph...0&Itemid=51

But LOL their rifles don't look cheap to me either!!!

 

[kenndapp]

Re: To "Build" or Buy Off The Shelf?

build! hands down. there is nothing like knowing every little spring and detent and pin of your weapon. its a fantastic experience and you will learn alot. you never have the same relationship with the rifle you bought that you would the rifle you built. not to mention, you get everything you wanted and nothing you don't. beats "upgrading". get it right the first time. i built my first rifle and working on the second. i cant see myself ever buying a complete rifle for any reason. having said all that......your rifle will have no warrentee. the parts might but, the rifle as a whole will not. 1400? maybe. id rather save a little longer and spend 2k-2.5k on a sweet build than flush $1400 down the drain for something i wasnt going to be satisfied with down the road.

 

[NoFail]

Re: To "Build" or Buy Off The Shelf?

^ This

And yeah 2.5 is about what mine cost and I haven't bought my scope yet and I don't plan BUIS so none of the 2.5 went there LOL!!!

edit: On side note, I built my lower today, YAY, trigger is the sheeeeit too

 

[KillShot]

Re: To "Build" or Buy Off The Shelf?

Something to consider, as mentioned, is when buying a pre-built AR you also have the added benefit of a warranty. For the price of $1400, an LMT 5.56 can be had.

That 2.5k the other guys spent on their builds, they will most likely never get most of it back when or if they decide to sell it because a top shelf AR will ALWAYS hold its value better than a home built franken-gun. In addition to that, if you build an AR using top shelf/brand components you'll rarely see any savings because as with anything in life, you get what you pay for.

For what it's worth, I chose to buy rather than build...twice...and I've never once regretted it. The guy above me who said you'll never appreciate a pre-built rifle as much as you would if you built it yourself, that is a matter of opinion only. No matter what I was to build, nothing could take the place of my POF.

In my opinion, when you buy a top shelf, premium AR...no home built AR you could build will give you the same satisfaction as a top brand such as POF, LWRC, LMT, KAC, GAP, Les Baer, JP, or Noveske will.

 

[NoExpert]

Re: To "Build" or Buy Off The Shelf?

I'm doing half and half on mine; building on a Noveske lower and buying a Noveske built upper. I couldn't buy the lower built how I wanted it and I can't buy the parts individually to build the upper.

Figure out your wants and needs and go from there. Lowers are easy to build, uppers seem to need a bit more care.

 

[Bennyboy]

Re: To "Build" or Buy Off The Shelf?

How much stuff would you change on one you bought off the shelf? When I struggled with this question it was with a bolt rifle. I ended up buying a bare bones 700 with crappy stock and all becasue I changed everything about it. You take the sweet rifle above of Killshot's and frankly I don't know why you would want to change anything on that.....I suppose if I were buying an AR configuration--I would probably avoid a build and just buy one.

 

[BOL556]

Re: To "Build" or Buy Off The Shelf?

Put mine together the way I wanted it to be. Pretty much mine is a modified Daniel Defense. Decided to build my own cause I didnt want to drop 1400+ dollars at one time. It does cost a lil more to build in the long run but it was worth it.

(Top) rifle mine pretty much a Daniel Defense modifid ($1540). DD MSRP for about the same set up 1400. (Bottom) MK12 Mod X (1600) MSRP PRI upper 1900 lower 500 bucks altogether 2400. Just depends what you want. PRI offers a 3 gunner upper for 850 then build a good lower you are looking at about 600 but you are still in the range of 1400.

 

[plong]

Re: To "Build" or Buy Off The Shelf?

Only one problem with building: Its like Lay's Potato Chips - 'Nobody can have just one...' <span style="font-style: italic">very</span> addictive

But seriously: Build It! Amazingly simple and if you shop around a bit for your parts, and choose wisely, you'll end up with better quality at a lesser overall price. And... you'll have fun doing it and learn the gun inside-out; win-win-win!

 

[Oakland Tactical]

Re: To "Build" or Buy Off The Shelf?

Buy one first then build one, I suggest both. If you can only afford one I would buy one of the top brands such as POF, LWRC, LMT, KAC because if you dont like it you can definatly sell it and retain most of your investment, and get the warranty which sometimes it passes to the new user.

 

[Silverbullet555]

Re: To "Build" or Buy Off The Shelf?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Re25</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Buy one first then build one, </div></div>

I agree. I bought my first one and built the rest.

 

[echo3]

Re: To "Build" or Buy Off The Shelf?

Your chances of getting a rifle that does what you expect it to reliably the first time around? Buy something from someone who makes them for that use for a living.

You pay for what you get. If your lucky you get what you pay for.

Then there is that pesky what if.. if you or your homeboy built it do you understand what is wrong and how to fix?
Sending it back to JP is a safe bet of a fix.

A good 3 gun with good glass should have no trouble at 600.

 

[Cody Petersen]

Re: To "Build" or Buy Off The Shelf?

You may also want to look into specialized Dynamics. Awesome guy and Awesome guns!

 

[NoFail]

Re: To "Build" or Buy Off The Shelf?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MST</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Your chances of getting a rifle that does what you expect it to reliably the first time around? Buy something from someone who makes them for that use for a living.

You pay for what you get. If your lucky you get what you pay for.

Then there is that pesky what if.. <span style="color: #FF0000">if you or your homeboy built it do you understand what is wrong and how to fix?</span>
Sending it back to JP is a safe bet of a fix.

A good 3 gun with good glass should have no trouble at 600. </div></div>

That's a big chunk of the reason why I wanted to build for myself. So I will understand all of the components and how they work. I just built my lower yesterday and it came out exquisite. I didn't use a modular fire control system either but rather when I learned about the JP-EZ fire control I got excited to use it. Their was a lot more involved than just dropping down a modular with no settings you have to do and just drive home the pins. JP said a 15 minute install. Well it took me a lot longer than that. I had never done this before. but when I was done I was very satisfied and I learned much. Yes I wanted it to be more difficult and challenging. That trigger absolutely no creep whatsoever. measured 4.5 lbs. pull they claim 3.5 - 4.0. Maybe it works into 4.0 but I don't care I hope it stays like it is, or maybe the scale I used is not right, whatever.
Anyway point is I will know a lot more doing a build on my own than buying a great rifle from JP or POF. I am my own warranty and am not afraid. Mine will be awesome, beautiful and reliable and it will shoot from the get go.

Sorry for the long post.

 

[echo3]

Re: To "Build" or Buy Off The Shelf?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NoFail</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am my own warranty and am not afraid. Mine will be awesome, beautiful and reliable and it will shoot from the get go. </div></div>


Cool. I remember watching a homeboy's carbine explode in his hands during a string of fire.
1 bad round of Black Hills and his LMT was in 2 smoking pieces. (He was not injured)

Both companies stepped up and made sure he was taken care of.
If he had built the rifle he would have been SOL.

Do not misunderstand me. I am a firm believer in the discipline of knowing your weapon inside and out.

I also am a firm believer that unless one has been trained to assemble tune and troubleshoot one, then their own first one is probably not the place to learn as they go.

I did not and I am now more than capable of selecting and assembling the components into a first rate rig.

I installed my Geissele high speed NM trigger. Adjustments all to where they belong to start yada yada. Nice sharp crisp. I then drove to my smiths shop and stood at the bench with him and had him tune it right.
When I change barrels in my 3 gun rig? He will do it not me.
His career as a mil then LEO armorer before opening his shop gives him ever advantage I lack.

I don't build my boltguns, pistols, shotguns, armor or race cars. I fully understand them but there are far better qualified people already doing a phenomenal job of it.


In truth the easiest way to score a smoking deal of a beast of a 3 gun AR is to just go to matches and start hanging out networking and making friends.

I have never been to a single comp where there was not a full blown gun bizarre there to with people selling everything.
And comp shooters are friendly and want to help bring in more people so they tend to be willing to help out.

 

[Acapa]

Re: To "Build" or Buy Off The Shelf?

Thanks for the great responses everyone! Good group of guys here. For the first gun, I will probably buy off the shelf and add to that gun of needed.

Anyone know anything bout the Stag 3G? It got good reviews by the gun rags but you can't always trust em if the Mfg advertises with them.

Thanks!

 

[BrokenSailor]

Re: To "Build" or Buy Off The Shelf?

I like to hunt for a good used weapon. Purchase it at a reduced price and then fix it up the way I want.

 

[NoFail]

Re: To "Build" or Buy Off The Shelf?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MST</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NoFail</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am my own warranty and am not afraid. Mine will be awesome, beautiful and reliable and it will shoot from the get go. </div></div>


Cool. I remember watching a homeboy's carbine explode in his hands during a string of fire.
1 bad round of Black Hills and his LMT was in 2 smoking pieces. (He was not injured)

Both companies stepped up and made sure he was taken care of.
If he had built the rifle he would have been SOL.

Do not misunderstand me. I am a firm believer in the discipline of knowing your weapon inside and out.

I also am a firm believer that unless one has been trained to assemble tune and troubleshoot one, then their own first one is probably not the place to learn as they go.

I did not and I am now more than capable of selecting and assembling the components into a first rate rig.

I installed my Geissele high speed NM trigger. Adjustments all to where they belong to start yada yada. Nice sharp crisp. I then drove to my smiths shop and stood at the bench with him and had him tune it right.
When I change barrels in my 3 gun rig? He will do it not me.
His career as a mil then LEO armorer before opening his shop gives him ever advantage I lack.

I don't build my boltguns, pistols, shotguns, armor or race cars. I fully understand them but there are far better qualified people already doing a phenomenal job of it.


In truth the easiest way to score a smoking deal of a beast of a 3 gun AR is to just go to matches and start hanging out networking and making friends.

I have never been to a single comp where there was not a full blown gun bizarre there to with people selling everything.
And comp shooters are friendly and want to help bring in more people so they tend to be willing to help out.
</div></div>

Well yeah lot's of good points you make. At least I chose high end parts but yeah I hear you loud and clear, MST. OK you make me think now. I am taking my barrel and flash hider to a smith I have already contacted and he will pin the flash hider to barrel. I am bring all my parts with me and perhaps just have him install barrel to upper because I have not bought the required tools for that yet. So what the heck. At that point he would just double check everything when I bring all parts with me. He can inspect my lower too and check the trigger timing and stuff, I was planning to do that anyway.

 

[sgtbutt]

Re: To "Build" or Buy Off The Shelf?

Building is my choice for several reasons and i'll try to get into pros and cons.

Pros
You get exactly what you want in a rifle.
Do your homework and when you find the best component for your rifle buy once cry once.
Less of a "parts box", some aftermarket accessories aren'toffered as a factory option.
You can bargain shop for parts piecewise or possibly get a lightly used part.
You learn how the parts work together as you build them and become acquainted with the inger workings.

Cons
If the components dont mesh together there is a ton of t troubleshooting to do.
No one manufacturer for warranty and possibly voided warranty.
Having to do up your list of parts and possibly missing pieces.
Having to buy specialty tools that may only be used once.
Resale, not there like a factory gun. Just cuz you think your rail is bada$$ doesn't mean I or the next guy think so.

Hope this helps out a bit. I just finished helping my buddy do his first build this weekend everything was bought as parts, BCG was pretty much only thing assembled. Both options have their appeal, for me its building. But there me be an off the shelf gun that I will snag if it catches my eye.

 

[BLDTYLRY]

Re: To "Build" or Buy Off The Shelf?

Whenever I get stuck with a hard decision I always look at the question in a different light...For example: Let's change it from building an AR to building a car.

Cons
<ul style="list-style-type: disc">[*]It's going to cost you more to build it than buying one off the lot.[*]You're going to need to buy tools and may need to "fit" pieces so it works.[*]Unless you are a famous car builder it's going to cost you more to make it and if you ever sold it you may not get your money back. [*]Individual Parts are going to cost more unless you can get them for cost[/list]
Pros
<ul style="list-style-type: disc">[*]You're going to have the satisfaction and knowledge that you built it.[*]Not likely you will see another one just like yours.[*]You get to build it your way.[*]It's now an heirloom and you can pass it on to your kids knowing you put it together yourself[/list]

 

[josie6637]

Re: To "Build" or Buy Off The Shelf?

+1 for build. It is going to cost you more but you learn a lot about the gun by building it. Plus you can mix and match parts that suit you. I.e. pick your barrel, firegrip, stock, trigger, comp, bolt etc. I do agree however that by going with the a top tier maker you wont be dissapointed. I enjoy the satisfaction of building a custom gun for me and knowing why I picked the parts I run w/ as opposed to running parts someone else thinks will align the stars for me.

 

[SICARIO]

Re: To "Build" or Buy Off The Shelf?

I would build. I started out with a DPMS, which had all sorts of compromises for me. I slowly changed parts out one by one until it was practically a new rifle. Had I built from the start it would have saved me some time. On the other hand, it was a fun experience.

 

[weberj62]

Re: To "Build" or Buy Off The Shelf?

well i not sure what to tell you but i was a bolt guy didnt want to spent a lot for an ar for a 3 gun race i do every year and the m-14 was kick my but in the last leg. so i put one together wouldnt really call it a build. but you might check out red x arms .com. after the 1st one i had to have another i have a 20" with a fluted barrel had to call and asked him to make it but he did. and a 16" tac up that i carry in my squad while i am on duty. have their crome bolt as well on top of the plum crazy lower all put together for right around $550. wouldnt trade them for the world. hope that helps

 

[strojo]

Re: To "Build" or Buy Off The Shelf?

While there are plenty of vendors who give ample choices, I just think it's more fun to build it yourself. You can take your time and pick and choose the perfect combination of parts.

 

[BrokenSailor]

Re: To "Build" or Buy Off The Shelf?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kenndapp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">build! hands down. there is nothing like knowing every little spring and detent and pin of your weapon. </div></div>

+1 on that.

 

[crazybrit]

Re: To "Build" or Buy Off The Shelf?

Oh yeah...build it within your budget, know every little piece, then upgrade as your AR money jar fills up again. Then of course you'll have some parts sitting around and you'll start thinkin' those parts are looking lonely and you should put them to use on another build.....and the sickness goes on and on and on....

 

[trisurvivor]

Re: To "Build" or Buy Off The Shelf?

+1million to build

I was a bolt man myself. Very competent on weapons modifications and accuracy. I had shot ar15's before and just not impressed with factory stuff. My brother got a M&P that is a POS! So that led me to decide to build one. He spent a good chunk on it and then spent even more to get it to shoot better, but still not as good as mine.

I seem to have found that on a budget, buying used is way cheaper. I put my POF together from basically parts from this website, GB, and AR15. I did a POF with vltor emod, geissele sd-3g trigger, badass selector, and utg ergo sniper grip for just under $1650. Most of the parts looked brand new when I got them. I got the complete upper for $825 shipped with only 50 rounds down it. I saved a fortune doing it myself, and after having shot mine, my brother is kicking himself for not doing the same. I have to say that it has become my favorite rifle and that I just picked up my new POF ar10 lower today. I caught the bug!

 

[problemchild]

Re: To "Build" or Buy Off The Shelf?

What lower are you using on the bottom rifle?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HAVOC615</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Put mine together the way I wanted it to be. Pretty much mine is a modified Daniel Defense. Decided to build my own cause I didnt want to drop 1400+ dollars at one time. It does cost a lil more to build in the long run but it was worth it.

(Top) rifle mine pretty much a Daniel Defense modifid ($1540). DD MSRP for about the same set up 1400. (Bottom) MK12 Mod X (1600) MSRP PRI upper 1900 lower 500 bucks altogether 2400. Just depends what you want. PRI offers a 3 gunner upper for 850 then build a good lower you are looking at about 600 but you are still in the range of 1400. </div></div>

 

[BOL556]

Re: To "Build" or Buy Off The Shelf?

This one http://www.tacticalinc.com/t15bdxtrade-b...ver-p-1082.html

The only thing that sucks is I cant put a magpul bad on it. I am thinking about getting a phase 5 to see if it works.

 

[smschulz]

Re: To "Build" or Buy Off The Shelf?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

In my opinion, when you buy a top shelf, premium AR...no home built AR you could build will give you the same satisfaction as a top brand such as POF, LWRC, LMT, KAC, GAP, Les Baer, JP, or Noveske will.

</div></div>

IMO, you couldn't be more wrong.
I know I can and have built AR's just as good if not better than any so called top shelf unit.
Nothing wrong with them ~ far from it ~ they are great rifles but so are mine and are exactly the way I want them.
The side benefit is the satisfaction and experience of doing it yourself.
They however, are not always cheaper when you use top shelf parts but they are customized the way you (I) want them.
I will always build vs buy when it comes to an AR.
YMMV

 

[KillShot]

Re: To "Build" or Buy Off The Shelf?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: smschulz</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

In my opinion, when you buy a top shelf, premium AR...no home built AR you could build will give you the same satisfaction as a top brand such as POF, LWRC, LMT, KAC, GAP, Les Baer, JP, or Noveske will.

</div></div>

IMO, you couldn't be more wrong.
I know I can and have built AR's just as good if not better than any so called top shelf unit.
Nothing wrong with them ~ far from it ~ they are great rifles but so are mine and are exactly the way I want them.
The side benefit is the satisfaction and experience of doing it yourself.
They however, are not always cheaper when you use top shelf parts but they are customized the way you (I) want them.
I will always build vs buy when it comes to an AR.
YMMV</div></div>

I understand what you're saying but let's see what you're able to sell your Frankengun for in comparison to my POF or an LWRC, LMT, KAC, Noveske, etc. Let's see how much satisfaction you have after the sale, having sunk an untold amount of money in it and get nowhere near the amount invested in the build.

 

[smschulz]

Re: To "Build" or Buy Off The Shelf?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I understand what you're saying but let's see what you're able to sell your Frankengun for in comparison to my POF or an LWRC, LMT, KAC, Noveske, etc. Let's see how much satisfaction you have after the sale, having sunk an untold amount of money in it and get nowhere near the amount invested in the build. </div></div>

FYI, I didn't build it to <span style="font-style: italic">sell</span> ~ I built them to <span style="font-style: italic">shoot</span>.
They are hardly a Frankengun(s).
The resell aspect is irrelevant as I do not plan on selling them.
AR's are all basically the same ~ just some component changes here and there.
I don't need to sell my gun to have satisfaction ~ I just need to shoot it.

 

[BrokenSailor]

Re: To "Build" or Buy Off The Shelf?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KillShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I understand what you're saying but let's see what you're able to sell your Frankengun for ... </div></div>

I think the thought train here is...let's see what you are able to fix when your weapon takes a crap? How much are you going to pay to have it fixed? Your life? Will you even have a clue what may have went wrong? I guess if you aren't that hard core it doesn't matter. and that is OK too.

I also agree with buying used. You get most of what you need at a much better price, and then you take it apart and rebuild it better than new. I am not saying you have to do everything. For example: Putting a barrel on an action may be too advanced. Everything else though, is pretty easy given the books and dvds out today.

On the sixth day God created Brownells!