To build, or not to build?

[ZLBubba]

I'm fairly new to precision rifle shooting, though I've got a lot of experience shooting and hunting in field (and military) environments. I have been thinking about buying an expensive precision rig but I realize, after reading many posts about both formal training and practice, that I should focus on walking before running. Lowlight talked about not recommending anything other than a 308 for the RO courses because of how many rounds it takes to practice and hone one's skill. Makes perfect sense to me.

The question is, should I build my own 308 or should I have it built for me while I'm deployed? I am positive that any custom rig I have built will shoot better than anything I can put together, but I'm also fairly sure that a custom gun will shoot better than I'm capable. I've shot tens of thousands of 7.62 in my time, but that was mostly through a M240B and not a bolt gun. I don't mind having a .75MOA gun since I'm starting out.

By my math, building a fairly solid 308 bolt gun will put me within a few hundred of a low end custom gun. E-5 pay only stretches so far, but if I'm that close to getting a custom rig, why not just throw down the extra cash and get something good?

These are the bare minimums for the rig I was thinking of:
1. Remington 700 short action, 308 caliber
2. McMillan or Manners stock
3. Detachable Badger magazine
4. Rail system for scope
5. Harris bipod
6. Fully bedded stock
7. Custom barrel, 1/11:25 twist

How much could I build this gun for myself? I'll have a gunsmith do the bedding and barrel work, and tune the Remington trigger.

Are there any necessities that I overlooked? Would I just be better served to get a custom rig?

~ZL

 

[desertHK]

Re: To build, or not to build?

If you don't mind the .75 MOA, which BTW is not bad at all, then have you considered options such as Remington XCR, 5R, ect... I know that you want the DBM, but for an additional 350- 400 dollars, you can get a BO M5. The stock for the XCR is not bad. Its's a Bell and Carlson stock. But out of the box, it will do more than .75 MOA. You can find an XCR for about 1K. JMHO.

You can't go wrong with a custom built. But it's going to cost more and also time to wait. If you are a discriminating shooter who is looking for a .5 MOA, or even the ellusive .25 MOA gun, then perhaps a custom is the way to go.

 

[30378]

Re: To build, or not to build?

If you are truely serious, build your own. Get it the way you want it. Buying one already built will leave you feeling like this is what you settled for.

 

[scotharr]

Re: To build, or not to build?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ZLBubba</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

...E-5 pay only stretches so far, but if I'm that close to getting a custom rig, why not just throw down the extra cash and get something good?

</div></div>
Dear Sir, thank you for the service you provide to our nation. Please note that spending money does not equate with manliness. Many of the folks on this board are middle-aged guys with more money and time than sense: you don't need to follow us!

Many, many off-the-rack guns will shoot 1 MOA or better with no work. Do you really want to spend a couple thousand dollars to shrink your groups a half inch at the range? Here is my advice:

1. Spend $500 and get a Remington SPS tactical. http://www.snipercentral.com/spstactical.htm The beautiful thing about this is you will get a good rifle to shoot with, probably sub-MOA, AND you will have a Remington 700 action to use for a custom build in the future when you budget expands. You can also incrementally improve this rifle at your leisure: new stock, etc.
2. Put the extra cash into an IRA...and keep doing this every year. If you do this, you will be able to buy as many guns as you want 20 years from now.

On the golf course, all too often you see "noobs" all decked out with their $2000 golf sets, fancy shoes, and $5 golf balls....most of em can't break 100. They'd rather spend money on fancy equipment than spend time really improving their golf game. Far more impressive is the guy with a $300 set of clubs who kicks your ass.....be THAT guy!

 

[ZLBubba]

Re: To build, or not to build?

Thanks for the input so far. Each one of those options has bounced around in my head for a little while. The SPS option is a good one, but I'd want to get a few of the standard upgrades as soon as I can. I've heard a lot of bad things about the x-pro trigger so I'm hoping I can find one of the older Remingtons.

Part of me knows that if I don't spend the money now, before the wife and I start having kids, I won't ever spend it. I'm too damn practical and thrifty (which is why I'm pinching pennies for this build). LR and precision shooting isn't a cheap hobby either, but hey, it's better than cars or alcoholism.

Anyone know how much the 7 options above would likely run me?

~ZL

 

[Nocalphoenix]

Re: To build, or not to build?

I will second the SPS or Remington varmint as a good start. I started with a factory Remington Varmint and all I have changed is the stock. It run about 1/2 moa new and now sits at about 3/4moa after 4000rounds. While shooting those rounds I have finally figured out what I like and dont like. Im finally stepping up and building my first true custom on a Surgeon and Im doing things differently than I would have 5 years ago.

If your not committed to a Remington take a look at the Tikka t3 varmint, about $400 cheaper than their tactical and other than the rail I cannot find anything differnet. Either one will be under the 3/4 moa your looking for.

 

[scotharr]

Re: To build, or not to build?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ZLBubba</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Anyone know how much the 7 options above would likely run me?

~ZL </div></div>
RE: the x-pro trigger...just get the rifle and start shooting it. You can easily adjust the trigger pull lighter yourself. Why replace a trigger you have not even tried yet?

1. Remington 700 short action, 308 caliber
$500 for a brand new SPS....which has everything you need
2. McMillan or Manners stock
$600-$800 depending on what you choose
3. Detachable Badger magazine
$350
4. Rail system for scope
$120-$200 Seekins, Badger
5. Harris bipod
$70
6. Fully bedded stock
$200 gunsmith does it, much less if you do it.....but you might have to do it more than once

7. Custom barrel, 1/11:25 twist
$300 for Krieger + $200 for gunsmith to chamber and thread

 

[pc3]

Re: To build, or not to build?

To be honest by the time you do what needs to be done to a rem 700 I reckon you may as well spring for a surgeon action.....there better IMHO you already get your piccatinny rail (theres $130-$140) you get the Jewell Trigger etc and mine has come with bottom metal and 1 mag box for the price.

Here it is in Australia at least and this is going on a friend whos just built a 6.5x47 on a rem 700 all in AUS$

$1200 Action trued, pinned lug etc. etc.
$350 Jewell Trigger
$400 Badger bottom metal and Mag Box.
$200 Piccatinny Badger Rail.

It owes him $2150AUS

I Have paid $2400AUS for surgeon with Jewell trigger integral rail, Surgeon bottom metal and mag box, better tolerances, and possibly a stiffer action with I think increased thread tenon area and the integral rail makes them stiffer along with integral lug.

Oh I dont like rem 700's I know there good but I just dont like them personally and I suppose I am trying to illustrate that you can have a full blown custom for a little more scratch you dont really need to count those actions out.

 

[ZLBubba]

Re: To build, or not to build?

My goal is keep my rifle between $1200-1500 before optics. The Surgeon would push me too close to my max without even getting me a barrel/stock/bipod. As much as I'd like a Surgeon, it's a little much for me right now. I think my dream rig is a GAP with a Surgeon on it once I can actually shoot it well enough to justify the expenditure.

I want to build a rifle that I can shoot tons of rounds through (accurately), take to Rifles Only courses, and still have a couple bucks to buy my wife a nice dinner at the end of the week. If I can add a few customized pieces and stay within my budget, even better. That's my American dream.

What's funny is that I'm looking at this whole financial crisis that got started by people who wanted a bigger house than they could afford. I keep telling myself, "Don't be a sub-prime rifle buyer." I think too many people buy a rifle at the max of their budgets, then skimp on glass, ammo, and training. Buying a rifle is only the beginning of the money that's going into that gun, so I'd rather buy the gun that I can afford than stretch my budget too thin. You never know when you'll need the extra cash these days, right?

~ZL

 

[scotharr]

Re: To build, or not to build?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ZLBubba</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
What's funny is that I'm looking at this whole financial crisis that got started by people who wanted a bigger house than they could afford. I keep telling myself, "Don't be a sub-prime rifle buyer." I think too many people buy a rifle at the max of their budgets, then skimp on glass, ammo, and training. Buying a rifle is only the beginning of the money that's going into that gun, so I'd rather buy the gun that I can afford than stretch my budget too thin. You never know when you'll need the extra cash these days, right?

~ZL </div></div>

Bingo. Want something spend your money on? Get good reloading gear so you can feed your gun well. Get the SPS and then tweak your reloads to maximize accuracy. That would be good bang for the buck.

 

[d.hodgee]

Re: To build, or not to build?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scooter-PIE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
On the golf course, all too often you see "noobs" all decked out with their $2000 golf sets, fancy shoes, and $5 golf balls....most of em can't break 100. They'd rather spend money on fancy equipment than spend time really improving their golf game. Far more impressive is the guy with a $300 set of clubs who kicks your ass.....be THAT guy! </div></div>

Love this! This quote would go with about any sport...

 

[ZLBubba]

Re: To build, or not to build?

Scooter's got a knack for words. How can you argue with that?

~ZL

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: To build, or not to build?

To begin wih, modern NIB rifles are highly adequate implemonts, simply as they come from the factory.

Custom rifles are well worth their price, but the question is, are the new guy's skills sufficient to require the extra capability the customs will provide? Good question, only you can answer it, and the way I'd be considering my answer would be ask myself just what I can't do with the basic factory rifle, that I can only accomplish with a custom? If the answer is nothing, then there's time in your future before you need to search your soul for all those special features that are totally mandatory for you to achieve your full potential.

In such cases my answer is always the same.

A Savage 12BVSS .308, Farrel 20MOA base, Burris Signature Zee rings, and a Weaver V-24 Scope. Mildots if you can get them, otherwise, figure out some way to mark off around 3 and 1/2MOA when you're looking through your scope, and you can ballpark the MilDot thing. Fed GMM308M2 (Gold Medal .308 Match, 175SMK) ammo, ot handloads with commercial brass, 175SMK loaded to 2.815" OAL, 45.0gr Varget, and a reliable Large Rifle primer.

Completely adequate as is, not unreasonably costly, and room for later improvement in some effective areas, sometime down the road.

Greg

 

[Nocalphoenix]

Re: To build, or not to build?

There are some corners that can be cut without compromising the needs of 99% of all users. You can go with the CDI bottom metal for about $250 and I cannot fathom how you would be able to break it but have a badger survive. Also a Bell and Carlson stock light tactical stock will run about $200 vs $500-600 for the other. I know its not a Mcmillan or Manners but like I said most users will be just fine. Along the same lines the EGW base will run about $40 vs $100.

Everything we do is compromise, if you want the top flite gear by all means get the top ramen a little longer and get it. If not save some cash and put it towards components or classes.