To PCC or not to PCC...?

[Naaman]

A buddy of mine has told me that he's "finally" convinced to get an AR given the times we are living in. After talking about it a while, he decided he wants to get something in 9mm because he does not want to deal with any additional calibers (currently, his only rifle caliber is .308). He has asked for my recommendation (budget is around $1200).

I know that he is not going to mess around with any stamps, so for him, we are looking at rolling the dice on a pistol/brace build, or a full 16" barrel.

Now, all the "experts" like to say that PCCs "don't suck" and the reasons and examples they offer usually revolve around SBRs and suppressors.

In this case, though, I'm having a hard time recommending something that doesn't suck, because in my personal opinion, if one is to bother with a long gun, it damn well better shoot something more powerful than 9x19. However, I don't want to discourage him from exercising that 2A muscle. I just can't fathom why one would want to take the weight/size penalty of a rifle only to dispense pistol-level firepower.

In my mind, the sweet spot for a PCC is a barrel 6 to 9 inches, and with a brace (unless one is inclined to SBR it). Anything outside of that, and I just can't justify the cost of one as a serious duty/self defense rig given other choices (shorter than 6 inch barrel, we're looking at sidearm ballistics; 10 inches and longer, might as well go 5.56).

Am I missing anything here? I get that they are fun to shoot, but so are airsoft guns.

Even still, my current list of recommendations is (in no particular order):
CZ Scorpion Evo
B&T GHM9 (if he's willing to come up a couple hundred)
CMMG Banshee
And I'm thinking about adding the Stribog A3 to the list pending more info.

 

[Steel head]

B&T are super nice.
Rest of list is solid


My PCC is a 16” carbine.
Maybe I’ll SBR it sometime but it’s my house gun and my favorite AR.
9mm out of a longer 10-16” barrel is pretty sporty

 

[Naaman]

B&T are super nice.
Rest of list is solid


My PCC is a 16” carbine.
Maybe I’ll SBR it sometime but it’s my house gun and my favorite AR.
9mm out of a longer 10-16” barrel is pretty sporty

Cool. Thanks for the input.

I would not feel undergunned running a 16" 9mm in the house (maybe a little bulkier than I'd prefer, but, whatever).

 

[MadDuner]

He may start with a PCC, but you know that just leads to rifle caliber stuff when he gets bored with it.

 

[hafejd30]

My pcc is a cz scorpion

If I’m running a 16” AR platform I want 556 personally. My 300 BO is an 8” barrel as well. However with the cost of ammo 9mm and 556 get shot more

 

[Naaman]

My pcc is a cz scorpion

If I’m running a 16” AR platform I want 556 personally. My 300 BO is an 8” barrel as well. However with the cost of ammo 9mm and 556 get shot more

I was thinking 300BO, but that puts him right back at the "additional caliber" problem (as well as the SBR/suppressor stamp problem, most likely).

 

[Steel head]

He may start with a PCC, but you know that just leads to rifle caliber stuff when he gets bored with it.

I started with rifle caliber and migrated to PCC

 

[black5.3]

I would never discourage anyone from getting pcc.. they are fun and can be set up just like your other ar platforms of bigger calibers. Now, a 5.56 or 300blk out of shorter barrels will definitely stop a 4 legged or 2 legged critter much better than pistol calibers but they still serve a roll in home defense or personal defense. I have a banshee 300 in 9mm and i love it. With a 33rnd glock mag, Trijicon MRO, omega 9k and a x300u it’s a sweet shooter and when we go on trips it packs right in my duffle bag with clothes… you would never know i was packing that kind of heat in the size bag i carry. Plenty of uses for a pcc and plenty of fun. Tell your friend to do his research on the gun itself and determine a budget and have at it.

 

[DownhillFromHere]

I had a Scorpion Evo a few years ago. For a VERY short time. It was, hands down and without question, the most awful firearm I've ever owned, because:

• Trigger. Six feet of grinding creep before it broke at over thirteen pounds, then another four feet going back out to reset. I polished it and got it down to 12ish pounds. The trigger design doesn't lend itself to much improvement. CZ used to offer a trigger upgrade - probably still does - but it cost 1/3 the price of the whole firearm.
• Recoil impulse. The thing has a tiny little recoil spring mated to a massive ~2-pound bolt. Takes a lot of energy to get the bolt moving, and then it doesn't want to stop.
• Proprietary plastic magazines that are too damn big to work with any mag loader I could ever find.
• Upper & lower literally rattled when buttstock or barrel is held and the thing is shaken.

Accuracy was ok and it fed reliably. At the end of the day, it's like an AK. It will run and run reliably; if that's what you buy it for, you're good to go... but if you want something more, look elsewhere.

I replaced the Scorpion with a cheap AR-platform model, which I like much better. I enjoyed shooting little matches which had carbine classes; being able to load 9mm ammo 4x faster and 1/4 the price of 5.56x45 made it a no-brainer.

 

[hafejd30]

For $1200 he could shop on PSA and get both a 9mm pcc and 556

Or

9mm pcc in an AR platform and something like a MP 15-22 in .22 rimfire as a cheap trainer

Or

556 AR and MP15-22 for trainer

I suggest the .22 trainer as an addition due to ammo cost and availability. .22 around here is plentiful currently. 556 as well but the 556 and 9mm has doubled in price it seems in the last couple years

 

[Desert_Racer]

I had a Sig MPX for a while. No issues with it. It was cool, but PCCs seem like more of a novelty item and an outdated concept with modern chamberings. This is why I got rid of it, and haven't looked back. I understand not wanting additional calibers, but I'd rather have something like an 8" 300 blackout. You can run 220gr subs and have something akin to a 45ACP, in terms of energy. Extremely quiet with a can, and low recoil. You can also shoot supers with it, if you so desire. Going with a PCC kind of limits you in performance options.

 

[SRPowah]

The only thing that stopped me from going PCC was the fact that I would want a SBR for size. Like you said, I want some actual ballistic umph if I am going to swing a 16" barrel around. For most people though, a 16" PCC is a blast to shoot. Might not be the most practical if you are looking at filling specific tasks or roles, but that doesnt mean it isnt enough to get you out of a situation in a pinch.

 

[sboone]

Scorpion or a glock mag banshee, I have a 7.7" scorpion, buddy has a 5" banshee, both suppressed. The banshee suppresses better and I think weighs a bit less, but it's more expensive. Scorpions are just awesome and fun but take a little finesse and aftermarket to get what you want out of them, by the time you buy the parts, you're close to a banshee anyway.

As a side note, if you have a glock 17/19 you have mag compatible with your handgun and that is pretty nice

 

[MadDuner]

I have more money in my Scorpion than I do in my precision rifle. But it sure is fun!

 

[Bluedog82]

The PSAKV and KUSA KP9 are both in that ballpark and supposed to be very fun. I know the PSA takes cheap Scorpion mags, not sure about the KUSA

 

[SeaBassHWD]

For $1200, he can probably get a complete AR15, a 9mm glock magwell adapter and a 9mm upper. "In these times," ammo might be hard to get so 223 and 9mm are easier to come by since they're so popular. If he only wants a 9mm, then 16" would be my recommendation. It can go out to 100 yards easily. Beyond that, its a guessing game.

I had an Olympic, CMMG, Sig MPX and NFA dedicated 9mm build. They all ran great but I ended up only keeping the NFA and MPX.

 

[Odysseus1911]

A buddy of mine has told me that he's "finally" convinced to get an AR given the times we are living in. After talking about it a while, he decided he wants to get something in 9mm because he does not want to deal with any additional calibers

From this, I take it he's looking at it to fill a home defense/SHTF type role. If I had to choose between defending my family with a bow and arrow or a 45-70 govt. levergun, I'd take the 45-70. That doesn't make it a good choice for home defense, but any gun is better than no gun.

And that's basically my position on PCCs. They'll work fine for self-defense, but in the same AR platform, any rifle chambering is going to be vastly superior in effect. PCCs are a novelty. They were all the rage in the early 2000s, but by 2010, most people figured out they have all the drawbacks of a rifle (size, weight, hard to conceal) and all the drawbacks of a handgun (low power, poor ballistics past 50 yds) with none of the benefits of either. Kind of like buying a full size pickup with a 90 hp engine. Of course they're fun, but so are .22s, and paintball guns, and slingshots.

So if the purpose is to be a range toy, sure, go for it. If there's a potential serious role to fill, do a pistol/brace build with an 8" barrel in 300 blk and run supers.

 

[davsco]

we are looking at rolling the dice on a pistol/brace build, or a full 16" barrel.

why 'rolling the dice?'

i built (assembled) and sbr'd an 8" 9mm pcc (jp internals, glock pattern) that has run great in various uspsa matches. no reason not to do a brace/pistol instead (other than not being allowed in uspsa...). i think a pcc is a perfect hd choice, esp for those of us who aren't 'gun guys.' easy for folks to just pick up and shoot vs handguns, new shooters at matches with a pcc generally do way better than new shooters shooting handguns.

 

[Shoots 700's]

Scorpions are a great platform and a blast to shoot.

 

[Milo 2.5]

My PCC is a 16” carbine.
Maybe I’ll SBR it sometime but it’s my house gun and my favorite AR.
9mm out of a longer 10-16” barrel is pretty sporty

I'm with you, I have 7 & 8" MPX's, and a 16" JP GMR15. By 8", ammo gets sporty, esp self defense rds. With SD ammo, groups at 50-100 yards shrink by 60-70% over blasting ammo. Thow in 40-57 rd mags if you feel sporty. I'll take a PCC all day for a house gun.

 

[dogman]

My 9mm SBR AR is one of my funnest guns. 5.5" barrel, 9" Seekins BAR rail and an AAC TiRant suppressor.

I would love a set up like this in full auto.

 

[Steel head]

Looks like the old DPMS slick receiver on that.
I was originally using one of those on mine.

 

[dogman]

It's a cool upper and is perfect for a PCC build.

 

[hafejd30]

Looks like the old DPMS slick receiver on that.
I was originally using one of those on mine.

DPMS low pro

I have one as well

 

[Rob01]

I wanted one to play with and went super cheap. I got a PSA. I bought the lower and the upper separate and the full lower was $199 and the 16" upper was $329. Add a red dot and some 33 round Glock mags and it's a bunch of fun. Runs great. Used it in a few local matches and did what it was supposed to do. I am sure prices are more now as this was a couple years ago though.

https://palmettostatearmory.com/pa-9-pcc.html

This is what mine basically looks like.

https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-gen4-16-9mm-1-10-lightweight-m-lok-moe-ept-rifle-5165450030.html

 

[hafejd30]

I wanted one to play with and went super cheap. I got a PSA. I bought the lower and the upper separate and the full lower was $199 and the 16" upper was $329. Add a red dot and some 33 round Glock mags and it's a bunch of fun. Runs great. Used it in a few local matches and did what it was supposed to do. I am sure prices are more now as this was a couple years ago though.

https://palmettostatearmory.com/pa-9-pcc.html

This is where I’d look honestly

As noted above you could get a 9mm pcc if that’s what you want and pair it with a 556 AR or .22 LR AR for inside $1200

 

[Naaman]

why 'rolling the dice?'

i built (assembled) and sbr'd an 8" 9mm pcc (jp internals, glock pattern) that has run great in various uspsa matches. no reason not to do a brace/pistol instead (other than not being allowed in uspsa...). i think a pcc is a perfect hd choice, esp for those of us who aren't 'gun guys.' easy for folks to just pick up and shoot vs handguns, new shooters at matches with a pcc generally do way better than new shooters shooting handguns.

ATF has yet to declare their... "interpretation" on braces and whether they will consider them SBRs.

 

[hlee]

ATF has yet to declare their... "interpretation" on braces and whether they will consider them SBRs.

Cash...

 

[Makinchips208]

In my mind, the sweet spot for a PCC is a barrel 6 to 9 inches,

Sounds short for a carbine.
16” 9mm works pretty good.

 

[Vivacious Stallion]

He should standardize ammo for .308 and run an SBR poverty AR10. Its the most obvious option.

I had a CZ Scorpion carbine (16") for a several years before I sold it to my Dad after getting an APC9. It was a pretty good gun and accurate. However, recoil and bad trigger (even with spring kits) are valid criticisms. It was very quiet compared to a comparable 5.56 gun. I cut down 5 wild hogs with it and crappy 115gr federal ball ammo one time when I came up on them crossing a road. So don't let anyone tell you it's impossible to kill anything with a 9mm carbine. Is it as good as 5.56? No, but I've watched 55gr ball pass through them and seen them keep chugging too.

Family member also bought a CMMG Banshee 9mm for 1200 new recently and I was impressed shooting that. Kinda gassy with a can. B&T guns are nice, but finding a GHM9 with a brace right now would be hard for less than 1600, the used market might be the move. The deals are out there.

 

[FN15]

Bushmaster XM-15 M4A3 it goes for around $810. It's nothing fancy just your basic AR-15. I will tell you that it is lightweight, comes with 16 inch barrel, adjustable stock, the carry handle, it also comes with parkersized external finish and a chrome lined barrel for rust protection. Super easy to clean. The aluminum is anodized for protection from rough handling and corrosion. You can also check out the other options as well.

 

[Naaman]

Sounds short for a carbine.
16” 9mm works pretty good.

Agreed. I just feel like 16" is "a waste" for a pistol caliber (saw some ballistic charts that showed the velocity loss between 18" and 4" was something like 170 fps with 9mm). That casing can only hold so much powder. A 5.56 with a 10" barrel is good for a few hundred yards, at least... maybe triple the range of the 9mm out of pretty much any "rifle length" barrel.

But the compactness of a short barrel has its place, and in my mind (which still has a lot to learn), it seems like a barrel length longer than a handgun and shorter than a MK18 is where the PCC can "fill a gap" or at least outshine the options on either side of it in terms of barrel length and OAL.

In other words, I want the barrel exactly long ENOUGH to eek out every last bit of velocity from the bullet, and not any longer.

The response to this thread is encouraging, though (I linked my buddy to this thread so he could see the variety of opinions other than mine). If a 9mm long gun is what someone wants for self defense, its a perfectly serviceable option.

 

[Naaman]

My 9mm SBR AR is one of my funnest guns. 5.5" barrel, 9" Seekins BAR rail and an AAC TiRant suppressor.

I would love a set up like this in full auto.

View attachment 7797642

Very nice rig!

 

[Naaman]

He should standardize ammo for .308 and run an SBR poverty AR10. Its the most obvious option.

I had a CZ Scorpion carbine (16") for a several years before I sold it to my Dad after getting an APC9. It was a pretty good gun and accurate. However, recoil and bad trigger (even with spring kits) are valid criticisms. It was very quiet compared to a comparable 5.56 gun. I cut down 5 wild hogs with it and crappy 115gr federal ball ammo one time when I came up on them crossing a road. So don't let anyone tell you it's impossible to kill anything with a 9mm carbine. Is it as good as 5.56? No, but I've watched 55gr ball pass through them and seen them keep chugging too.

Family member also bought a CMMG Banshee 9mm for 1200 new recently and I was impressed shooting that. Kinda gassy with a can. B&T guns are nice, but finding a GHM9 with a brace right now would be hard for less than 1600, the used market might be the move. The deals are out there.
View attachment 7797763

I was thinking about the POF Revolution as a possible option... but $$$$$

That APC would be my 1st pick if budget were unlimited; and I'd likely get one each of the 9 and the 10... also been eyeing the SPC9.

 

[MadDuner]

Agreed. I just feel like 16" is "a waste" for a pistol caliber (saw some ballistic charts that showed the velocity loss between 18" and 4" was something like 170 fps with 9mm). That casing can only hold so much powder. A 5.56 with a 10" barrel is good for a few hundred yards, at least... maybe triple the range of the 9mm out of pretty much any "rifle length" barrel.

But the compactness of a short barrel has its place, and in my mind (which still has a lot to learn), it seems like a barrel length longer than a handgun and shorter than a MK18 is where the PCC can "fill a gap" or at least outshine the options on either side of it in terms of barrel length and OAL.

In other words, I want the barrel exactly long ENOUGH to eek out every last bit of velocity from the bullet, and not any longer.

The response to this thread is encouraging, though (I linked my buddy to this thread so he could see the variety of opinions other than mine). If a 9mm long gun is what someone wants for self defense, its a perfectly serviceable option.

My chrono testing shows more like 400fps spread between a short little 2.2" Sig P290RS and an AR9 with a full 16" barrel. Not that it matters much. You are still shooting a 9mm projectile at between 1000fps and 1400fps. I was able to push 124gr 9mm to about 1450fps before it started pushing primers back out.

Most of the time somebody with a PCC will want it shooting sub-sonic rounds suppressed out of a short barrel anyway. But a 147 or 165 gr round at 1000fps is still carrying some energy. Which of course doesn't mean much if you are comparing it to a 300BO firing a 220gr round at the same speed.

 

[502Chevelle]

A 16” pcc is still handy enough to use as a home defense gun. Self defense ammo is going to be on the warmer side, and add a longer barrel, and you get great velocity out of a bullet that will stay pretty flat out to 100 yds. It’s not precision rifle distance, but truly, how many of us have distance around our houses and neighborhoods? I live on a small farm in NC and with the trees and woods and stuff I have a max distance of 220 yds, but only in a couple directions. Most people live in neighborhoods with short distances, and a pcc would shine in that environment. Run 33 rd Glock mags with Taylor Freelance extensions but only load 40 rounds so the spring isn’t crushed, and they will last a long time. The ammo is cheap, so You can practice more, and they are so freakin fun to shoot. The recoil and muzzle blast is minimal, so wives and girlfriends won’t shy away from them, and my wife enjoys shooting hers. Is it a do all gun? No of course not. I have a pcc and an ar ready to go depending on the situation. Defend the house, I’m grabbing the pcc, bugging out, it’s the ar, but I’m glad I have my pcc. It’s a Lead Star, and it runs like a freaking top. I’ve seen a lot of names mentioned above, but if you want to know what runs and works, go to a Uspsa match. JP and Lead Star will be represented well. Gamers will NOT tolerated guns that don’t run or work, and these will get the job done.

 

[JDB55]

#1 He needs an Ar15 in 5.56 if he has just one.

Haha, ok, having said that I bought the Stribog Sp9a1 gen 2 (Direct impingement)(yes even with the questionable reviews regarding the mag issues) and it is absolutely a fantastic PCC. It's by far the most fun gun I have in my arsenal to shoot, it's made well, it's actually really accurate and the wieldability lends itself to shooting it well. The ergonomics are really good in my opinion for such a compact package. There is so much stigma around this gun due to online reviews and the original magazines being less then stellar(though I've never had any issues personally, they were primed to crack when stored full and some ammo didn't run well) however; the new curved mags developed by global ordnance/stribog jointly are wonderful and fairly cost effective. They are a completely higher tier of quality you can feel, they have run every 9mm ammo I have put through them(including various hollow points). I would recommend watching videos on them being tested. I don't hesitate to recommend this PCC and you can find it with the SB folding "brace" for a really good deal. I trust it enough to be the tool that defends my home currently if that says anything.

I have no experience with the roller delayed version but I have heard guys mention that the less felt recoil from it wasn't worth the cost increase (idk how true that is) and from my research it seemed the DI version functioned really well outside of said magazine issue originally. I think some guys had some issues with the roller delay mechanism itself but I could be completely wrong. Just my 2 cents. Good luck to your friend!

 

[JDB55]

A 16” pcc is still handy enough to use as a home defense gun. Self defense ammo is going to be on the warmer side, and add a longer barrel, and you get great velocity out of a bullet that will stay pretty flat out to 100 yds. It’s not precision rifle distance, but truly, how many of us have distance around our houses and neighborhoods? I live on a small farm in NC and with the trees and woods and stuff I have a max distance of 220 yds, but only in a couple directions. Most people live in neighborhoods with short distances, and a pcc would shine in that environment. Run 33 rd Glock mags with Taylor Freelance extensions but only load 40 rounds so the spring isn’t crushed, and they will last a long time. The ammo is cheap, so You can practice more, and they are so freakin fun to shoot. The recoil and muzzle blast is minimal, so wives and girlfriends won’t shy away from them, and my wife enjoys shooting hers. Is it a do all gun? No of course not. I have a pcc and an ar ready to go depending on the situation. Defend the house, I’m grabbing the pcc, bugging out, it’s the ar, but I’m glad I have my pcc. It’s a Lead Star, and it runs like a freaking top. I’ve seen a lot of names mentioned above, but if you want to know what runs and works, go to a Uspsa match. JP and Lead Star will be represented well. Gamers will NOT tolerated guns that don’t run or work, and these will get the job done.

I own 3 Leadstar rifles, 2 Ar15s and 1 Ar10. These aren't their extremely expensive competition lines but I absolutely love them, they are accurate and they have a higher end feel for a more mid tier price. Fantastic company/weapons from my experience.

 

[Milo 2.5]

All this talk, I am going to plunk down my 500 for the new JP 5, get in on the 2nd order.

 

[Vivacious Stallion]

I’m not part of the PCC club. They don’t do it for. But then, neither does 300ACC. I didn’t like 300blkt when it TRIED to come out the first time, years ago, as the 300 WHISPER! Which was an complete failure. (Go figure). When it comes to the AR, I’m a 223/5.56 man. Not a big fan of the Scorpion either. Also, I’m not a part time “Super-Secret, Ninja/Sniper Assassin” that likes Sub-Sonic ammo & “Ninja Silencers”. I like my guns to go “BANG”. I know, I know... everyone with one HAS A NEED FOR IT! And that’s awesome. Kudos! I don’t. (sorta like MOST don’t, even when they think they do, because they don’t want to admit they got it because it’s TACTI-COOL. Just sayin’)

That's alright, protecting one's hearing is an acquired taste. You don't NEED to wash your hands after shooting or handling ammunition/lead either, but you should.

What exactly did you not like about 300 blackout, besides that it was new and not 5.56?

$1200 is not going to get you a "super high end top tier" home brew by most people's definition on here. It will be a perfectly good rifle, but yeah.

 

[Naaman]

A 16” pcc is still handy enough to use as a home defense gun. Self defense ammo is going to be on the warmer side, and add a longer barrel, and you get great velocity out of a bullet that will stay pretty flat out to 100 yds. It’s not precision rifle distance, but truly, how many of us have distance around our houses and neighborhoods? I live on a small farm in NC and with the trees and woods and stuff I have a max distance of 220 yds, but only in a couple directions. Most people live in neighborhoods with short distances, and a pcc would shine in that environment. Run 33 rd Glock mags with Taylor Freelance extensions but only load 40 rounds so the spring isn’t crushed, and they will last a long time. The ammo is cheap, so You can practice more, and they are so freakin fun to shoot. The recoil and muzzle blast is minimal, so wives and girlfriends won’t shy away from them, and my wife enjoys shooting hers. Is it a do all gun? No of course not. I have a pcc and an ar ready to go depending on the situation. Defend the house, I’m grabbing the pcc, bugging out, it’s the ar, but I’m glad I have my pcc. It’s a Lead Star, and it runs like a freaking top. I’ve seen a lot of names mentioned above, but if you want to know what runs and works, go to a Uspsa match. JP and Lead Star will be represented well. Gamers will NOT tolerated guns that don’t run or work, and these will get the job done.

Don't get me wrong: my HD is a 9mm Glock.

 

[502Chevelle]

That’s great! You already have a head start on magazines and they should interchange between guns.

 

[Shooter McGavin]

I have a bunch of PCC firearms. 2 PSA AK-Vs, Scorpion pistol and rifle, and a PSA AR-V rifle and pistol. They all take Scorpion mags and the 35 round PSA mags have been good to go in all of them. I figured for home defense the PSA AR-V rifle was good to go and the wife and kids are able to shoot it better than 5.56. The AR-V pistol found its way into my vehicle as it is concealable and has a few 35 round mags with it. These weapons have all function well and I haven't had any problems with any of them. The PSA are inexpensive so if they are confiscated I am not out a boat load of money.

 

[Naaman]

That’s great! You already have a head start on magazines and they should interchange between guns.

Except the PCC isn't for me! If I ever do get one, it will be Glock compatible, for sure!

 

[CK1.0]

There's lots of mall ninjaing going on in this thread.

A 16" 9mm PCC is better for nearly 95% of anything one would use a 5.56 and/or .300BO AR for. You don't even need a can, a 16" 9mm is way quieter than an 8" with the best cans money can buy, and the 16" is easier to handle too because the front half end of it is a handguard and not something to burn your fingers/hand on.

Ever fire a 5.56/.300 indoors? It sucks. Bad. Even with a can. The shorter you go the worse it gets, and the bigger douchbag you are when your dumbass shows up at the local public indoor range.

With a PCC there's no concussion wave or real blast to deal with, that's why even though a 9mm PCC actually recoils a good bit harder than a 5.56, it still feels like a nerf gun. After a little practice, most can put rounds on target with a 9mm at twice the speed as an 556/300 AR.

Not to mention, they're probably the funnist thing ever.

Get a Foxtrot Mike 16", buy a real trigger to drop in (that can handle a rough life in a PCC, I recommend Hiperfire), $1.00-2.00 in quarters and a couple buffer springs to play around with to tune the stroke to your ammo... and shred away.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

MP5 still the greatest subgun ever made, smooth, low recoil, countless accessories, runs like greased owl shit.

Every self proclaimed gun guy should have one or three. As American as Apple Pie and Big Tits.

 

[502Chevelle]

Uummmmm, NO.

 

[WindstormSCR]

with the right ammunition, PCCs can absolutely be worth it. there are a few manufacturers out there making rounds with slower powder burns to maximize the performance of longer barrels (8-10” usually) or if you reload you can make some really fun stuff.

I have a 90gr Sig V-crown load that exits a KP9 barrel going about 2000fps

 

[hlee]

If you’re absolutely never going to suppress, them go 16” carbine (5.56/223). But, a short suppressed “pistol” has its uses.

 

[Steel head]

There's lots of mall ninjaing going on in this thread.

A 16" 9mm PCC is better for nearly 95% of anything one would use a 5.56 and/or .300BO AR for. You don't even need a can, a 16" 9mm is way quieter than an 8" with the best cans money can buy, and the 16" is easier to handle too because the front half end of it is a handguard and not something to burn your fingers/hand on.

Ever fire a 5.56/.300 indoors? It sucks. Bad. Even with a can. The shorter you go the worse it gets, and the bigger douchbag you are when your dumbass shows up at the local public indoor range.

With a PCC there's no concussion wave or real blast to deal with, that's why even though a 9mm PCC actually recoils a good bit harder than a 5.56, it still feels like a nerf gun. After a little practice, most can put rounds on target with a 9mm at twice the speed as an 556/300 AR.

Not to mention, they're probably the funnist thing ever.

Get a Foxtrot Mike 16", buy a real trigger to drop in (that can handle a rough life in a PCC, I recommend Hiperfire), $1.00-2.00 in quarters and a couple buffer springs to play around with to tune the stroke to your ammo... and shred away.

Just so pleasant to shoot.

If I SBR’d it I’d probably go with a 11-12” barrel.