A couple of weeks ago I bought a Steiner M5 XI 5-25 "used" It had never been mounted and looked like it just came out of the box. I when to the range today to zero and it took 7.5 mils. up, to zero. Does this sound like a lot of adjustment> I have it mounted in a Spuhr 20 MOA mount.
Rifle Scopes Took 7.5 mils up, to zero scope
- Thread starter stradibarrius
- Start date
What kind of rifle? The folks at Vortex told me that some rifles (like my Savage) that have a barrel nut can have this happen. They suggested that I rotate the barrel while keeping the specs within the tolerances of the go/no go guages to remedy. It shoots great, so I've opted to live with it.
It's a Sako TRG 22 .308 It's not the gun I just swapped scopes for the M5xi. I was just wondering what an average number of mils are needed to zero a new scope?
If you received the scope from the factory centered and then mounted it on a 20 MOA rail it would take 5+ mils to simply overcome the 20 MOA cant. Beyond that, it is also typical to consume another 1-2 mil getting to your 100 yd/m zero. Your 7.5 mils seems reasonable.
Real question is how many mils of up adjustment do you have left? Is it more than half of the scope’s total elevation adjustment? If not, any chance you mounted the Spuhr mount backwards?
Real question is how many mils of up adjustment do you have left? Is it more than half of the scope’s total elevation adjustment? If not, any chance you mounted the Spuhr mount backwards?
I'm assuming that you came up 7.5 mils from the bottom of the adjustment range and still have 18.5 ish mils of adjustment left? If so, sounds close. You'd need about 45moa/13.1mil rail or mount to get the full 26 mils of adjustment.
26 mils = center at 13 mils + 6 mils spuhr mount = 19 mils adjustment. (spuhr should be technically 20.6 moa to make an even 6 mils).
Unrelated note......I can't wait until moa finally dies and everyone speaks mils.
26 mils = center at 13 mils + 6 mils spuhr mount = 19 mils adjustment. (spuhr should be technically 20.6 moa to make an even 6 mils).
Unrelated note......I can't wait until moa finally dies and everyone speaks mils.
20 MOA = 5.8 MIL
So it really only took 1.7 MIL of adjustment to zero. That's what I'd consider normal. Usually only takes me .2 - .5 MIL to zero elevation though. But it will depend on your rifle/barrel/smith/mount/action/rail, etc. If everything is very square and true, it will take less elevation to zero.
So it really only took 1.7 MIL of adjustment to zero. That's what I'd consider normal. Usually only takes me .2 - .5 MIL to zero elevation though. But it will depend on your rifle/barrel/smith/mount/action/rail, etc. If everything is very square and true, it will take less elevation to zero.
Did you install the mount backwards?
When zeroing with an moa base, shouldn't you be technically dialing 'down' (as in the opposite direction of drop compensation) to maximize your elevation setup?
When zeroing with an moa base, shouldn't you be technically dialing 'down' (as in the opposite direction of drop compensation) to maximize your elevation setup?
? Seems light..
Scope over Bore + drop lets use 100 zero = come-up
So in my case with a 2.4” SOB (SPUHR). All things straight with a 6.5 it would be about 1.3mil
Depends if he was zeroing from the optical/mechanical zero of the scope or with the turrets bottomed out.
Dthomas, you seem to understand my set up correctly. The scope has 26 mils of UP travel from mechanical zero on the scope. The Sphur mount is 20.6 which equals 6 mils. So once I reset my vertical knob to zero that leaves me with about 19 mils of travel. I did not check to see if the scope had any downward travel before I "zeroed" the gun at the range. If I increase the MOA value of the mount I would have more verticle travel left for a longer shot, is that correct? Would I still be able to zero at 100yds?I'm assuming that you came up 7.5 mils from the bottom of the adjustment range and still have 18.5 ish mils of adjustment left? If so, sounds close. You'd need about 45moa/13.1mil rail or mount to get the full 26 mils of adjustment.
26 mils = center at 13 mils + 6 mils spuhr mount = 19 mils adjustment. (spuhr should be technically 20.6 moa to make an even 6 mils).
Unrelated note......I can't wait until moa finally dies and everyone speaks mils.
As it is at a 1000yds 18-19 mils would allow me to "adjust" for 54 feet of drop....correct? 36" x 18 mils = 648"/12"= 54'
I wouldn’t try and get that last 5.8 mils. In my opinion you have your zero in a good spot. You don’t want it it all the way at the bottom.
Thanks everyone for helping me think this through. At this point in my "shooting" adventure I am still aiming for the 1000yd mark. If I, the gun, can shoot out to a 1000 and not require me to hold over I am happy. I do have a good zero as it is currently set-up and it was easy to get there.
I have the same exact scope and mine also has around 20 MILs of travel with my Nightforce 20 MOA base. With a 308 that should get you to farther than you should need to shoot anyway. You should be in good shape.
Agreed. Unless you are shooting ER, you have plenty of adjustment to engage most any normal LR target.
There are some different opinions on maxing out your adjustment for the sake of min/maxing. Some people who go this route even leave their optic turned up towards mechanical zero whilst not in use so to relive tension from springs on the erector housing. Logically this makes sense to me, but it also makes sense that high end optics would use springs fully capable of handling it.
Either way, sounds like you are fine with your current setup. Just need to make sure it tracks correctly now.
There are some different opinions on maxing out your adjustment for the sake of min/maxing. Some people who go this route even leave their optic turned up towards mechanical zero whilst not in use so to relive tension from springs on the erector housing. Logically this makes sense to me, but it also makes sense that high end optics would use springs fully capable of handling it.
Either way, sounds like you are fine with your current setup. Just need to make sure it tracks correctly now.
Yep. That would be almost 12 mils. He’d be a little over 1 mil from being bottomed out with 40moa. I think around 45moa would give just over 13mils and theoretically allow the full adjustment.
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Your 7.5 Mils is 25.787moa so accounting for your 20moa base then in reality you have only come up 5,787moa OR 1.6077 Mils so it really is pretty good in all honesty,
hope that helps.
John.
hope that helps.
John.
My Spuhr mount was actually 7mils not 6. After I rotated the turret back to zero I had 21.6 mils of elevation left.
Thanks for all the help.
Thanks for all the help.
Guys I am having a hard time wrapping my head around this am I thinking about this wrong, but doesn't using a canted base force you to use more downward adjustment to achieve a 100yd zero so it leaves you with more upward elevation adjustment? So shouldn't the OP have needed to go down not up for his 100yd zero? (Assuming the rifle scope was at its mechanical/default zero when he started)
He started with the scope cranked all the way down so that he had 26 mils of total up adjustment. Slapped a 7 mil base on it. So instead of needing to move down 7 mils, he needed to move up 7 mils to accommodate.
I went back and reread the entire thread he didn't really explain that he cranked it all the way down first which is what I think he is incorrectly considering "mechanical zero", but yea I get what he did now.
I've never heard that on a new scope you had to reset the turret and then try to turn it down more???? Is this something that is required?
I want to clarify something to the OP......
Mechanical zero is when the scopes turrets are in the middle of their adjustment range the way it should come from the factory if it were brand new out-of-the-box. Another words if your scope has a total of 26 mills of adjustment from the factory it would’ve been in the middle and would’ve had 13 up and 13 down mechanical zero is not when the turrets are cranked all the way down. The way I assume after reading this is what you did to begin with. I am not trying to be a know it all or beat a dead horse here I just wanted you to understand that.
Mechanical zero is when the scopes turrets are in the middle of their adjustment range the way it should come from the factory if it were brand new out-of-the-box. Another words if your scope has a total of 26 mills of adjustment from the factory it would’ve been in the middle and would’ve had 13 up and 13 down mechanical zero is not when the turrets are cranked all the way down. The way I assume after reading this is what you did to begin with. I am not trying to be a know it all or beat a dead horse here I just wanted you to understand that.
Thanks for the explaination...does that mean that the scope would come from the factory with the turret a 13 or zero. If zero then to regain the additional 13 mils down I would have to loosen the turret and readjust? Zero stop would keep me from dialing in the "down 13 mils.
The zero stop is typically separate from the turret zero. Example of turrets with the zero and the stop combined would be Razor Gen II and AMG. Typically, the zero stop is run all the way down so you have full range of the turrets, you would then set your 100 yard(or whatever) zero, take the turrets off, set the zero stop, and then replace your turret with the "0" centered.
No idea what you're talking about. All I'm saying is that when you get a NEW scope, they are typically centered mechanically. If you put the scope on a canted base/rail, you need to compensate for that canted rail/mount to "re-center" your optic. Then you zero. And when I do that on my rifles, I find that I really only need a few tenths of a mil to zero because everything on my rifles is straight and true. My barrels are not bent. The actions are square. The rails are square. The scopes are working properly. So I never need a full mil of adjustment to zero at 100 yards. One of my rifles only required 0.2 MIL of elevation change to zero. The other one needed 0.5 MIL. Easy.
Your mileage may vary. Depends on your setup.
But for the OP, taking his 20 MOA mount into account, and the elevation needed to zero is fine. Especially since he was starting at the bottom of his scope's adjustment range instead of mechanical center.
When the line of sight is let’s say 2” (in my case usually more) above our bore and the scope perfectly centered, you must make up that difference. The bullet is also dropping. So even at 100, if all was square, your looking above the Bore height + bullet drop needs to be accounted for; you need much more change to account for than the numbers you indicated. Just trying to point that basic part out, not trying to be a dick.
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I have the Steiner MX5i 25x scope. Loosen the two cap screw then bottom out the turrets and tight the screws again. Now turn the turrent from bottom to top, you should have 27mil of travel. If you don’t, previous owner must mis align the turrent cap positions.
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