Range Report Torque values and my 308

[calling4life]

I shot from a bench, bipod up front, my hand used for a rest in the back. So I'm not doing this from a lead sled, however, I am a constant, all but a couple check groups on torque value 45/50 were on the same day. I let the barrel cool between groups, I loosened action screws, then re-torqued to settings.

45/50 means 45 in/lbs on front (furthest towards muzzle), 50 in/lbs on rear (right in front of trigger).

Shooting federal gold medal 168's for torque testing, the 600 yard group was me testing 175's.

My gun is skim bedded, so why, at times, I saw an enormous difference in groups with as little as 5 in/lbs difference, IDK.

Gun is a Savage 10FCP in a choate tactical, stock package from Cabelas. GAP cut/recrowned and put a badger FTE on, she's now 18" long. I have a SSS comp trigger on it now @ 1 1/4lbs, it is fantastic.
I have a Sightron SIII 8-32x56 on top w/MOA reticle. I bought the Mil/Mil model from opticsplanet a couple months ago, had debris inside, they returned it, answered questions, paid for shipping back to them, I got a MOA reticle this time.
I have debris in this scope as well, I will now go back to Sightron for a solution, love the scope, love the clarity, accurate turrets, can't have debris bouncing around.

Aside: I use the "Live Talk" feature on OpticsPlanet for questions, problems, and whether they have a product in stock, when they expect it, and I even bug them on how reliable the delivery dates are.

Whether or not this gentleman can actually get those answers IDK, but I've bought several scopes from them with excellent customer service, when they give me delivery dates they are accurate, or I end up getting products sooner. They have been excellent, so I continue to use them.

 

[calling4life]

Re: Torque values and my 308

So, pictures:

<span style="font-weight: bold">100yards</span>

 

[calling4life]

Re: Torque values and my 308

<span style="font-weight: bold">200 yards and further</span>

These groups were at times appalling to me, ranging in torque from 40 front and 25 in the back to 40 front and 50 in the back.
They were shot at 200 yards

40 in the front and 20 in back, this shot a couple good groups, but 40/25 was bad...?

45/50 Seems to be the best, but 50/50 may get some more testing, 200 & 300 yards

600 yards, this is prone, accushot mono in the back, bipod up front, this is also testing the 175's. I don't know which 5 were the group, either way, one group was 1.018 other was 1.118. This groups I was aiming at the 3/4" white dot. The group before used the 3" round orange target and the group was damn near 3 times the size... aim small miss small right?

 

[calling4life]

Re: Torque values and my 308

So, if you went through all that, I would like some insight into what you think of it, good, bad, or otherwise.

I've been disappointed, before I had my barrel cut down, groups over MOA sent me through the roof, and groups over 1 1/2 moa were labeled as drunken mistakes.

I honestly don't believe this thing is shooting as well as it was before, hence all this torque value testing, I actually tested 30/20 through 40/45 another day as well, I just re-used the target before getting pictures.

It is fun with the short barrel and brake though, as long as I'm hitting

 

[dieselten]

Re: Torque values and my 308

If the rifle is properly pillar bedded (read stress free), action screw torque will have minimal affect on group sizes. Your bedding is bad. Hog it out with a dremel and re-do it.

 

[Killswitch Engage]

Re: Torque values and my 308

if it were me and this is just me....i would throw that piece of shit choate stock out. get a chassis or a good stock. you should have no need to varry your torque setting between screws. everything i've ever owned got 65in lb on both screws.

try torquing them both to 65 and see what happens.

 

[3wide]

Re: Torque values and my 308


For accuracy testing, may want to use a rear bag?

Tough deal with your scope situation. Sucks but atleast it sounds like your being taken care of.

 

[BradfromND]

Re: Torque values and my 308

I told C4L I'd redo the bedding job on his rifle for him. Here is what I found. There was a big blob of shit on top of the bedding block in the rear on one side of the action. Underneath the front action screw, a straight edge would rock back and forth. The is the most heinous excuse for a bedding job I've ever seen!

Booger on the bedding block.

Beautiful old bedding job....

Ground out, ready for a new pile of goop. I don't think you'll be able to see both sides of the block on the finished job as it looked like a beaver tried chewing away at a tree from the old job.

Fresh stuff and a quick pic after cleaning up the excess.

I'll post a couple pictures tomorrow once I get the inlet cleaned up. Hopefully this helps the problem.

 

[coues7]

Re: Torque values and my 308

Interesting. I know there are different gun builders out there that recommend different torque settings.

 

[Gunfighting Inc]

Re: Torque values and my 308

Why the tape wrapped around the action? All the bedding jobs I have done used a release agent (wax shoe polish will work) so as to get the most precise fit between metal and stock. The only area I place a layer of tape is on the from face of the action lug to get a few thousandths clearance for easier removal, but nowhere else.

65/65 torque is standard for action screws in a synthetic stock. All this playing around with asymmetric variety used a lot of bullets to determine you had another underlying problem (no pun intended).

 

[Cserv]

Re: Torque values and my 308

Looks like the tape is only around the barrel nut, not the action. This is how you do a Savage. There is a little at the tang aswell.
Eric

 

[BradfromND]

Re: Torque values and my 308

Cserv is right, a couple layers around the barrel nut and under the tang to maintain free float. Front, sides and bottom of recoil lug also got a layer of tape. It was bedded using 2 rings of tape on the barrel to support the weight of the action while letting the action sit in the bedding compound completely stress free.

The reason Brett did this whole test was because he had sent his rifle off this winter and had 8 inches cut off the barrel and an FTE brake put on. Ever since the work was done, the rifle hasn't shot nearly as well as it did last year. He had read an article/thread from a highly regarded shooter about tuning action screw torque to help wring out the best possible accuracy. He figured it was worth a shot.

Here are a couple pics of the finished bedding job. Turned out nice especially considering the way the block/stock were chewed up before hand. In person you can just make out the aluminum block just underneath the Devcon. Feeds perfectly and should be much more stable than before.

He's going to shoot it in a couple days and report back.

 

[Gunfighting Inc]

Re: Torque values and my 308

Looks good. I bet it will give better results, too. Good work.

 

[calling4life]

Re: Torque values and my 308

Yes, this was a; "read article, hmmm, I wonder..." and go try screwing around with torque values, it happened to noticeably change my group sizes so I did more testing.

Like I stated earlier, this was the results of two of the three or four days I tested this. It wasn't a end all be all, all factual no human error, scientific study. It was a thought of; "I should post this up just to show what has happened, the effect this has had."

Even with a blob of bedding being there and being perhaps the number one cause, it is still a good reminder as to what something like this being out of check can do.

As far as all the shooting... Well, I bought the gun to shoot it, not to let it sit in the safe, though, between scope problems, gunsmith problems, and just being at the smith to be modified, I haven't gotten out as much as I would like.

500-600 rounds in the last month-ish, I'm sure another 100 or so will be put through this week(end), but I've got to refuel on ammo.

 

[calling4life]

Re: Torque values and my 308

I would like to add that I went to Sightron to fix debris in my scope, this is the second SIII in about a month span that had this problem.

Was told it was a bad batch, alright, I need the scope quick, I've spent enough time messing around with this...

They paid to have it second day aired to them, sent on Tuesday, I was called on Friday and it was being second day aired back.

Kind, Courteous, Understanding, I received absolutely fantastic customer service from them, and as shown, quick, at their expense and they brought up/offered the second day air.

Fantastic and I'm happy to own their product.

 

[calling4life]

Re: Torque values and my 308

I got out to the range, wanted to test the 175's more.

So, new bedding job, I used a 9-13" harris ultralight up front, allowed me to use the mono in the back "correctly."

It was torqued to 60/60 and I'm not messing with it, at least until it settles in with the new bedding job.

These 100 yard groups were actually the last I shot, people showed up and I couldn't shoot at the further distances, it is also why the 300 yard group was cut to 3 shots.

200 yards

300 yards- I used the first shot to create a target, I couldn't make the light yellow dots out well enough to consider them a good target, the bullet hole worked well.

 

[calling4life]

Re: Torque values and my 308

Here is a group I shot with the 168's at 200.

I have a case of these sitting here to work with, may go shoot some fclass with them tomorrow.