Total newb in need of advice

[DustyLR]

Hello Snipers Hide,

I am in the process of building out my first long range rifle and I have a few questions that I think you folks may be able to help with. I will be purchasing a Tikka T3x CTR 24" 6.5 CM and an Athlon optics Ares ETR 4.5-30x56mm MIL scope. Super excited about this!

Now, my primary questions are this:

- What is "better" a 20 MOA rail or a scope mount with 20MOA elevation? Is there any practical difference that I should be aware of?

- I need/want a bubble level - should I buy a scope mount with one included in that or just one that mounts directly to the scope itself? Is there any perceived benefit/drawback to either option?

- What scope mounting solution would you suggest for me? (I don't mind paying good money for it, suggest what you will and I will determine from those suggestions what will best fit my budget)

I should note that 95% of the time I pick this rifle up I will only be target shooting, but I do want some elevation in my rail/mount so that I can more easily dial in long shots. The remaining 5% of the time I pick this rifle up I will be either hunting or going to a long range PRS style match. What matters most to me is that I have a fun gun that I can hit 1000yrd targets with that still has practical application when I take it hunting.

Thank you to everyone who reads this and I look forward to your suggestions on scope mounts that might work for me!

 

[spife7980]

I would go with the cant built into the base that way you can put any scope mounted in any normal rings on it.
That said if you already have a canted sphur or something then go with what you already have. No sense in spending more money to get what you already have.

I dont run bubble levels so I would say to buy it separate.

I like ARC m10 rings for anything Im serious about. For the other stuff Ill use the 80 buck nightforce, leupold or steiner rings etc, not perfect but they have a good name behind them that I trust more than some amazon knockoff.

 

[DustyLR]

I would go with the cant built into the base that way you can put any scope mounted in any normal rings on it.
That said if you already have a canted sphur or something then go with what you already have. No sense in spending more money to get what you already have.

I dont run bubble levels so I would say to buy it separate.

I like ARC m10 rings for anything Im serious about. For the other stuff Ill use the 80 buck nightforce, leupold or steiner rings etc, not perfect but they have a good name behind them that I trust more than some amazon knockoff.

I was just looking at the M10 rings! Those look really good and seem to be high quality. My question about those (and I guess this applies to all scope mounts) with a 56mm objective lens and the 20 MOA rail, will I need to run medium, high, or extra high mounts in order to accommodate for such a large obj?

 

[spife7980]

Medium should suffice, that’s what I run with my 56mm.

Here’s a pic of my rem700 Cronus btr in high m10s with a leupold 20moa base and a criterion varmint profile, gives me a height over bore of 2.16”
Plenty of space above the barrel but also keeps me above my can and my X-ray check piece with weibad pad is bottomed out. I wouldn’t go shorter than mediums but with the ctr stock drop they should be good.

 

[Kraze]

If you're concerned about the objective clearing the barrel, there's a thread on here with a formula you can use to see if it will clear: https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/ring-height-info-how-to-measure-correctly.20706/

And I second the 20 MOA base and M10 suggestion. The stock rail might fight you a bit when you go to take it off, but a little bit of heat should help with that.

 

[DownhillFromHere]

I agree with 20-minute rail as opposed to rings. But, as owner of a Tikka T3x TAC A1 with a flat 0-degree rail, I can tell you for absolute certain that you can get to 1000 yards without additional cant - at least I can, with a Gen-1 Vortex Razor 5-20x50 in Vortex/Seekins rings. I shoot 1000 yards maybe ten times a year. I shoot 600 yards or less twice a week. Early on, I had a lot more things I wanted to sped $ on than a 20-minute rail (and the significant effort it takes to change the stock rail on a Tikka).

Bubble level: Lots of people here kinda dump on them, but all four of my rifles wear a standard Vortex bubble level mounted as far forward on the scope as I can get it. It's a good-sized bubble, and in that position I can check it VERY quickly with my cheek welded in shooting position. Don't bother with a cheap bubble. Get a decent one or save your $. The little bitty ones are useless to me because I've had cataract surgery and I can't focus closer than 10 feet without reading glasses, and the smaller they are the less sensitive they are. The Vortex is big enough that it's very useful to me. As far as built-in ones go, well, check 'em if you end up with one. I have one rifle in an MPA chassis with a level in back of the tang cutout. It was way off level; it was easy to correct with a bit of shimming. And it's completely invisible to me with my head in shooting position.

Finally, buy a Wheeler FAT wrench (inch-pounds torque screwdriver) for sure, maybe one of the kits with levels, because you'll find yourself mounting/dismounting the scope(s) more than you expect. Uneven tightening or over-tightening can do Bad Things to accuracy or even the scope. I can level my scope using bubbles and/or the compass on my phone - I've checked the latter with an extremely accurate engineer's level and the iPhone pretty much matched it - but if someone were to put an Arisaka Defense leveling tool in my stocking I'd be a happy camper.

Welcome to long range. If it sucks you in, you're gonna love it and it's gonna cost ya! ;-)

 

[Nik H]

My 2 cents

1. Cant in the rail for certain.
2. I use a bubble on all my rifles. Mounted on the scope tube. I buy the FlatlineOps Covert. Yes it is expensive but it is super visible without breaking position and built like a tank. I have one on every stick. The cost difference between these and others is totally inconsequential relative to the other costs for this hobby. Not saying there aren't other good levels for less money. Important part is mounted on the tube NOT the rail
3. ARC M10...don't make the height a science project unless you have a non-adjustable cheek piece. I have used a lot of different rings but these are truly amazing.

Most of all....remember that perfect practice makes a perfect shooter.

 

[DustyLR]

Thanks for everyone's replies! I think the medium will do just fine, that looks like a pretty significant amount of clearance and with the Tikka's stock there is no adjustable comb height so I'll keep it as low as I can. I do plan on eventually switching the stock to a KRG Bravo stock. Thought about just buying a howa and calling it a day, but it seems the accuracy isn't quite as notable as the Tikka... So I'm willing to pay a little more to know that my gun isn't the issue when I'm missing, its me.

One more newbie question: Why in sam hill do more companies not sell barreled actions? All I can find in that category is Howa (cheap and little aftermarket support) and full custom actions (cost as much as a used truck). Why is there no middle ground? Why must I buy a stock with an action that I know I'm just going to toss aside in a number of months to replace it with something better? Is there a legitimate reason companies don't do this or am I just missing something?

 

[spife7980]

One more newbie question: Why in sam hill do more companies not sell barreled actions?

Because we are in the minority, its all the average joes at cabelas where the real money is at and they are too stupid to screw on their own stock.

 

[1500varmint]

Why in sam hill do more companies not sell barreled actions? All I can find in that category is Howa (cheap and little aftermarket support) ...

Cheap?

*prepares to get feathers ruffled*

 

[DustyLR]

Because we are in the minority, its all the average joes at cabelas where the real money is at and they are too stupid to screw on their own stock.

Okay that makes sense. It's the somewhat disappointing answer I was expecting.

Cheap?

*prepares to get feathers ruffled*

Of course they're not cheap in the sense that $500 is throw-away money. If you compare it to a twix bar at your local gas station then yeah, a Howa action is pretty expensive.

I'm just putting things into perspective - Howa actions certainly seem to be the entry point into a rifle build, which is why I referred to them as "cheap" when comparing them to everything else I've seen. All I'm saying is that there is a significant gap in the market place in between Howa actions (entry level) and custom actions (prohibitively expensive for most people, costing something to the tune of $1,300 - $2,000 and even more sometimes). There just seems to be no "middle ground" in barreled actions. Personally I would love to buy a Rem 700 BA and I would be more than willing to pay $900 for it. I just don't really want to buy all the parts and have them assembled as there's really not a gunsmith I trust within a 100 mile radius (seriously, one is incompetent and the other will ask for your left testicle to do something as simple as remove a stripped RMR screw).

I certainly hope I didn't offend anyone but I think my comment stands true within the scope of what we're discussing.

 

[1500varmint]

I was totally kidding Dusty.

I got a Howa precisely because it was the cheapest way I could do a quality build!

 

[DustyLR]

Sometimes things don't shine through on the internet LOL!

 

[DustyLR]

Well boys I did a thing and now I have some more questions for you.

https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...led-action-manners-cert.6913635/#post-7365218

I bought this. Sooooooo now what I need to know is what is a good bottom metal that I can order for a rem 700 action that will fit a manners stock and AICS mags. Are they all kinda the same or are some better than others?

Btw... I am f***ing JACKED. Talk about a seriously BA gun... this thing is gonna look like pure sex in a manners...

 

[spife7980]

Lots of options, manners can inlet the stock for whatever you choose so theres not really a "will fit a manners" issue. Now, if youre buying one thats already inletted thats a different story. Usually m5 pattern bottom metals are interchangeable.

Theres badger, surgeon, ptg, h&s, accuratemag and the list goes on and on. Mostly they are all badger m5 pattern though.

You could get a minichassis and skip picking a bottom metal all together.

 

[1500varmint]

Well boys I did a thing and now I have some more questions for you.

https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...led-action-manners-cert.6913635/#post-7365218

I bought this. Sooooooo now what I need to know is what is a good bottom metal that I can order for a rem 700 action that will fit a manners stock and AICS mags. Are they all kinda the same or are some better than others?

Btw... I am f***ing JACKED. Talk about a seriously BA gun... this thing is gonna look like pure sex in a manners...

VERY nice!

Be sure to post pictures when everything is assembled!!

 

[Sogan]

Good buy!

 

[christopher.dow]

8<
You could get a minichassis and skip picking a bottom metal all together.

I regret not doing this.

 

[DustyLR]

Lots of options, manners can inlet the stock for whatever you choose so theres not really a "will fit a manners" issue. Now, if youre buying one thats already inletted thats a different story. Usually m5 pattern bottom metals are interchangeable.

Theres badger, surgeon, ptg, h&s, accuratemag and the list goes on and on. Mostly they are all badger m5 pattern though.

You could get a minichassis and skip picking a bottom metal all together.

I need to do more research, but I was under the assumption that a short action fit a short action chassis, long action fit a long action chassis, and a ... mini action fit a mini action chassis? I still have a long way to go xD this is a whole different world than were I usually reside within the 2A community (AR's and Glocks, mostly). Thank you for the recommendations on bottom metal to look into thought, this process is SO much easier when I can ask my "dumb questions" freely and have people with more knowledge help me out. Super appreciative!

VERY nice!

Be sure to post pictures when everything is assembled!!

Oh I will! Still gonna throw that Athlon on there in the ARC M10 rings... Gonna be soooooooo hawt. I was just posting about the lack of barreled actions in this thread and so I decided to throw "barreled actions" up in the search bar... then about 4 hours after that I bought it. This really worked out perfect, little bit more cash than I had set up for it but DAMN did I get a whole lot more rifle out of that cash!

 

[spife7980]

I need to do more research, but I was under the assumption that a short action fit a short action chassis, long action fit a long action chassis, and a ... mini action fit a mini action chassis?

Disconnect in what I was referring to. Howa makes a mini action for example but thats not what the mini chassis is for.

Manners makes a "mini chassis" in the it isnt an entire huge single chunk of metal the entire length of the rifle like the MPA or MDT or KRG etc. Manners has Badger make them a metal chassis that is basically only under the action and then they form their stock around it.

https://mannersstocks.com/mcs-bdl-dbm-mini-chassis/
This thing

Is embedded in this thing replacing the need for pillars, bedding in most cases and a separate bottom metal. Its all in one.

 

[Precisiondada]

Get the non-rotational flush cups if ur going to be adding them.

 

[DustyLR]

Well besides feeling like a fool, that looks awesome! And that would solve my "lack-of-a-gunsmith" issue from the looks of it... more research is going down now!

 

[spife7980]

Well besides feeling like a fool, that looks awesome! And that would solve my "lack-of-a-gunsmith" issue from the looks of it... more research is going down now!

Thats what has spurred on a lot of this chassis craze. Bolt and go.

And lots of adjustability.

 

[DustyLR]

Thats what has spurred on a lot of this chassis craze. Bolt and go.

And lots of adjustability.

Bolt and go is what I'm going for. I like modular systems as well. I do like some of the chassis-type rifles I see but the more and more I look the more and more I just want a rifle and not a transformer. I am also pretty excited now that I'm playing around with the manners stock builder online, it seems like they have really been able to integrate this system into a lot of (if not all) their stocks, so I really get to pick exactly what I want... So nice!

If anyone reading this has experience with ordering Manners Stocks, approx how long did it take to get yours? I've heard anywhere from 3 months to 8 months. Which is certainly not a big deal, I just don't want to set myself up for 3 months and then it actually take 7.

 

[Sogan]

See if you can get behind any of these stocks that you are interested in - Local range or match should have multiple styles to choose from. I love the look of a manners stock but prefer the feel of an MPA chassis and the added adjustments that come with it without having to add additional rails etc to the Manners

 

[DustyLR]

See if you can get behind any of these stocks that you are interested in - Local range or match should have multiple styles to choose from. I love the look of a manners stock but prefer the feel of an MPA chassis and the added adjustments that come with it.

I was also looking at a MPA for awhile, but the thing is I got this barreled action that came with a $500 gift certificate for a manners... which is REALLY pushing me that direction. If the GC applied to MPA I might go that way, but I can't turn down $500 off.

 

[Sutherlandsd]

The MPA chassis is very popular for a reason, it works. I am close to ordering an MPA hybrid for a new build.

 

[DustyLR]

The MPA chassis is very popular for a reason, it works. I am close to ordering an MPA hybrid for a new build.

Yep, I was interested in the hybrid chassis. I liked that one because of the modularity... but man, that Manners T6A is just calling my name. Priced one out and with my $500 GC I’ll get it for less than $500... can’t beat that!

 

[Sutherlandsd]

It's hard to beat a manners t6 at that price

 

[Sogan]

Yep, I was interested in the hybrid chassis. I liked that one because of the modularity... but man, that Manners T6A is just calling my name. Priced one out and with my $500 GC I’ll get it for less than $500... can’t beat that!

I can’t blame you one bit for going that route

 

[DustyLR]

Well... So I'm somewhat reconsidering the manners. By the time its all said and done it will be more expensive than buying the MPA hybrid, and I do think that for my purposes it will be nice to have more flexibility and modularity in the rifle stock than not having it.

That being said, would anyone be interested in the GC? It is for $500 flat. Message me if you want to talk more about it!

*Edit: Just to clarify: The GC is a $500 discount on ANY manners stock you want. My plan was to use it to get a stock started and then pay it off as I went, now that my plan has changed I have no need for it.