Totally at a loss

[jason8251]

I'm new to reloading, about 2000 rounds in my life and I'm totally lost here. I made 200 rounds of .223 with the only difference being 100 were new Winchester cases and 100 were new Lapua cases. I wanted to see if the Lapua's were that much better. I would shoot 10 Winchesters and then 10 Lapuas and so on ..... I got to the 60th Lapua and nothing, tried 10 in a row. Went back to the Wichesters and they fired fine so it's not the rifle. I even shot 10 Black Hills factory rounds to make sure. I then went back and tried 3 more of the Lapuas to make sure I didn't skip a row when I was charging the cases on the reloading block. The dimples on the primers of the "duds" looked the same as the cases that fired.

I made all 200 rounds at the same time using CCI BR-4's and a Lee hand priming tool, same powder out of the same container and everything.

1. Is it safe to pull the bullets on the "duds" with the primers dimpled?
2. Would I feel/hear the primers ignite even if there is no powder in the cases?

At the risk of opening myself up tp a barage of shit talking I say there are no stupid suggestions here fellas, I'm totally lost and can handle the abuse. That Lapua brass is F%^*((* expensive and I dont want to waste any more of it.

 

[sharac]

Re: Totally at a loss

Could be primers not seated deep enough on the other hand could be something else hard to judge over the net.

Myself i wouldn't go banging them with hammer, use non kinetic puller or pliers (ruins bullets) and some soft touch. I'd be sure to wear goggles, gloves etc.. and do one round and carefully inspect the rest before going further...


It all boils down to what are you willing to risk/pay however if you are careful i think you can relatively safely disassemble those rounds. Same as depriming live primers, if you do it correctly theres little chance of them going off..

 

[jason8251]

Re: Totally at a loss

Yeah I figure it has to be something I did while seating the primers it just seems like too much of a coincdedense since I was seperating the brass by brand as I was priming them so they were all mixed as I was doing it and I only had a problem with the Lapuas. All the winchester cases fired as they should.

 

[vman]

Re: Totally at a loss

Jason, get a few deprimed cases and prime them. Prime one with as much force as you can, and prime another with your usual form.

Leave them at that. Do not charge or seat them.

Fire them both.

Did you hear bangs?

If one bangs and the other doesnt, it may be your seating.

If none bang, get your bolt looked at.

 

[High Binder]

Re: Totally at a loss

You would know it if the primer went off. It would have send the bullet into the barrel a ways and it make s a very loud bang. Prime a piece of brass and try it, you'll be shocked how loud it is.

 

[Victor N TN]

Re: Totally at a loss

Like mentioned above, try priming with different forces on the priming tool. But use UNCHARGED CASES. This way if there is a real problem, you don't potentially have a small bomb on your hands.

If they all go bang, then charge the cases.

As for pulling the bullets, I used to use an RCBS collet type to pull rifle bullets. But I have recently gotten a Hornady cam type puller. It's the way to go. You can adjust the tension and it's a lot faster.

Good luck.

 

[dogmessiah]

Re: Totally at a loss

I have had this happen to me a few times, it happens a fair bit when I load 45acp with wolf primers and aguila cases. I rechamber them and pull the trigger again. Generally they go off the second time.

 

[vman]

Re: Totally at a loss

oh, by the way, post up pics of primers that didnt go off.

I wonder if the primers went off, or have spoiled due to environmental conditions perhaps?

I guess if the packaging looks like its been wet and dried, then maybe they are FUBAR

 

[jason8251]

Re: Totally at a loss

Thanks for all the input fellas, it has to be a seating problem, it just threw me because it was all Lapua cases. Maybe the primer pockets are a touch larger and I seated the primers in the cases too deep. I will try to re-fire them if nothing I will destroy them. I'm not too comfortable with pushing live primers out of cases.

I'll also prime some empty cases with different seating depths and experiment. It's definately not a rifle problem because I fired 40 or so more rounds after all this started. I'm pretty sure the primers are good, the box looks fine and they went from the store to my house. I reload in a spare bedrooom so it's not like they were stored in th is goode garage or anything.

I'm up in Fayetteville for the rest of the week but I'll post pics of the primers that didn't go off this weekend when I get home and ya'll can see if you see anything that I may have jacked up. Thanks for all your help fellas I really do appreciate it.

 

[former naval person]

Re: Totally at a loss

Weigh the dimpled cases and a known loaded case...25 grains of difference will show you whether the powder is in there. And, NO it will not hurt to pull the bullets.

 

[jason8251]

Re: Totally at a loss

Thanks Warrant, I thought of weighing the cases but right now I only have a Lee safety scale that only goes to 100 gr. and like Shot in the dark said I would have herd the primers fire and the bullets would have at least left the cases.

 

[Rock-N-Ruin]

Re: Totally at a loss

Like said above, weigh a known loaded/charged case.. then weigh the ones in question.. You would know if a primer went off without powder in front of it..

 

[vman]

Re: Totally at a loss

Dont destroy those lapua cases

A hornady bullet puller die will be much cheaper to buy compared to new cases, AND you get a tool out of it all.

I have deprimed live primers before... theres nothing to it just go slowly.

Wear safety glasses and hearing protection just incase one goes off.

If your really scared, pull the bullets, put the powder into a container and dump the primed cases into a bucket of water and let them soak.

 

[Trevor300wsm]

Re: Totally at a loss

When you were in the process of priming the cases did you check each one after you primed it by feeling of the bottom of the case? I know this isn't precise, but I've gotten into a habit of running my finger across the bottom of each case after I prime it just to "feel" if maybe it got set too deep or if maybe it was set a bit shallow. Again, this isn't precise, but you'll certainly notice after 50-75 cases if one gets set too deep or too shallow.

 

[CK_32]

Re: Totally at a loss

Yea post a few pics so we can see what they look like.. Post head on of the primers and the side view of primers..

So we can see if they were seated right or something else by visual.

 

[jason8251]

Re: Totally at a loss

I feel every primer after I seat it and I THOUGHT I had a feel for it maybe not. I'm guessing if I seated the primers to deep this may have caused my problems. I'm out of town this week I will post pics this weekend of the primers, thanks.

 

[rocketron]

Re: Totally at a loss

is it possible the headspace is to short on the new cases and the fireing pin is just pushing the case foreward with out a good strike on the primer?

Ron

 

[Nefariousd]

Re: Totally at a loss

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rocketron</div><div class="ubbcode-body">is it possible the headspace is to short on the new cases and the fireing pin is just pushing the case foreward with out a good strike on the primer?

Ron </div></div>

Seen it before.

I've had this happen: turned out to be a loading error, the kid that works (should say worked, I was pissed and he was deemed untrustworthy) for me wasn't paying attention and the measure ran out of powder. The primers did go off but there was no powder, Pulled the bullets, bases were carbon-ed but the bullet went nowhere. Now the new kid goes back and weighs each loaded round to verify and I shake them and listen for powder before it goes in the weapon.

 

[Rock-N-Ruin]

Re: Totally at a loss

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nefariousd</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rocketron</div><div class="ubbcode-body">is it possible the headspace is to short on the new cases and the fireing pin is just pushing the case foreward with out a good strike on the primer?

Ron </div></div>

Seen it before.

I've had this happen: turned out to be a loading error, the kid that works (should say worked, I was pissed and he was deemed untrustworthy) for me wasn't paying attention and the measure ran out of powder. The primers did go off but there was no powder, Pulled the bullets, bases were carbon-ed but the bullet went nowhere. Now the new kid goes back and weighs each loaded round to verify and I shake them and listen for powder before it goes in the weapon. </div></div>

Wow, I think I'd just buy FGMM.. atleast I know it's gonna go off.. I can see payin a kid to do case prep however, if he knows what he's doin.. No one's priming, chargin or seatin but me..

 

[Nefariousd]

Re: Totally at a loss

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rock-N-Ruin</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Wow, I think I'd just buy FGMM.. atleast I know it's gonna go off.. I can see payin a kid to do case prep however, if he knows what he's doin.. No one's priming, chargin or seatin but me.. </div></div>

Suppose if they made it in the caliber I was using, might not be a bad plan.

Certain times of the year I have zero free time, it's hard enough to sneak off for an hour to shoot. The worst part is the kid was in Air Force ROTC at a local college and is out flying fighter planes as we type (you think I was taking a risk having him load, now he's armed with a very expensive aircraft and missiles, eek!)

The new kid is in the last semester of his masters in Safety Science, he's much more conscientious.

 

[jason8251]

Re: Totally at a loss

Well I got back from Fayette'nam tonight and I have been reading all of your suggestions throughout the week. I remembered that I got about half way through the Lapua cases when they quit working so I decided to count to see just how many fired.

Wait for it....

Exactly 50!!!! Same amount as one of my loading blocks, a coincedense, NEGATIVE.

Thank you for all your input fellas I really appreciate the help but unfortunately I'm a dumbass and didn't charge the cases on one whole loading block. Good thing I bought one of those Hornady pullers, got about 49 more bullets to pull.

So now my next question.

After I pull these bullets do I have to re-size the necks of the cases or can I just charge the cases and re-seat the bullets?

 

[boltstop]

Re: Totally at a loss

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jason8251</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well I got back from Fayette'nam tonight and I have been reading all of your suggestions throughout the week. I remembered that I got about half way through the Lapua cases when they quit working so I decided to count to see just how many fired.

Wait for it....

Exactly 50!!!! Same amount as one of my loading blocks, a coincedense, NEGATIVE.

Thank you for all your input fellas I really appreciate the help but unfortunately I'm a dumbass and didn't charge the cases on one whole loading block. Good thing I bought one of those Hornady pullers, got about 49 more bullets to pull.

So now my next question.

After I pull these bullets do I have to re-size the necks of the cases or can I just charge the cases and re-seat the bullets? </div></div>

Correct me if I am wrong here, fellas, but since he's pulling the bullets and the necks weren't popped out by gas pressure, he should not need to reduce the necks again.

I would suggest loading one and checking neck tension under the guidance of being unable to twist the bullet in the shell.

 

[rocketron]

Re: Totally at a loss

don't forget to change the primers on the one's you tryed to fire.......or you'll have problems agian.

i always look in the cases for powder before seating bullets because i missed a row a few times.....but a hole block......LOL

Ron

 

[jason8251]

Re: Totally at a loss

Well at least I'm consistant!

 

[Muttt]

Re: Totally at a loss

LOL ..... that's so funny. We all end up doing some stupid shit like that eventually ..... LOL. Glad you worked it out. And, you didn't actually waste anything (only a few primers).

They'll be fine. Pull the bullets, charge with powder and reseat the bullet. You shouldn't have any problems at all. The necks should be plenty tight.

 

[fish30114]

Re: Totally at a loss

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shot In The Dark</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You would know it if the primer went off. It would have send the bullet into the barrel a ways and it make s a very loud bang. Prime a piece of brass and try it, you'll be shocked how loud it is. </div></div>

First off let me say that 'Shot In The Dark' may have very good hearing or wear different hearing protection than me and many others. He may have heard those primers detonate. So no intended nock on your specific experience or post 'Shot in the dark'

Having said that, NEVER accept a blanket statement without verification in reloading, especially from the internet. I have been beside, a bench or two away, or behind the trigger, on around somewhere close to 50 primers popping on an uncharged case, including several 6ppc's with very little neck tension on the loaded rounds. No one ever heard any of the primers fire, and the bullet went nowhere measurable in any way on any of those rounds. It is not uncommon, and IMO forums like this can/should help those with the balls to ask for help,-, even if it ends up being a simple oversight--which can be big in reloading--I would say you probably learned a few things, including that you probably wear good hearing protection.


Also, it's good to have a scale with enough capacity to weigh your loaded rounds.....

Good luck, and Kudo's for owning up to your miss.

 

[jason8251]

Re: Totally at a loss

Hey, if you csn't admit your mistakes you'll never learn from others that have made similar mistakes. I've seen too many "Senior Guys" at work not ask for help and really tear shit up. Once again thanks for all the help and suggestions fellas.