Trade in bolt gun for a semi auto

[Mormegil87]

I've posted this on another forum that shall not be named. I've decided to post here knowing that I should get a more informative response.

Here's the situation. I have a Remington 700P .308 in an AICS with an assortment of accessories, I also have on it's way a custom Stiller Tac .300. I'm not sure I need two long range bolt guns so I stopped at my local shop to check out their inventory and came across an M1A Loaded for a very reasonable price ($1500ish). So I go to thinking that maybe I should trade in the 700P for the M1A and use the M1a for intermediate ranged steel/paper shooting and hunting while using the Tac 300 for 500+ precision shooting.

Are the M1A's worth it? Will accuracy drop off significantly from my 700p to the M1A? Is having a semi auto .308 that much more beneficial in comparison to a bolt .308? Normally I'm not at such a loss when it comes to the guns I want in my safe but I'm at a loss on this one. Advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

If you're going to go to a semi auto platform stick the the AR's. They are much more accurate and reliable than the M1A's. For a reasonably price rifle Id be looking at the LMT MWS.

 

[diggler1833]

I will second that typically an AR is going to be more accurate and reliable than an M1A. I do however prefer a nice-looking M1A, but looks and performance are two seperate things.

If you don't have a semi-auto .308, then I'd suggest that now would be a good time to get one and stock up on ammo.

Can't help you on if an M1A is "worth it", that is a personal choice. My bet though is that you will see better accuracy out of your 700P.

 

[usmc1488]

Ill give mt .02. ALOT of people use forum and wiki based opinions on the M1a. Here is my fact based answer. The facts come from using the M14 in Iraq and through personal ownership of a LRB and Jamer River Armory civilian M14s.

The M14 in Iraq was cleaned once a month, and that consisted of a wet patch and bore snake. The MK10 (now M110) required daily maint. for the same use. Both rifles achieved the same accuracy.

There is not a reliability issue with the M14 platform, Im not sure where this has come from. It is alot easier to maintain than a stoner gas system AR and more accurate than a gas piston AR when set up correctly. Now if you go to your local gun store and buy a new SAI M1a you might have a few issues, SAI isnt the best with QC but they have a great no questions answered life time warranty. Id look at LRB or JRA reay built actions and marry them to a SAGE. But there is not a reliability issue in its design, ,its a freakin evolution of the bullet proof M1!

In a wood stock not bedded you will be lucky to achieve 2 MOA. Bedded you will have a 1 MOA weapon if other accuracy mods have been made. The easiest route to go for accuracy is the EBR chassis. Bone stock USGI M14s are sub MOA shooters all day. Add a match grade barrel and you will be at .75 easy. Add a nice trigger and fliers will be a thing of the past.

Before i placed my LRB all USGI action into a EBR chassis I was at 1 MOA in a bedded wood stock. The EBR chassis has made it an all day .75-.8 MOA rifle good luck!

 

[Mormegil87]

Ill give mt .02. ALOT of people use forum and wiki based opinions on the M1a. Here is my fact based answer. The facts come from using the M14 in Iraq and through personal ownership of a LRB and Jamer River Armory civilian M14s.

The M14 in Iraq was cleaned once a month, and that consisted of a wet patch and bore snake. The MK10 (now M110) required daily maint. for the same use. Both rifles achieved the same accuracy.

There is not a reliability issue with the M14 platform, Im not sure where this has come from. It is alot easier to maintain than a stoner gas system AR and more accurate than a gas piston AR when set up correctly. Now if you go to your local gun store and buy a new SAI M1a you might have a few issues, SAI isnt the best with QC but they have a great no questions answered life time warranty. Id look at LRB or JRA reay built actions and marry them to a SAGE. But there is not a reliability issue in its design, ,its a freakin evolution of the bullet proof M1!

In a wood stock not bedded you will be lucky to achieve 2 MOA. Bedded you will have a 1 MOA weapon if other accuracy mods have been made. The easiest route to go for accuracy is the EBR chassis. Bone stock USGI M14s are sub MOA shooters all day. Add a match grade barrel and you will be at .75 easy. Add a nice trigger and fliers will be a thing of the past.

Before i placed my LRB all USGI action into a EBR chassis I was at 1 MOA in a bedded wood stock. The EBR chassis has made it an all day .75-.8 MOA rifle good luck!

Thanks for sharing your experience and insight. Very helpful.

 

[usmc1488]

Thanks for sharing your experience and insight. Very helpful.

My pleasure, I love the M14 and its civilian clones. The M1A you saw at your local gun shop is a little over priced. Look at James River Armory, Fulton Armory, or LRB. They all produce high quality rifles and actions. Again if you want accuracy close to a bolt gun it can be done with the M14 series, best and easiest bet is to purchase a barreled action and place it into a Sage EBR chassis. The Army and my awesome Corps saw a sharp increase in accuracy with the chassis. Plus it just flat out looks bad!

Nothing beats a m14 in a wood stock for pure sex apeal, and you can get them to be ALL day 1 1/2 MOA but that will be with a bedded stock, proper fitted hand guard, and a nice trigger. My other m14 is set up just like I explained, its an easy all day 1 1/2 rifle.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Or you can buy a LMT MWS that out of the box will shoot 1/2-3/4moa with match ammo, sometimes better. A precision rifle that can't hold MOA is a tomato stake.

 

[BCP]

Thanks for sharing your experience and insight. Very helpful.

I have a loaded M1A just like you saw in that shop, it's been bedded and the gas system unitized too. Shooting 4-5rd groups the extreme spread is usually 1.5-1.7MOA with average about 1.3. That was for a contest on m14forum, not many people got near MOA and the ones that did were all in heavy walnut stocks or mcmillans with very heavy profile barrels from mechanical rests or bags. No Sage EBR stocks.

Also the rifle has some quirks. Bipod and scope mounting for one. Yes, you can just stick a bipod on pretty easily but it will change POI a lot. Even though mine is bedded and the bipod is mounted to a pic rail that is glassed into the stock it still shifts POI up a bit. That, as well as the scope mounts putting the optics so high in the air that it's hard/impossible to get a good cheekweld make it a PITA. You can't get to the chamber like with an AR you need to buy or make special one-off tools to do it. Piston needs to be cleaned every so often and the action will occasionally need to be removed from the stock. When you put it all back together it takes anywhere from 5-20rds to settle in and begin shooting properly. Also if it's bedded and you take it apart 3-4 times or you shoot say 700-800 rounds the bedding will begin to wear out or go altogether. Especially Acraglass Gel which is what I used.

Comparing it to say an ARmalite AR10 like this:

Armalite AR10 308WIN 18" Stainless 10A4-RSR : Semi Auto Rifles at GunBroker.com

You can buy something like that and get the same or better accuracy that I get with my M1A right out of the box, scope + bipod is a breeze and it will stay accurate until the barrel goes.

Only reason I went M1A was because of CA laws. If frozen tundra means a free state then you really ought to go AR pattern.

 

[BCP]

Or you can buy a LMT MWS that out of the box will shoot 1/2-3/4moa with match ammo, sometimes better. A precision rifle that can't hold MOA is a tomato stake.

Yeah I don't consider my M1A to be precise at all. Frankly past 300-400 it gets frustrating. Silhouettes and 12" steel gong are fine if the wind cooperates but smaller targets forget about it.

 

[USACS]

I have a loaded M1A just like you saw in that shop, it's been bedded and the gas system unitized too. Shooting 4-5rd groups the extreme spread is usually 1.5-1.7MOA with average about 1.3. That was for a contest on m14forum, not many people got near MOA and the ones that did were all in heavy walnut stocks or mcmillans with very heavy profile barrels from mechanical rests or bags. No Sage EBR stocks.
......

My experience with my former Springfield M1A Loaded mimicked BCP's. My rifle wasn't bedded, but it was mounted in a JAE-100 stock with barrel tensioner. On a cool bore I could get just over 1moa, but once the barrel heated up, 1.5moa was the best I could muster with match ammo.

My experience with the M1A is that it's Exponential Input for Incremental Output. You will spend hundreds to thousands chasing accuracy with an M1A. In contrast, you can get a .308 AR and change a barrel out for under $400,, and get 0.5moa accuracy. That is just with building uppers or swapping barrel systems. Many ARs are sub-MOA right out of the box. If you are gravitating towards piston, take a look at the Sig 716 thread and see the groups people are posting. As much as I hate DPMS, they are making a decent LR308 G2 platform that is plenty accurate and very affordable.

I have nothing against the M1A as a classic MBR, but if you are looking for a modern precision rifle, buy a MODERN precision rifle.

 

[TheGerman]

The answer to every semi auto question is a KAC SR25.

BTW, your name should be Roter Jager, not Rote Jager. The r at the end stipulates the, 'the'.

 

[Mormegil87]

The answer to every semi auto question is a KAC SR25.

BTW, your name should be Roter Jager, not Rote Jager. The r at the end stipulates the, 'the'.

Thanks for the heads up, guess the GF was wrong in her German translation of The Red Hunter.

But in regards to the task at hand. I've decided to just keep my bolt gun for the time being. There is something I truly enjoy about being behind a bolt gun in comparison to my semi auto's.

 

[samnev]

Thanks for the heads up, guess the GF was wrong in her German translation of The Red Hunter.

But in regards to the task at hand. I've decided to just keep my bolt gun for the time being. There is something I truly enjoy about being behind a bolt gun in comparison to my semi auto's.

Smart move, the M1A will not shoot as well as your 700P. I have a Devine, TX M1A that i've had fro 40 years with less than 1000 rounds thru it. I used it only for match shooting in the past. On a good day it's 1 moa usually slightly larger groups. I'd keep the bolt rifle and save for the semi AR of your choice later on.

 

[henschman]

In my experience, indeed .308 ARs are easier to make accurate than M1As... with the AR it's simply a matter of installing a FF HG and maybe a better trigger, whereas with the M1A it is a lot more involved and they end up weighing a lot more. However, to say the AR is more reliable is crazy talk. Maybe some of the high end ones like Larue, GAP, KAC, etc. can match or exceed M1A reliability, but those are not at all representative of the whole breed. I am fighting reliability issues in two separate .308 ARs right now (a DPMS and a S&W), whereas my M-14 variants rarely if ever missed a beat. I know a lot of other M1A shooters, and reliability is definitely not a common complaint with them. I know a lot of .308 AR owners, and with them it is.

 

[The Gump]

I would sell the 700P and buy a fuck ton of reloading components or shooting gear.

I've got a 16" .308/24" .260 LMT. I like it but chasing brass gets old. Shooting 3 Gun with it is fun. It has it's pros and con's in long range matches. I'm on the fence with what to do with the .260 barrel extension, gas block, and tube once I burn the barrel up. Maybe a 6 Creed but not a long .308. Maybe sell them off.

I prefer a bolt to a semi for long range shooting which to me is past 300 yards or so.