Figured I’d get some opinions here. I have a Bergara B14 Ridge chambered in 7mm-08, bought for the purpose of being a shorter range deer/hog gun; as well as general truck gun. Intended mostly for 300 yard and in shots with factory ammunition, not interested in loading for a beat around farm rifle. Loading for my much more expensive precision rifles takes up enough of my time. Problem I’m having is that this rifle sprays 3 or 4moa groups with multiple different factory loads. Tried bedding it into a different stock, of course verified all action screws, base, ring screws were torqued to spec, and also verified no abnormal stock contact. Using a Nightforce NX8 scope that’s verified reliable on other rifles. Barrel cleaning does no good, copper fouling isn’t too bad. Attempted to call Bergara on their sub-moa guarantee, and was told that caliber is verified with a 120gr Nosler ballistic tip. Haven’t bothered sending it to them, as that kills the purpose of why I bought this rifle. I’d prefer to shoot either Berger, ELD-M, or even Accubonds in the 140gr range, at a moderate velocity. I’m sure the BT is a decent bullet but I have no interest in them for my use. However, I like this rifle’s action. Seems pretty well built, solid lockup without much play in the bolt, runs slick. So after that long background, here’s my decision. Should I trade the gun off for another brand in this caliber, or keep the action and have it rebarreled? Wanted to see if there is a consensus among other experienced shooters. Thanks for reading.
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Trade or Rebarrel?
- Thread starter JA1989
- Start date
so trade a shit shooting gun to someone?
send it back and make them fix it
or get a tikka 7-08 that will shoot from the start for roughly the cost of a new barrel
send it back and make them fix it
or get a tikka 7-08 that will shoot from the start for roughly the cost of a new barrel
What does it do with the 120s? If it doesn't group with that then send it back for them to fix it.
Accuracy testing This is their link for accuracy reqs, I don't like that it is so selective with loads, but if it does group with the 120s then you may be out of luck and time.
Edit to add:
You could sell it with full disclosure on what loads it likes, I've done that with rifles before and included target pics for the buyer. If you really like the action and don't mind the wait and cost of the barrel, get one spun up. If you can do with another action, make the switch.
Accuracy testing This is their link for accuracy reqs, I don't like that it is so selective with loads, but if it does group with the 120s then you may be out of luck and time.
Edit to add:
You could sell it with full disclosure on what loads it likes, I've done that with rifles before and included target pics for the buyer. If you really like the action and don't mind the wait and cost of the barrel, get one spun up. If you can do with another action, make the switch.
If you like the action, rebarrel it. I’ve had my guy spin a barrel on a bergara action and it hammered better than the factory barrel, and my factory barrel was easily 1/2 moa on its own. I can point you in his direction if you want.
You have to try the ammo they suggest in the original configuration. My guess is it'll still group poorly. Then you can go through the process of having Bergara repair or replace.
Confirm its an issue with the gun and ship it back to Bergera. Throwing money at a factory lemon is never a winning proposition.
By time you spend money fixing it, you could have just started or finished a custom build. Rifle new is what 1k if Im seeing the right model. Why dump more money in it when thats a good down payment on a custom or different rifle. Don't burn money fixing Bergera’s fuck up.
Th ing to do is get if fixed by Bergera and sell it/wash your hands of it.
By time you spend money fixing it, you could have just started or finished a custom build. Rifle new is what 1k if Im seeing the right model. Why dump more money in it when thats a good down payment on a custom or different rifle. Don't burn money fixing Bergera’s fuck up.
Th ing to do is get if fixed by Bergera and sell it/wash your hands of it.
OP - I’ve been in a very similar position as you. I couldn’t agree more with TurdFerguson and is the path I’m going down now too. Confirm issues and let Bergara help you (my total turnaround time was 3 weeks when shipping to them and receiving my rifle back). If it’s not satisfactorily resolved then move on from it.
$1000 bergara
$450 barrel nut barrel
$75 worth of tools
Total = $1525
$900 origin action
$450 barrel nut barrel
$360 KRG stock
$150 trigger
$75 worth of tools
Total = $1935
Yes the semi custom is $410 more … but I think the value proposition the semi custom brings more than warrants the extra $ compared to the investment into the bergara.
$1000 bergara
$450 barrel nut barrel
$75 worth of tools
Total = $1525
$900 origin action
$450 barrel nut barrel
$360 KRG stock
$150 trigger
$75 worth of tools
Total = $1935
Yes the semi custom is $410 more … but I think the value proposition the semi custom brings more than warrants the extra $ compared to the investment into the bergara.
No offense but since you reload I would get a set of dies and 100 bullets.
Do a simple ladder test.
That will tell you all you need to know moving forward.
Edit: Here is an example of factory ammo vs hand loaded.
Savage 110BA 338 Lapua Magnum
Lapua factory 250gr ammunition vs hand loaded Hornady 285gr ELD-M with H1000.
You wouldn’t think that it was the same rifle shooting these groups.
Do a simple ladder test.
That will tell you all you need to know moving forward.
Edit: Here is an example of factory ammo vs hand loaded.
Savage 110BA 338 Lapua Magnum
Lapua factory 250gr ammunition vs hand loaded Hornady 285gr ELD-M with H1000.
You wouldn’t think that it was the same rifle shooting these groups.
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Why this isn't on the way to bergara to fix it is beyond me. No rifle that is supposed to be sub moa with 120s is going to suddenly open up to 4 moa with 140s. I could believe an inch and a half spread, as some barrels like different bullets, but modern barrel manufacturing pretty much even crap savage barrels made on Friday should get you under 2 moa
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Quoting to emphasize
It's a mass produced gun, manufacturing & QC are never great. Bergara knows that & needs to fix it. I'd call Bergara back to let them know you've asked online and repeat the points quoted above.
If Bergara won't budge you can get that Nosler ammo & prove a point... but that Bergara would make you jump through hoops to demonstrate a flaw is a little ridiculous.
2 questions: you're the only owner? have you bore scoped it?
Going through this right now w/ a shot-out M700.
The price of an Origin makes it nonsensical to spend the money having a 700 trued & add a bolt knob and a bolt stop.
It will cost you $30 to try out the ammo they certify. Try that, you may have a way easier time then with getting them to take it back to look at the barrel.
Sorry it’s taken so long for me to reply to everyone. I’m the only owner, purchased it new. My issue with trying their ammo is that I’ve had issue even finding it in stock. I am tempted to send this gun back just to see what results they have. Only reason I hesitate is that I know of another very experienced smith who had this issue, and Bergara never really fixed his issue, so I’m tempted to just fix it myself. However I certainly understand the hesitation to throw money at a bad rifle. I did call Bergara and ask if they would be willing to allow me to purchase a box of their test loads and shoot it myself, but they would not do that. I just want to either make the gun shoot sub moa for medium range shooting, or at least get it shooting well enough to trade it off in good conscience. Either way, I’ll never buy another of their rifles.
It would be really weird to be able to see a problem on a new gun… but 4 MOA is kind of weird too.
I didn’t see anything about what ammo you’ve tested… if you only have tried bullets w/ secant ogives, I’d go ahead and give a bullet with a tangent ogive a try. Since factory guns usually have long freebores and that’s what Bergara is recommending, they’re likely to work better.
The Nosler Ballistic Tip and Accubonds are both tangent ogives.
If I’m remembering all of them, I think I’ve tried these: Black Hills 140gr ELD-M, couple of standard lead tip hunting bullets (sierra gameking, etc.), Nosler 140gr accubonds, and maybe another one or two I don’t recall. If I’m not mistaken the accubond shot the best but I don’t believe it was under an inch. With the others, groups were anywhere from 1.5 to minute of softball. Of course I didn’t do all those at once; some were different days and I tried to keep the barrel fairly cool. This gun shoots buckshot patterns rather than groups.
I didn't read the whole thread but have you had a good competent smith go through it? A second set of eyes is not a bad idea either.
I would go with second option… its a 700 pattern action.. Seems like there is an over abundance of them now. No reason to even consider keeping a gun your sore with… Ship it back, have them go through it and sell it. Be upfront when you sell it. Im sure Bergera will get it somewhere close to right.
Ignore me if I'm typing out something you already know...
Secant ogive bullets are often crap out of a factory barrel, since they need short freebores and factory guns usually have crazy long freebores. The ELD-M and Tipped GameKings have secant ogives. The older lead tipped GameKing should have a tangent ogive, but I could be wrong.
All that being said, 4 MOA is excessive and can't be explained away by a secant ogive. A gun that shoots 0.5 MOA with something like a Sierra MatchKing (tangent ogive) but hates secant ogives will normally still keep those groups under 2 MOA in my experience
Also... a 1:9.5 twist seems a little fast for a .284 cal 120gr Nosler that Bergara is recommending, but should work great with 140's
eta: I'm talking about secant ogive bullets being loaded to feed from a mag
Secant ogive bullets are often crap out of a factory barrel, since they need short freebores and factory guns usually have crazy long freebores. The ELD-M and Tipped GameKings have secant ogives. The older lead tipped GameKing should have a tangent ogive, but I could be wrong.
All that being said, 4 MOA is excessive and can't be explained away by a secant ogive. A gun that shoots 0.5 MOA with something like a Sierra MatchKing (tangent ogive) but hates secant ogives will normally still keep those groups under 2 MOA in my experience
Also... a 1:9.5 twist seems a little fast for a .284 cal 120gr Nosler that Bergara is recommending, but should work great with 140's
eta: I'm talking about secant ogive bullets being loaded to feed from a mag
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I would definitely tend to agree with you. Mass produced rifles are typically designed with common factory hunting ammo in mind. As I understand it, this was Berger’s reasoning behind their classic hunter ogive design, meant to be more friendly to mag-length ammo in factory rifles. But as you said, no modern bolt action rifle has any excuse for spraying bullets like this one. I’m not expecting the quarter minute accuracy from this gun that I get with my hand loads and custom rifles. But it should shoot under an inch at a minimum, even for just a deer and hog rifle. Which is all I really intended this one for.
When you said no odd stock contact, you removed the stock and then re torqued it?
I had a similar problem with a REM 700 grouping 4” @ 25 yards (initial zero). The front screw was so tight that it did a pop release while the rear screw was barely finger tight. After re torquing so both screws were equal, it shot sub minute at 100 yards.
I had a similar problem with a REM 700 grouping 4” @ 25 yards (initial zero). The front screw was so tight that it did a pop release while the rear screw was barely finger tight. After re torquing so both screws were equal, it shot sub minute at 100 yards.
Yes. Removed the stock, ensured there was no contact of the trigger housing on inside of the stock inlet (had this issue cause flyers before), and re-torqued to spec. Also made sure the barrel was free floating all the way to the recoil lug. I also do a lot of my own stock work. I had another stock lying around, and I bedded the action to that stock. Still had the same issues. The problem lies somewhere in the barrel or chamber I had to guess.
You seem to be gung ho to dump a bunch of money in a piece of shit rifle when you shouldn't have to, so if that's what you want to do go for it. It's not the smart thing to do but at least you'll be feeding some gunsmiths family somewhere, so there is that.
Several people have given you good advice. There is absolutely no reason the gun should be shooting that poorly with any ammo, they're just using an excuse. If they want to bullshit you then bullshit them back, tell them you tried their ammo and it shoots the same if that's what you have to do to get them to warranty their POS. There is absolutely no reason that rifle shouldn't shoot 1.5moa at worst with off the shelf core lokt, power point, fusion, or anything other quality ammo.
Make them repair or replace it and THEN sell it off and buy something else.
But as a side note, I do sincerely appreciate everyone’s opinions and advice
Sometimes you've gotta be an asshole to get things done. It shouldn't be that way, but it is. Make them fix it. Go to your county court house and file a civil suit against them if you have to. They have a guarantee and the rifle doesn't meet it by 3-4X the guarantee.
I know what you mean, and those are fine calibers in their right. I already have a custom .260, so a creedmoor would be a bit redundant, and I also have a 308 at the house that I shoot. Both of those are heavier rifles and not guns that I’d want bouncing around in my farm truck. For whatever reason, I have an affinity for the 7mm bullet and it’s versatility. Just a preference I suppose. To me 7mm08 strikes a an excellent balance of recoil, ballistic coefficient and terminal damage. But to be honest, any of those three calibers will smoke deer and hogs just as dead as the other, all day long.
Full disclosure: I have absolutely zero direct or hearsay experience with Bergara service. With that said... based on my experience with Tikka / Beretta service, I think I'd pay a trusted local smith to check out the rifle before I'd go through the aggravation and expense of shipping it to Bergara and waiting for it to come back.
My reason: I had a Tikka T3X Varmint in .223 which had a 20% misfire rate with CCI 450 primers, slightly less with other non-magnum (softer) primers. Beretta's "service" was dog-slow and useless; if I had paid shipping I would have been even more p.o.'ed.
My $0.02. Good luck.
My reason: I had a Tikka T3X Varmint in .223 which had a 20% misfire rate with CCI 450 primers, slightly less with other non-magnum (softer) primers. Beretta's "service" was dog-slow and useless; if I had paid shipping I would have been even more p.o.'ed.
- The LGS from which I bought the rifle paid to ship it to Beretta.
- Beretta kept it over five weeks, sent it back, said it was fixed.
- Eighth round in the first post-repair outing was a misfire. There were others during the outing, at the same rate as before the "fix."
- Took rifle to a trusted local gunsmith. He diagnosed the issue in less than ten minutes: he noticed the primer indentations on both fired and misfired rounds were cylindrical, not rounded, on the bottom. The firing pin nose was flat - not radiused at all, which spread the force of the firing pin strike emulating a light strike on the primer.
- The smith radiused the firing pin nose in less than 15 minutes.
- I never had another misfire as long as I owned the rifle.
My $0.02. Good luck.
This is tangential, but I was wondering why we don't compare absolute accuracy in terms of area of impact, rather than group spread. (obviously linear spread is far simpler to measure and compare)
Illustrated with a target, a gun that shoots 1 MOA @ 1,000 yards will hit a 0.5 MOA target 25% of the time (86.1 in^2 versus 21.524 in^2).
In the present case, at 100 yards a 0.5" spread (Bergara's dubious guarantee) will impact an area of 0.196 in^2 and a 4" spread (@JA1989's Bergara) will impact an area of 12.566 in^2, or two orders of magnitude larger area. Yikes.
I really only mentioned those two cartridges due to the availability of ammunition, but I agree on their efficacy
Note: I calculated the numbers above, but here's a table with areas
If you could find the ammo bergara swears by I'd try it. But as someone with a 7-08 myself, I've not been able to find 120gr NBT's for over a year so good luck. And if you find some bullets let me know lol.
Take some of your fired cases to your Smith and have him check concentricity. I have a 700VLS in 243 (now a 243AI) that wasn't as bad as your rifle, but it just never would come together with handloads like I thought it should. Took the rifle and fired cases to my smith and there was nothing that really stood out about the rifle but the fired cases told the story. When he spun them on his concentricity guage they had about .003" runout. Chamber wasn't straight. We made the decision to set the barrel back and rechamber it. I was fortunate in that it cleaned up with an AI reamer that he already had. Shoots half minute now. Fireforming at that.
I'd get the cases checked and if it's pooched I'd send it back to bergara and make them get it right. A friend of mine just bought his second bergara, I believe the same model as yours but in 308 and it's a pretty good shooter. He also has a bergara ridge in 300winmag that will shoot in .3 territory with a handloaded 225 eld-m. It's right at or under moa with factory 180gr stuff.
Take some of your fired cases to your Smith and have him check concentricity. I have a 700VLS in 243 (now a 243AI) that wasn't as bad as your rifle, but it just never would come together with handloads like I thought it should. Took the rifle and fired cases to my smith and there was nothing that really stood out about the rifle but the fired cases told the story. When he spun them on his concentricity guage they had about .003" runout. Chamber wasn't straight. We made the decision to set the barrel back and rechamber it. I was fortunate in that it cleaned up with an AI reamer that he already had. Shoots half minute now. Fireforming at that.
I'd get the cases checked and if it's pooched I'd send it back to bergara and make them get it right. A friend of mine just bought his second bergara, I believe the same model as yours but in 308 and it's a pretty good shooter. He also has a bergara ridge in 300winmag that will shoot in .3 territory with a handloaded 225 eld-m. It's right at or under moa with factory 180gr stuff.
