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Fieldcraft Tradecraft Vs. Fieldcraft
- Thread starter CR2 Dude
- Start date
I think I'm picking up what you're laying down and I agree. I suppose back in my day fieldcraft was stuff like knowing how to set up your LBE properly, rig your poncho into a low profile shelter, and finding the box of MRE's first so you could rat fuck it for the Chili Mac before anyone else got to it.
There's a line from a spy movie with Al Pacino where he's talking to some CIA recruits and he's telling them all about these skills he'll teach them and finishes it off with "it's not witchcraft, it's tradecraft". I always liked that line.
The way I'm reading it fieldcraft can encompass the basic soldier skills that every combat arms soldier should know like:
- How to pack their ruck
- Set up their gear to have what's needed at hand
- Setting up an improvised shelter
- Make a fire
- Different uses for 550 cord
- Taking care of your feet
There are a ton more fieldcraft items that can be listed but they are things that get learned, sometimes the hard way, in order for a soldier to sustain themselves in the field and stay ready. That is in the context of a soldier but a good bit of that can dovetail into civilian life as well for hunting/camping/etc...and there are a plethora of YT videos on "fieldcraft".
If I'm interpreting what you're saying correctly, the tradecraft aspect comes down to things like:
- Using the issue mosquito net to set up urban hides
- Using the poncho to darken a background and/or help conceal movement in a hide
- Making a bird's nest for an optic
- Selecting a final firing position or hide for reconnaissance
- This wasn't so much a thing for my unit but I know more and more are training on how to take photos
- Making a sketch (if the camera breaks)
In the context of a grunt, the tent poles, mosquito net, poncho, and 500 cord are fieldcraft tools to help them survive in relative comfort whereas those same items to a sniper could be tradecraft tools to build a hide and execute the mission.
How much tradecraft then can apply to civilian aspects of long range shooting?
The way I'm reading it fieldcraft can encompass the basic soldier skills that every combat arms soldier should know like:
- How to pack their ruck
- Set up their gear to have what's needed at hand
- Setting up an improvised shelter
- Make a fire
- Different uses for 550 cord
- Taking care of your feet
There are a ton more fieldcraft items that can be listed but they are things that get learned, sometimes the hard way, in order for a soldier to sustain themselves in the field and stay ready. That is in the context of a soldier but a good bit of that can dovetail into civilian life as well for hunting/camping/etc...and there are a plethora of YT videos on "fieldcraft".
If I'm interpreting what you're saying correctly, the tradecraft aspect comes down to things like:
- Using the issue mosquito net to set up urban hides
- Using the poncho to darken a background and/or help conceal movement in a hide
- Making a bird's nest for an optic
- Selecting a final firing position or hide for reconnaissance
- This wasn't so much a thing for my unit but I know more and more are training on how to take photos
- Making a sketch (if the camera breaks)
In the context of a grunt, the tent poles, mosquito net, poncho, and 500 cord are fieldcraft tools to help them survive in relative comfort whereas those same items to a sniper could be tradecraft tools to build a hide and execute the mission.
How much tradecraft then can apply to civilian aspects of long range shooting?
Man it’s almost like you and I have had these conversations before. You’re right on.
I’d have to think how that applies to civilian long range shooting
I understand what you are saying. I think tradecraft too. My background is law enforcement not military. Now people do not think of police snipers doing a traditional stalk and rarely in the city would they.
You cannot always set up inside the perimeter. There is also the fact of being in a tactical uniform and carrying a long gun with a scope even in a case will get peoples attention. A LEO sniper needs to be inconspicuous and be able to find and get into a position without calling attention to themselves. Not to mention quickly finding a spot that is not in the direct view of the public. LEO snipers also use netting and other tools of the trade to keep themselves hidden from general view. Not to the extent of a military operator, but not quite like the movies either. One of your primary jobs is observation. Setting up on the opposing building high up with your barrel sticking over the edge of the building is not the best place and a severe angle will limit your ability to observe what’s going on in the residence or business.
The best hide I can think of was in the neighbors boat under the boat cover with one part of the cover propped up. Clear view down the driveway and through the big bay windows in front of the suspect house, hidden from view. We also had to find a way to get there without drawing the publics attention to ourselves and keeping the suspect unaware of our presence. We had an unmarked car drop us off two streets over and sneaked through back yards to get there.
If you cannot set up inside the perimeter this can be a type of stalk and definitely a learned skill.
You cannot always set up inside the perimeter. There is also the fact of being in a tactical uniform and carrying a long gun with a scope even in a case will get peoples attention. A LEO sniper needs to be inconspicuous and be able to find and get into a position without calling attention to themselves. Not to mention quickly finding a spot that is not in the direct view of the public. LEO snipers also use netting and other tools of the trade to keep themselves hidden from general view. Not to the extent of a military operator, but not quite like the movies either. One of your primary jobs is observation. Setting up on the opposing building high up with your barrel sticking over the edge of the building is not the best place and a severe angle will limit your ability to observe what’s going on in the residence or business.
The best hide I can think of was in the neighbors boat under the boat cover with one part of the cover propped up. Clear view down the driveway and through the big bay windows in front of the suspect house, hidden from view. We also had to find a way to get there without drawing the publics attention to ourselves and keeping the suspect unaware of our presence. We had an unmarked car drop us off two streets over and sneaked through back yards to get there.
If you cannot set up inside the perimeter this can be a type of stalk and definitely a learned skill.
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There are some folks practicing their "craft" in the real world within Ukraine as I type this. Best wishes to them in their hunt for Boris.
Good discussion, timely with what we are seeing in other countries.
sarcasmn spoke of being in a tactical uniform. Camo in MT during elk season is accepted. Not so much at the Huntington Beach pier in July. Be the Grey Man. Simply doing this buys you time, allows you to calm down and think.
sarcasmn spoke of being in a tactical uniform. Camo in MT during elk season is accepted. Not so much at the Huntington Beach pier in July. Be the Grey Man. Simply doing this buys you time, allows you to calm down and think.
I would agree with your assessment.
But to be clear the original topic started because someone asked me if as a Sniper instructor I was a a Marksmanship or Fieldcraft kind of guy.
I think many people, especially military snipers use the word fieldcraft wrong.
I just watched this video and there's a lot of good fieldcraft stuff in this video. It's knowledge that soldiers, snipers, backpackers, and hunters can use, if not have experienced themselves. I giggled when he talked about the draw monsters cause it's true.
Little things like avoiding puddles when you can, avoiding draw monsters, how to adjust your ruck, are fieldcraft skills that help you endure in a field environment.
This is another video that I watched today that kind of highlights what this discussion is all about. The title talks about the video being part of a fieldcraft series and discusses using 550 cord on the Harris bipod to snap them down quick.
Based on our discussion here, I think this is more of a tradecraft skill because this hack helps the sniper deploy a method of support faster when getting into a firing position. I admire the videos from Ridgeline Defense so this isn't a ding on them in anyway but I believe it's a great illustration to CR's point.
Getting back to my earlier question about crossover of tradecraft skills from the military to civilian side, I also think this could be one of them because we've seen numerous competition shooters and hunters use this technique.
Little things like avoiding puddles when you can, avoiding draw monsters, how to adjust your ruck, are fieldcraft skills that help you endure in a field environment.
This is another video that I watched today that kind of highlights what this discussion is all about. The title talks about the video being part of a fieldcraft series and discusses using 550 cord on the Harris bipod to snap them down quick.
Based on our discussion here, I think this is more of a tradecraft skill because this hack helps the sniper deploy a method of support faster when getting into a firing position. I admire the videos from Ridgeline Defense so this isn't a ding on them in anyway but I believe it's a great illustration to CR's point.
Getting back to my earlier question about crossover of tradecraft skills from the military to civilian side, I also think this could be one of them because we've seen numerous competition shooters and hunters use this technique.
Hello all, I read the comments and found them interesting. I remember having a conversation once with another NCO and we got on the topic of verbage and true meanings.
We spoke of the title special Operator or Operator and what it meant to diff people.
We also talked about the word fieldcraft vs ttp and so on.
At the end of the day we figured it all was a unit/team or group thing.
Meaning it all meant the same thing (with slight variations) depending what unit or team you happened to be with at the time.
We were able to pass the time and have a pleasant conversation
We spoke of the title special Operator or Operator and what it meant to diff people.
We also talked about the word fieldcraft vs ttp and so on.
At the end of the day we figured it all was a unit/team or group thing.
Meaning it all meant the same thing (with slight variations) depending what unit or team you happened to be with at the time.
We were able to pass the time and have a pleasant conversation
Call it fieldcraft or tradecraft, (I like tradecraft) I think of them basically the same.
Camping or navigation, shooting, camoflage and concealment, etc....all the normal things, but then maybe lockpicking, social engineering, digital security/hacking, climbing/rappelling, OR maybe something like flying a single engine aircraft, sailing, or driving a big rig. What about radio operation, driving at night with NVG's, medicinal plant identification and usage? You get the idea.
What I'm trying to say, if I'm saying anything at all, is that tradecraft is any skill needed to be successful at whatever your mission or goal is.
Guess I'll add this too, it's probably too much information for every hunter, marksman, sniper, etc to know. This is why it's important to operate within a team with each member specializing in various skills. Maybe? Just some thoughts. I dig the topic.
Camping or navigation, shooting, camoflage and concealment, etc....all the normal things, but then maybe lockpicking, social engineering, digital security/hacking, climbing/rappelling, OR maybe something like flying a single engine aircraft, sailing, or driving a big rig. What about radio operation, driving at night with NVG's, medicinal plant identification and usage? You get the idea.
What I'm trying to say, if I'm saying anything at all, is that tradecraft is any skill needed to be successful at whatever your mission or goal is.
Guess I'll add this too, it's probably too much information for every hunter, marksman, sniper, etc to know. This is why it's important to operate within a team with each member specializing in various skills. Maybe? Just some thoughts. I dig the topic.
I agree it is a "timely" topic. Tradecraft skills will be needed much sooner than most can imagine. Take your wish list of crafts and divide it into two categories by terrain 1) Urban and 2) Off grid environment.
For any number of reasons, people will be stuck in the Mega cities. Name a few resources they will need ?
The polar opposites will be in forest, swamps, deserts, etc. What resources will they need ?
What will both camps have in common as far as resources needed ?
I'll start the list with "Boots / Footwear".....
Nothing here is meant to advertise, criticize or subsidize any vendors. Interesting there is not many comments on fieldcraft. Good to know all you guy's are all squared away.
Lots of folks are just buying a package deal of seeds with the thought they can sustain themselves and their families by growing a garden...
Here is one example:
readywise.com
I moved onto my homestead 5 years ago. If I would have depended on this seed package deal, I'd have starved before harvesting any of the crop. On this site I have encourages people to get a 5 gallon bucket, some potting soil and a packet of seeds and get something growing. Put it on the balcony of your apartment, in your Mom's back yard, in a public gardening area..... anywhere where it will get some sunlight. Go water it and see if you can actually grow the simplest veggie or fruit.
It's a lot harder than all those fancy websites will make it out to be. Read some worldwide news... A food shortage is coming... It will last a long time... Longer than the shelves of your local grocery store can be stocked with food.....
Hungry people will act desperately.... Plan ahead.
Lots of folks are just buying a package deal of seeds with the thought they can sustain themselves and their families by growing a garden...
Here is one example:
Wise Food Storage Heirloom Seed Vault - 2 Bucket Bundle
Each Wise Food Storage Heirloom Seed Vault contains 39 different varieties of hand-selected non-hybrid, non-gmo, open-pollinated heirloom vegetable seeds. With up to a 10 year shelf life, these seeds will be the ultimate tool in your preparedness kit. All 39 varieties of seed have been...
readywise.com
I moved onto my homestead 5 years ago. If I would have depended on this seed package deal, I'd have starved before harvesting any of the crop. On this site I have encourages people to get a 5 gallon bucket, some potting soil and a packet of seeds and get something growing. Put it on the balcony of your apartment, in your Mom's back yard, in a public gardening area..... anywhere where it will get some sunlight. Go water it and see if you can actually grow the simplest veggie or fruit.
It's a lot harder than all those fancy websites will make it out to be. Read some worldwide news... A food shortage is coming... It will last a long time... Longer than the shelves of your local grocery store can be stocked with food.....
Hungry people will act desperately.... Plan ahead.
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The "Grey Man" continued..
A few days ago, early morning, I caught a glimpse of movement about 300 yards away along a railroad track. I was in camo and grabbed my bino's and used a large tree as partial concealment. Watched a man moving along slowly and appeared to be gathering natural berries, mushrooms, asparagus. As part of my security, I wanted to see if he was scanning for other people. He came up from the far side of the track and for a split second, looked my direction. I did not move but continued to watch him. My senses kicked in to pick up identifying characteristics. He was moving away down the tracks when he stopped, partially turned and stared directly at me. We sort of had the challenge to see who would move first. After 30 seconds he moved on away.... The spooky thing was I could not identify a single identifying characteristic of this individual. The bag for gathering was white canvas so that took my attention. His ball cap, jacket, jeans and footwear had no outstanding characteristic's.....
A few things I learned:
I need better bino's
I need better concealment.
Later that afternoon I set my trail camera 10' up on a utility pole to attempt to catch a photo if the gather returns.
Pay attention to those "Grey Men"
A few days ago, early morning, I caught a glimpse of movement about 300 yards away along a railroad track. I was in camo and grabbed my bino's and used a large tree as partial concealment. Watched a man moving along slowly and appeared to be gathering natural berries, mushrooms, asparagus. As part of my security, I wanted to see if he was scanning for other people. He came up from the far side of the track and for a split second, looked my direction. I did not move but continued to watch him. My senses kicked in to pick up identifying characteristics. He was moving away down the tracks when he stopped, partially turned and stared directly at me. We sort of had the challenge to see who would move first. After 30 seconds he moved on away.... The spooky thing was I could not identify a single identifying characteristic of this individual. The bag for gathering was white canvas so that took my attention. His ball cap, jacket, jeans and footwear had no outstanding characteristic's.....
A few things I learned:
I need better bino's
I need better concealment.
Later that afternoon I set my trail camera 10' up on a utility pole to attempt to catch a photo if the gather returns.
Pay attention to those "Grey Men"
Good short article with some insight to boots and pricing:
survivalblog.com
Wellco Military Boots. Altama boots -- their military boots.
Wellco Military Boots, by Pat Cascio. After basic training, the military is quite a bit more lax about what kind of footwear you can have,
survivalblog.com
I would think "Bladecraft" might be considered a huge part of Fieldcraft whether it's for slicing through stringy ground cover or knowing only carbon steel will spark your flint and on the flip side?...we've also entered the age of high tech gadgetry where compact solar systems might now be considered part of fieldcraft to keep your compact gizmo's charged unless 100% radio silence is your thing....all I got to add for consideration for now except?...water purification where I find Sawyer products pretty cool for lightweight/compact filtration.
I have been out sawing logs and splitting firewood and re-thinking that situation. The safest setup would be to have a trained over watch in an elevated tower.
Question: Who would make the best over watch ?
I’m currently going through this right now. I’m going on an elk hunt next month with my dad and brother. I’m an active duty Marine so Fieldcraft has been ingrained into me for years. I consider myself very proficient. My dad and brother not so much. I’ve taught them and had professional training in the tradecraft of long range shooting and it is a fairly easy thing to teach. Once somebody understands the concept of it, it seems to come fairly easily. Probably the hardest aspect (I’m also not that great at it) is reading the wind.
Onto Fieldcraft however, it’s very hard to get somebody to learn. I find that they constantly buy bulky stuff that they won’t get the benefit of. Then they forget basic things. They are terrible at packing a ruck, don’t practice rucking, etc. I’m driving this weekend 8 hrs to try and teach them the ins and outs of basic Fieldcraft. We’ll see how it goes…
Onto Fieldcraft however, it’s very hard to get somebody to learn. I find that they constantly buy bulky stuff that they won’t get the benefit of. Then they forget basic things. They are terrible at packing a ruck, don’t practice rucking, etc. I’m driving this weekend 8 hrs to try and teach them the ins and outs of basic Fieldcraft. We’ll see how it goes…
Good for you...
"Wind" is a challenge for many. Some people can think / visualize in 3 dimension while other's can not. I learned that in the piping industry where our prints are "isometric"... Wind visualization is very similar, especially in the valley's and canyons in the West. Seldom is wind in a flat plane, unless you are in the plains.
I agree with you! How to get from point A to point B (movement techniques), set up (hide sight), ORP, all those little things besides camouflage and concealment, and conduct operations from your site. Observing, range card, pictures/video (We did this a lot in Iraq and Afghanistan.) Tradecraft encompasses everything to be successful in your mission and coming home.
As you "move about" from point A to point B you will occasionally run across a formidable opponent who has prepared for other's to enter his OA... That challenge will make you a better competitor. Every environment will be different. As you age, your own physical challenges, family responsibilities, budget, etc will change. Simply adapting to your own changes will add to your chance of survival.
Just something to ponder.
Teaching a life saving field craft.
www.kpax.com
Columbia Falls center teaching fire-starting skills for Montana winters
Ravenwood Outdoor Learning Center recently held a class to teach families how to create fire in the wet winter woods.
www.kpax.com
Before you can get to practice your fieldcraft... You must get to the field. For you that do not "reside in the field", a mode of transportation will come into play. Doubtful many could ruck from the center of a mega city to the field on foot.
Today's vehicles are now more plastic and circuit boards than steel.
Do you have a "dependable" vehicle that will get you to the field ?
Can you cobble together a disabled vehicle to get you to Point B ?
Today's vehicles are now more plastic and circuit boards than steel.
Do you have a "dependable" vehicle that will get you to the field ?
Can you cobble together a disabled vehicle to get you to Point B ?
Motivating article to improve your fieldcraft:
Amazon jungle: Man survives 31 days by eating worms
The 30-year-old man got lost while hunting with friends in the Amazon in northern Bolivia.
www.bbc.com
Tradecraft is the broad term used to reference skills used by various agents to conduct intel/counterintel ops. Think dead drops, how to turn people to give you info etc. A good example of counterintel is OBL and the way he lived his life to avoid being found.
The title of this thread threw me before I read more since this was the definition of tradecraft I have in my head.
When things go bad, the skills you listed will be of value to some and a danger to other's... Best know some of them.
It all melds together.
4 months have past since the previous post.
I had this thought while out mowing.... What did you do to improve your fieldcraft / tradecraft?
Looking back at my life, there were times (for many reasons) I put off going take a class because I was waiting on someone else to go with me. That was a mistake on my part.
Something for some of you to ponder. In the middle of a cold, rainy winter night there is some kind of disturbance in your front yard or in the quiet cul-de-sac you live on.
Are you going to wait on someone to go with you to check it out? When that disturbance kicks in your front door, what are you going to do ?
As society continues to disinterested you will be faced with more challenges. Nothing is going to get easier. Response to a 911 call will get longer and longer.
Stop waiting for someone to go with you to an Advanced Wilderness Medical Class, a "How to run a battle rifle" class, an auto repair class, a Dutch Oven cooking class, a defensive pistol class, a Blacksmith class, a Master Gardner class.....
No one will be coming to save your ass or your family.
I had this thought while out mowing.... What did you do to improve your fieldcraft / tradecraft?
Looking back at my life, there were times (for many reasons) I put off going take a class because I was waiting on someone else to go with me. That was a mistake on my part.
Something for some of you to ponder. In the middle of a cold, rainy winter night there is some kind of disturbance in your front yard or in the quiet cul-de-sac you live on.
Are you going to wait on someone to go with you to check it out? When that disturbance kicks in your front door, what are you going to do ?
As society continues to disinterested you will be faced with more challenges. Nothing is going to get easier. Response to a 911 call will get longer and longer.
Stop waiting for someone to go with you to an Advanced Wilderness Medical Class, a "How to run a battle rifle" class, an auto repair class, a Dutch Oven cooking class, a defensive pistol class, a Blacksmith class, a Master Gardner class.....
No one will be coming to save your ass or your family.
What would your thoughts be if one morning you woke up, had a cup of coffee, watched the deer and the realization came to mind that your homestead was located in "The Valley of the Shadow of Death".
Good thing or bad thing ?
Good thing or bad thing ?
Been a lot of "developments" over the past 4 months. Much survival talk, all around.
A lot of folks are giving into the reality of the situation and asking "What should I do" ?
The first item is going to be to "Wrap your head" around things as they are today and where they are heading.
Remaining calm is an understatement.
America could wake up to a different world, tomorrow morning.
A lot of folks are giving into the reality of the situation and asking "What should I do" ?
The first item is going to be to "Wrap your head" around things as they are today and where they are heading.
Remaining calm is an understatement.
America could wake up to a different world, tomorrow morning.
Time to review your backup system for anything you plan to depend on when the Internet becomes unstable or gets switched off.
How will you pay your house note, electric bill or prescription med bill ?
Attached is a related article showing how venerable the situation is, even to billion dollar companies.
What will the government and giant corporations do ? To save themselves they will simply shut down their websites.
Something to think about... May be the time to get 1 month ahead on some of those bills, just to have some cushion.
______________________
In a hearing before the Senate Committee on Finance, Witty said the decision to pay the $22 million ransom was entirely his. “This was one of the hardest decisions I’ve ever had to make,” he said. UnitedHealth admitted last month that it had paid a ransom to the hackers who breached the Change Healthcare system — which is owned by UnitedHealth — but didn’t disclose the sum. In March, the company attributed the breach to BlackCat, the same entity responsible for the MGM casino hack in Las Vegas. That same month, Wired reported that BlackCat, which also goes by ALPHV, received a $22 million transaction on Bitcoin on March 1st.
/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/23318433/akrales_220309_4977_0182.jpg)
www.theverge.com
How will you pay your house note, electric bill or prescription med bill ?
Attached is a related article showing how venerable the situation is, even to billion dollar companies.
What will the government and giant corporations do ? To save themselves they will simply shut down their websites.
Something to think about... May be the time to get 1 month ahead on some of those bills, just to have some cushion.
______________________
UnitedHealth CEO admits it paid $22 million ransom to BlackCat
In a hearing before the Senate Committee on Finance, Witty said the decision to pay the $22 million ransom was entirely his. “This was one of the hardest decisions I’ve ever had to make,” he said. UnitedHealth admitted last month that it had paid a ransom to the hackers who breached the Change Healthcare system — which is owned by UnitedHealth — but didn’t disclose the sum. In March, the company attributed the breach to BlackCat, the same entity responsible for the MGM casino hack in Las Vegas. That same month, Wired reported that BlackCat, which also goes by ALPHV, received a $22 million transaction on Bitcoin on March 1st.
UnitedHealth CEO admits it paid $22 million ransom to BlackCat
The system that was breached “did not have multifactor authentication.”
www.theverge.com
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