Trigger pull drills

[Gruffskin]

Do any of you have some trigger pull drills to ensure a straight back pull? I read about froggy over on accurate shooter boards: He practices dry-firing in the dark but I wanted to see if there were some other drills to hone this skill.

Also,
I would like to know how to read my misses to diagnose any technique problems.

I know when the trigger is brought back to one side or the other that the bullet tends to impact the opposite of the side in which you pulled the trigger:
Straight back: center hit
Left: right flyer
Right: Left flyer

Any help would be great.

Gruff

 

[RampedRaptor]

Re: Trigger pull drills

Try to balance a quarter on the end of your barrel.

Get into your shooting postion
Do NOT load a live round
Have a buddy place the quarter on the end of the barrel
Pull trigger as you normally would. Dry fire or dummy round

Did the quarter fall off the barrel???

 

[Gruffskin]

Re: Trigger pull drills

thank you sir. Sounds like a start.

 

[RampedRaptor]

Re: Trigger pull drills

your welcome...

Its not only trigger pull but also reflects follow through.

When learning to shoot "accuratly" I gave trigger pull the least thought because I thought I was pulling the trigger how I had read you were suppose to.

Boy was I wrong....

Learning to pull the trigger correctly has been the single biggest improvement to my shooting skill.

Im sure more will chime in with there drills

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Trigger pull drills

The best trigger control practice is in dry firing, going one step further, dry fire off hand (standing).

Work on smoothly pulling the trigger as the wobble passes through the target, stopping (but holding what you have) as the front sight passes off the target, re-squeezing as your wobble passes back through the target, keep doing this until it breaks.

For dryfiring a pistol/revolver, I really like laser sights, you get instant feed back.

When I was working with my grand son, I tapped a toy laser (the kind used to harass cats) to the barrel so I could better see what was happening as he pulled the trigger as he dry fired.

The laser beats the heck out of bending over to pick up the coin. Besides all that bending over isn't good for a steady hold.

 

[Gruffskin]

Re: Trigger pull drills

Thank you. Have got a bore sight laser that should work great for this purpose. I always thought I was a decent shot, but with the new more accurate rifles and ammo I have I am seeing my deficiencies more clearly. Used to be satisfied with 1moa shooting but now have set my goals a little higher.

Thanks
Gruff

 

[Cserv]

Re: Trigger pull drills

I learned over the weekend that trigger squeeze is bullshit, at least with a pistol inside 25yds. If your grip and stance are good, you can have someone else slam your trigger with a screwdriver and still hit your target. Would not believe it if I hadn't seen it with my own two eyes. Let the flaming begin, but I watchef two shots at 10 impact withi 1" of each other with the pistol being fire harshly with a big screwdriver. Now I know this doesn't apply to precision rifle shooting, but you can bang the shit out of a pistol and still be effective if your grip and stance are solid.
Eric

 

[jpspeeddemon]

Re: Trigger pull drills

for pistols, you build the grip first.
For precision rifle shooting, you build your hand position from the trigger back. The goal is to achieve a 90 degree angle on your trigger finger. That way you can only come straight back in the trigger. See video link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_1wG7iANNI&feature=g-all-u

 

[Brain]

Re: Trigger pull drills

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The best trigger control practice is in dry firing, going one step further, dry fire off hand (standing).

</div></div>

And knowing where the sight/reticle is when the trigger breaks during dry firing improves shot calling at the same time as trigger control.

 

[Cserv]

Re: Trigger pull drills

JP,
Unless your finger comes unhinged and slides back along the first phalange(sp), yoyr trigger pull will never be absolutely straight back. Your finger joints are hinged, so movement is in an arc. Our goal is to complete the firing task while minimizing the effect of the rearward arc on the trigger pull, so the rifle and sight picture are not disturbed. Anatomy jusy does not allow a true straigh back trigger pull, using only your fingers.

Eric

 

[Mister Ouchie]

Re: Trigger pull drills

If you involve two finger joints I think it's entirely possible to have a straight trigger pull.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Trigger pull drills

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> trigger squeeze is bullshit, at least with a pistol inside 25yds</div></div>

That's a crock of horse pucky.

trigger control is more critical on a pistol/revolver mainly do to the shorter sight radius. Especialy in International Pistol Shooting.

Change the word "sqeeze" to "smooth", or pulling the trigger without disturbing sight alignment.

If you fire two shots out of a pistol that are touching at 25 yards it means that you are consistant. Depending on the group in relation to sight alignment you constantly "jirk" the trigger or you smoothly engage the trigger.

There is no law that says the trigger can not be smoothly squeezed fast. Look at rapid fire rifle shooting. You don't, as in standing slow fire, slowly squeeze the trigger, but you smoothly squeeze the trigger. Same with rapid fire pistol.

I don't believe its possible to jirk the trigger without disturbing your grip, which disturbs sight alignment there by disturbing the impact on the target.

If you jirk consistantly you may get a couple shoots close, but nothing like you would do with proper grip, sight alignment and "smooth" trigger pull.

 

[jpspeeddemon]

Re: Trigger pull drills

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cserv</div><div class="ubbcode-body">JP,
Unless your finger comes unhinged and slides back along the first phalange(sp), yoyr trigger pull will never be absolutely straight back. Your finger joints are hinged, so movement is in an arc. Our goal is to complete the firing task while minimizing the effect of the rearward arc on the trigger pull, so the rifle and sight picture are not disturbed. Anatomy jusy does not allow a true straigh back trigger pull, using only your fingers.

Eric </div></div>

Yes, i am aware of that fact. Although, if you achieve a 90 degree angle on the trigger finger, that mitigates the arc. Plus, the trigger doesn't travel very far when you break the shot. If your trigger finger position is correct, then your finger and the trigger travels only a very small segment of the arc which can be assumed srtaight back. But, technically, yes its not exactly straight.

 

[Gruffskin]

Re: Trigger pull drills

Always thought about this and wondered why rifle triggers did not evolve into a push button

Gruff

 

[Gruffskin]

Re: Trigger pull drills

I would agree. Now when attmpting to put several rounds into one ragged hole the effect of trigger pull becomes really pronouced. Nothing more frustrating than screwing up good groups. I have also noticed that on these misses I never get comforatable with my trigger hand position, which I have discovered is a result of an ill fitting stock.

 

[Cserv]

Re: Trigger pull drills

Kraig
I totally agree with the proper grip
, stance, and smooth. Because if the foundation is solid and sight picture is not disturbed, that little bit of finger can't destroy all that by itself. To blow the shot would take more than just your sqeeze being off.
Eric

 

[jephthai]

Re: Trigger pull drills

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cserv</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I watchef two shots at 10 impact withi 1" of each other with the pistol being fire harshly with a big screwdriver.</div></div>

I'm thinking a decent rifle triggered with a screwdriver could hold a 10" 2-shot group at a 100...

 

[Topstrap]

Re: Trigger pull drills

Interesting thread and interesting to see what others think about how proper trigger control affects their shots. We've shot LR pistol of some type or another since the late 70's. Someone above mentioned how critical trigger control is for precision pistol shooting and even more so when you're shooting way out past what some consider long distances for a rifle with a handgun.

My son, myself and buddy DaleT have switched over to LR rifle this summer for the 1000 yard matches just to see how we'd do after using our Bolt action pistols the past two years. Not sure this only pertains to trigger control like this thread is mainly about but also what some on call NPA (natural point of aim). We've not shot very much LR rifle but the techniques used for 1000 yard matches with a pistol was very easy to bring over to the rifles and made the transition easy. It's all about smooth and proper technique doing the same exact thing every time whether it be a pistol or rifle.

We've been playing around just to occasionally show off a bit but then realized that it's way more than just a stunt. With both our LR pistols and LR rifles we can get into position get lined up on the target and look away or close eyes and continue our squeeze and nearly every time still hit what we're aiming at on our normal size targets.

We've talked about it and wonder if that might be something to strive for in training for precision shooting. I realize this won't work shooting offhand, kneeling and some other awkward positions but for most of us that shoot using bipods with bags for most of our matches if this might show that we've pretty much got the NPA and trigger control down pretty darn good?

I'm sure most on here have seen the Top Shot episode where one of the shooters looked away as he shot the target with the handgun.... it's just good proper technique but does take a ton of practice to get comfortable, then just think how easy it'll become when you are staring thru the scope till it goes off.

I don't have a clip of a rifle but here is one that got me thinking about how perfect everything would have to be to be able to hit the target after looking away and still continuing to hold your position and squeezing the trigger. Here is a clip of DaleT doing it with one of his LR pistols at 700 yards.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNtDajTMydc

Another to show how my son does keep his trigger finger at 90deg and how perfect his squeeze and control have to be knowing how the gun is going to react after it goes off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imJyqvJbfoY

Up to the point of it starting to recoil nothing else matters other than having the exact same tension on anything the gun touches whether it be you, a bench, sandbags, tree limb, sling or dirt pile and total focus on squeezing the trigger straight back. After it goes off you're just going along for the ride and don't try to interfere with what the gun wants to do naturally. That is why we've tried these shots just to see how it does when it's all done right.

Don't start saying this is showboating or we only get occasional hits, it's amazing how well you can do when you do everything right. Dry firing is one way to develop proper technique, the other things some have mentioned above are also great training tools. Some shooters develop very fast and others start off with so many bad habits it takes a long time to make them go away. As for myself, when I started long ago they didn't call me "Crunch" for nothing, just showing that it don't come easy to some of us.

Found this on another thread, I think it's great and perfectly describes what we all are trying to attain.

It might not be an exaggeration to say that the only thing completely 'settled' about marksmanship is that it involves the practice of manipulating the trigger without disturbing the alignment of the sights.

Topstrap

 

[TOP PREDATOR]

Re: Trigger pull drills

a thing i've found while offhand shooting (and carried over to bench or prone shooting) is to ride the trigger guard with the bottom of the index finger, esentially having two points of contact - bottom of finger on the guard and the tip of the trigger on the pad of the finger.

seems i pull off center less and also seems ther is more leverage, making the sqeeze feel smoother. also (depending on the stock configuration and your grip where you put your thumb) i like to bring back the index as if i was going to touch my thumb. much like i was going to pinch the middle of the stock with my fingers.

i do like using the quarter or even a dime for dry fire practice. and it only costs $.25 or $.10 and takes no batteries.

 

[Prebanpaul]

Re: Trigger pull drills

Hello

Just my two cents,,,,,, I beg to differ with someone saying that I have the inability to pull straight back on the trigger. Your argumnet may be right if my trigger was not moving less than 3 thousandths of an inch. If you do not have creep in your trigger, you can pull it straight back. Basically you dont even need to pull it just put pressure on it

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Trigger pull drills

As Kraig alluded, trigger control and dry firing go hand in hand.Others here, talking about pulling the trigger straight back and what part of the finger should contact the trigger, must remember the ergonomics and fire control design of the rifle will dictate the relationship between pistol grip and firing hand, as well as trigger and trigger finger. Forcing any part of the finger to rest on the trigger because someone said that's what you are supposed to do is bad advice. For me, shooting the AR, I grip the pistol grip high enough so that my trigger finger is parallel with the action when it is straight and off the trigger. Then I will place my finger on the trigger where it naturally wants to fall which is somewhere in the area of my first joint and second pad. I have no problem with trigger control. Dry firing practice makes perfect.

 

[Gruffskin]

Re: Trigger pull drills

I would agree about the ergo part of the successful trigger pull. The more time I spend behind my current stock the more I am aware that it is not placing my hand in position that promotes consistency. I am a big fan of ar-15 type ergonomics. Going to make some adjustments to my setup and see if I can be more consistent.
Until then the dry firing in the dark per the "froggy" article over at accurate shooter titled "bugholes from a bipod"

 

[sled_mack]

Re: Trigger pull drills

I won't deny that good ergo's help. But I've seen too many people shoot another person's rifle that was not at all setup for them (short guy picking up a rifle with a long LOP, for example) and shoot the rifle better than the owner. People that can do that have mastered the fundamentals to a level where they can apply them to any rifle they pick up.

I'm all for customizing my own rifle so the ergo's are good for me. But I know that bad ergo's are not an excuse for poor shooting. If I miss, I own it - regardless of the ergo's of the rifle. And for the record, I'm a long way from having mastered the fundamentals on my own rifle let alone on anyone else's.

 

[jpspeeddemon]

Re: Trigger pull drills

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sterling Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As Kraig alluded, trigger control and dry firing go hand in hand.Others here, talking about pulling the trigger straight back and what part of the finger should contact the trigger, must remember the ergonomics and fire control design of the rifle will dictate the relationship between pistol grip and firing hand as well as trigger and trigger finger for any hand size. Overall, trigger control can be achieved when the trigger finger falls naturally on the trigger. That's to say, forcing any part of the finger to rest on the trigger because someone said that's what you are supposed to do is bad advice. <span style="font-weight: bold">For me, shooting the AR, I grip the pistol grip high enough so that my trigger finger is parallel with the action when it is straight and off the trigger. Then I will place my finger on the trigger where it naturally wants to fall which is somewhere in the area of my first joint and second pad. I have no problem with trigger control.</span> Dry firing practice makes perfect. </div></div>

Sterling,

I disagree with this approach of gripping the rifle first and then allowing the trigger finger to naturally lay in place. I shoot McMillian pistol grip stock (A2), AICS thumbhole, Savage MKII with thumbhole stock, and Savage MKII with standard hunter wood stock and each hand position is different, yet the results are the same.

I place the pad of my finger on the trigger, then find the hand position that allows me to keep 90 degree angle on the trigger finger while allowing me to apply some rearward pressure with the firing hand.

Poor trigger control can cause horizontal stringing of shots and i almost never have this problem.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

Re: Trigger pull drills

You're establishing grip placement from trigger finger. I work trigger finger from grip. I'm also shooting an AR. I shoot bolt guns too with prone stocks and very light single stage triggers. With these my grip is different and so is the spot where I contact the trigger. Trigger control is not an issue. And it only becomes an issue for the new shooter when he is not allowed to experiment. The only thing important is the out come. Use whatever technique gets the job done, that's to say produces SMOOTH; but, don't dictate the technique to another shooter unless what he's doing is not working. For a shooter who is producing groups with occasionally bad shots, dry firing exercises may reveal trigger control is not SMOOTH and experimentation with grip and trigger finger placement is warranted.

Now back to the AR, my technique is not unique. It's taught by the USAMU as a method which is known to get SMOOTH from shooters just starting out as well as High Masters. As a CMP-USAMU SDM instructor, I teach the method; and, I've seen, for a multitude of folks in all different sizes, the high grip with trigger finger falling naturally on the trigger gets results. For myself, I could not produce the sort of scores I've produced by placing the tip of my finger on the AR trigger. I'm certain of that. It's what I did when I began to shoot the AR in Service Rifle competition. I had fliers galore. Then someone with the AMU at the SAFS many years ago suggested the technique that they use. I trusted their judgement. After all, they're the best marksmen on the planet. At any rate, changing my grip and trigger finger placement helped eliminate bad shots and inspired me to go Distinguished.

BTW, I'm always receptive to folks like you who want to show me how to do it. Since you think my grip and trigger placement is wrong for the AR perhaps you have a recommendation for the AR. I'd also like to know how your technique is working out for you when shooting the AR.

One more thing, from the SDM curriculum "Proper placement of the firing hand on the pistol grip allows the trigger to be moved straight to the rear without disturbing sight alignment. To accomplish this: the firing hand should be placed high on the pistol grip, the shooter should grasp the pistol grip with a firm handshake like grip, and the trigger finger should fall naturally on the trigger". From this, you might want to redirect your disagreement to the USAMU.

 

[Gruffskin]

Re: Trigger pull drills

Thanks for all the info, now to the range

 

[redirt78]

Re: Trigger pull drills

I need to try some of this.

I just ordered an I.O.T.A. The "Indoor Optical Training Aid" from Chuck(264shooter)

Check it out

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Vu</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Everyone says dry fire, dry fire, dry fire, and then do some more dry firing to improve your fundamentals, and positional shooting skills. If this is the case, how come most shooters don’t do it?

I believe that most guys don’t dry fire because they can’t do it in the comfort of their own home without having to put their cross hairs on their neighbor’s house or focus on something down the street. Depending on where you live, you could get a visit by your local PD.

We all know most scopes are not designed to focus down to 10 to 12 feet, which is the distance that can be found in any house or apartment hallway. Most of the scopes I have used won’t even focus down at 20 feet clearly and parallax free to enable me to really focus on the sight picture while dry firing.

Chuck from Reno, Nevada has developed a new gadget that will make dry firing indoors a whole new experience. Chuck calls his little invention the I.O.T.A, Indoor Optical Training Aid. The guys in our club have been the guinea pigs for the last several months for this neat gadget that will allow a shooter to focus a 20X scope down to 10 feet, clearly and parallax free. The sight picture is so clear and focused that you can actually see the fibers on a piece of paper at 10 feet on 20X.

The unit itself is rather simple, and works flawlessly. Each I.O.T.A is made for a specific objective diameter of a particular optic. The one Chuck made for me is designed for my Premier 5-25X. The unit comes completely assembled and ready to go. All the shooter has to do is take off their existing objective lens cover and replace it with the I.O.T.A. No other modification is needed to your scope in order to use the I.O.T.A.

BAM! Now you can focus down to about 10 feet on 20X with your Premier 5-25X. It doesn’t get any easier than that.

Here is my dry firing setup in my bedroom. All I needed was 10 feet from the scope to the target.

I used a moving box with a few small dots for my point of aim. There is a ½” dot that I use for positional practice, a ¼”” dot I use for speed drills, and a little dot I put on the box with a sharpie for prone dry firing practice.

Here are a few pictures taken through the scope to give you an idea of what the sight picture looks like. To be fair to the I.O.T.A, I suck at taking pictures like this. It took me 45 freaking minutes to get these. When you are actually behind the scope, the sight picture is crystal clear. I had my Premier set at 20X - 25X focused on a target 10 feet away

Now I am able to dry fire with a clear and parallax free sight picture inside the comfort of my own home.

After having the chance to play with the I.O.T.A for a bit, I came up with the target pictured below. It has dots small enough for slow fire prone, speed drills, hold over drills, and positional practice. The I.O.T.A can also be used to ensure your reticle is lined up correctly via a plumb line. You will be amazed how clearly you can focus on a thin piece of thread at 10 feet.

I believe Chuck will be offering these for around $60.00 shipped. The price is right considering the cost of match ammo and components these days. Chuck goes by 264shooter on the Hide, or can be reached at [email protected]. He was hesitant about putting this out there for sale in the mainstream, but I think the I.O.T.A. can help all of us improve our shooting while save a few bucks on ammo. </div></div>

<span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'">LINK TO VU's THREAD <</span>

 

[Gruffskin]

Re: Trigger pull drills

I tried some new things at the range and one of the things that helped was having my trigger finger low and graze the trigger guard as I fired. I could feel on the finger whether or not I was getting sloppy from right to left.

Gruff