Night Vision Trijicon Thermals

[mark5868]

Why doesn't Trijicon update their thermals like the Hunter, Reap or Patrol?

By update I'm referring to features such as PIP, on board recording, battery packs, maybe wifi, enable firmware updates, etc.

I know those are all features in the newer Pulsar thermals, but hey they're great features. Why hasn't Trijicon updated current units or come out with a new model?

 

[mirage98]

1) I don’t know if the market/customers are really demanding any of that stuff.

2) Probably doesn’t make sense to add any of that to the current product. Only reason to release a new product is a new thermal core that differentiates from current core(s), which I believe there hasn’t been anything really new (feature or cost wise) to go build a new product around.

 

[wigwamitus]

Right now, it seems like the next "leap" for Trijicon will be restarting manufacturing and sales of the BAE OASYS product line ... so same OASYS cores ... but better lenses ... software etc. Though no data on pricing changes (if any) yet.

But I agree with mirage98 ... I don't think most Trijicon customers want/need those "features" ... I can speak for myself ... I don't. The third party battery pack sold by UNV works fine.

"Features" cost money ... Trijicon prices are high enough already

 

[Sledge1]

I'm in the same boat. For the money, image and reliability trumps the other features in my mind.

 

[mirage98]

Yup.

Just let me buy some oasys units and I’ll be good!

My bank account and wife are another story..

 

[mark5868]

What about a laser range finder? I guess I like the bells and whistles.

 

[wigwamitus]

Plenty of third party range finders ...

WIlcox RAPTAR on L&S 3-18x T3 behind BAE OASYS UTC-x ^^


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SCO Radius on Xtr2 3-15x scr-mil behind KAC PVS-30 ^^

 

[Hobbes442]

I have Mark 2 and bought a Radius. it made a huge difference hunting hogs at night . worked perfectly - was another game changer for judging distances. shot tree line in day vs night and was 1172 yds vs 1170 in day. made hunting even more fun- if that's possible.
pip would be nice but better clarity much more important

 

[mark5868]

Plenty of third party range finders ...

WIlcox RAPTAR on L&S 3-18x T3 behind BAE OASYS UTC-x ^^


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SCO Radius on Xtr2 3-15x scr-mil behind KAC PVS-30 ^^

I know there are third party LRF's and there's also third party recording devices and that's kinda my point here.

The problem is you got all that junk hanging on your rifle with batteries and wires, etc.

I gotta believe if Trijicon added those features to their MKIII for example it would be a considerable improvement.

 

[wigwamitus]

... you got all that junk ...

One man's junk is another man's jewel !

==

... I gotta believe ...

I cannot tell you what to believe ... I can just show/explain what works for me.

With the higher power and clearer resolution of the clipons ... it is possible to more accurately range smaller objects out farther away ... with these setups ... than with the integrated range finders.

They can be used with the Mk2/Mk3 dedicated scopes ... or actually any day or night scope ...

==
Some want "everything" in one box .. others like the flexibility to mix and match for the purpose of the day (night).

Nothing wrong with that dichotomy.

 

[Sledge1]

I know a lot of people like to record things for whatever reason. I personally don't. I don't watch other people's hog/ coyote/ whatever hunting videos on YouTube for hours. I have no need to pay for onboard recording, wifi or any other additional gadgets. I know some people would, that's fine. To each their own. I agree that it would be great for Triji to " offer " an option for all that onboard stuff, but I'd bet that they're pretty happy with the way things are.

 

[KillerCreed]

Plenty of third party range finders ...

WIlcox RAPTAR on L&S 3-18x T3 behind BAE OASYS UTC-x ^^


==hello wig how are u my friend it’s been awhile since we spoke on the phone about the filter lesson u gave me ?
...I got a question for ya because I don’t know, but I know u do know ?...6 months ago u could find and purchase a SiCo Radius, now u cannot...well I found one today and it’s virtually brand new which that makes no difference to me because I use my stuff hard...I offered 4 he said 450 I said 10-4 I’ll take it...ild be using it along side of my Reap and along side of my Flir Arma pts536 in which I’ve never used and my Spa KN203...please tell me it’s gonna work just fine and really gonna help when used with my Thermals

SCO Radius on Xtr2 3-15x scr-mil behind KAC PVS-30 ^^

 

[Hobbes442]

You will find using radios at night is another gamechanger

 

[wigwamitus]

... using radios at night is another gamechanger ...

Totally agree. We've used radios in teams of 2-4 when hog hunting ... the ability to do all around viewing like 4 x 120 degree (overlapping) sectors and "whisper" to each other (on the radios) is great for detection and orienting the team towards the hogs.

In one case, the team leader talked us through crawling under a fence and setting up under a bush prone ... then he told us to shoot the closest sow on top of some bales at 40yds and prepare for the hogs to take off to our left. He counted down (on the radio, he was now 5 yds away) and bang the first sow was gone and half the pigs ran left and the other half ran directly away ... we mowed down some of those heading left, then he told us to switch fire to a large sow heading away at 200yds ... we switched fire and got her.

So, yes, radios are a game changer.

 

[Pbjunkiee]

Totally agree. We've used radios in teams of 2-4 when hog hunting ... the ability to do all around viewing like 4 x 120 degree (overlapping) ..........SNIP........pare for the hogs to take off to our left. He counted down (on the radio, he was now 5 yds away) and bang the first sow was gone and half the pigs ran left and the other half ran directly away ... we mowed down some of those heading left, then he told us to switch fire to a large sow heading away at 200yds ... we switched fire and got her.

So, yes, radios are a game changer.

I need to come hunt with you......

 

[Spooky68]

I’ll bring the beer.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Why doesn't Trijicon update their thermals like the Hunter, Reap or Patrol?

By update I'm referring to features such as PIP, on board recording, battery packs, maybe wifi, enable firmware updates, etc.

I know those are all features in the newer Pulsar thermals, but hey they're great features. Why hasn't Trijicon updated current units or come out with a new model?

It seems that they have largely coasted since taking over IR Defense. They have winning products and have been smart enough not to mess them up...not that some changes wouldn't be nice, at least some variants on the models offered.

Onboard recording is likely going to take the offering of a new model(s) in order to include the additional hardware needed.

PiP is not owned/patented by Pulsar and it would be a nice feature to have offered, I agree.

Firmware updates are a two-edged sword. They allow for changes to be made to the firmware, but if the firmware works properly, why mess with it? I can see that perspective from the manufacturer's point of view. Pulsar and ATN have both had issues with firmware and released units before they were ready for prime time, and needed to be able to make updates to the units. That has both displeased and pleased customers.

Battery packs? Covered nicely by 3rd party vendors.

Wifi? This seems to be one of the more gimmicky features that people think is really cool, but don't use very often in real life.

 

[MarinePMI]

2019 will likely show some new product offerings....

 

[MarinePMI]

Update/FYI: Trijicon will start taking orders this fall for the Oasys cored thermals.

 

[foxkilr89]

Update/FYI: Trijicon will start taking orders this fall for the Oasys cored thermals.

Any pricing on the utc xii?

 

[MarinePMI]

Not that I'm aware of, but I talked to the program manager the other day. He said he'd have to find his username/password, but intended to come here to comment on details.

 

[samson7x]

Update/FYI: Trijicon will start taking orders this fall for the Oasys cored thermals.

Anymore updates? Details?

 

[mirage98]

Whelp... looks like I’m gonna be in the dog house. But at least I’ll have an oasys thermal!

 

[MarinePMI]

Anymore updates? Details?

Nope, I've been on vacation. I'll try to shoot the PM an e-mail today for any updates.

 

[MJ2936]

New to the thermal game here, but can someone explain to me the benefit of the oasys system over the reapir? Are they dedicated thermal scopes or clip ons? If they are clip ons, do they produce similar or better image quality than a dedicated thermal scope? I can see how having a thermal that can piggy back off your day scope and not lose image quality would justify the jump in cost

 

[wigwamitus]

... the benefit of the oasys system over the reapir ...

Just to be clear, the REAP-IR has an OASYS core ... the BAE OASYS product line thermals, also have OASYS cores.

==

... Are they dedicated thermal scopes or clip ons?

The BAE OASYS product line includes monoculars, bioculars and clipons

https://www.baesystems.com/en-us/product/oasys-thermal-imaging-and-aiming

==

... having a thermal that can piggy back off your day scope and not lose image quality would justify the jump in cost ...

There is no such critter as that. Any time you zoom in on the TV screen, you will loose resolution. Using the "tiny screen trick" that the long range military thermal clipons use ... mitigates resolution loss by a factor of 3-4 ... but resolution loss still occurs.[/quote]

 

[MJ2936]

thank you for the reply. So what makes the BAE OASYS systems cost thousand more over the Reapir if they use the same core? Lenses? Hardware?

 

[wigwamitus]

They do not use the same lenses or housings. All they have in common is the same core. I actually answered this question in the "REAP-2" thread, a few hours ago, in more detail. Can you go read that over there please, so I don't have to type it again?

Here is the link to that post, to make it easier to find ...

https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/new-trijicon-reap-2-line.6900454/#post-7213206

 

[tkp401119]

I tried googling tiny screen trick you mentioned with no luck. Do you mind explaining how that works and why the UTC-x works better than the snipe ir if the snipe ir has a 12 vs 17 micron core?

 

[wigwamitus]

first the 12 versus 17 aspect. The smaller pitch size buys you a smaller light core that uses less power. It gives the device designer to ability to design a smaller lighter less power hungry widget. But the device designer has to act accordingly to gain the benefits of the smaller pitch.

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The tiny screen trick ... demagnifiy on the rear end and remagnify on the front ... net/net 1x through the device ...
When you look at the rear, the image is demagnified ... when the day scope looks at the image ... the image on the thermal display does not fill the day scope view. You might have to crank up the magnification to 3x or 4x to have the thermal display image filling what you can see thru the scope.
From there each multiple of that magnification reduces your resolution by a certain amount ...

For a non tiny screen trick thermal clipon ... 1x on the day scope fills the screen. Then 2x looses 75% of the resolution. 4x looses another 75% ...

For 4x tiny screen trick thermal clipon ... 4x fills the screen ... 8x looses that same 75% resolution ... 16x looses another 75% ...

So 16x on the UTC-x is roughly like 4x on a non-tiny screen thermal clipon.

Well, that's the short version anyway. I've written longer versions around here over the past 1-2 years. But that's the short version.

 

[Zemperfi1971]

For me its about durability and the added full powered IR and Visible Lasers on the BAE products vs. the Trijicon. Have both and will tell you at 100-300 yards...you're not going to tell that big of a difference between 12 to 17 micron but that also depends on the lenses and which models you are looking at.

 

[MarinePMI]

FYI...Trijicon is now the licensed seller of BAE OASYS cored products.

 

[Maelstrom]

Update/FYI: Trijicon will start taking orders this fall for the Oasys cored thermals.

Recommendations where to order one or whom to talk to?

 

[Machinist-Mills]

If you check out the trijicon website under the thermal section they revamped the reaper line for next year. Different millimeter lenses different battery housings Mounting Solutions.

 

[TKO]

I was at the Knob Creek Ky Machine Gun Shoot two years ago and looked at the Ir Hunter, think it was priced at $5999. I went back this year and its still the same price, argggg! I was of the thought that in a couple years the price would drop in half, not so. I wish Trijicon would come out with some new models so that the old models would drop in price, 6k is pretty steep. For the money and one I may buy, the FLIR PTS 233 was pretty decent but not close to the Trijicon Hunter series.

 

[Machinist-Mills]

Doesn't look like Trijicon is going to innovate. They keep selling that outline mode... I don't want the thing to have Bluetooth and Wi-Fi but you're right 4 years old Tech still selling for the same price. I think that I talked the girl into a flir breach for xmas.

 

[wigwamitus]

... They keep selling that outline mode ...

Outline mode is in the core. That's a BAE OASYS core. I suppose Trijicon could remove it, they do write the UI/interface code. But they "sell" it, because it is already in the core.

 

[Machinist-Mills]

I guess I'm referring to the fact that every brand has something, pulsars picture and pictures pretty cool, color palettes are kinda neat. I just wish trijicon had something like downloadable radical or bdc. It does seem like they make the smallest unit out there and its trijicon tough.

 

[Killswitch Engage]

Doesn't look like Trijicon is going to innovate. They keep selling that outline mode... I don't want the thing to have Bluetooth and Wi-Fi but you're right 4 years old Tech still selling for the same price. I think that I talked the girl into a flir breach for xmas.

im not sure about that. they have the best commerical thermals built hands down, no dumb ass plastic injection molded housings that cause zero shift in ambient temp swings. ill take what my reap does and how it performs over onbaord recording, pip and any other feature pulsar has. i was on pulsar prostaff for 2 yrs so i am pretty confident in what went on

 

[Machinist-Mills]

I had one for a couple of months and it was great. And if anyone asks I said I told them it would be the one I'd pick if I had to hunt two-legged Critters. But for the 4-legged hunters pulsar and flir are 1/2 the price... and work.
Trijicon is a great company and the value is always their. I just cant always afford their products like many other people.
We should see more people with Trijicon thermals throw it up some pictures and videos... (not making a comment on the out put) no one's output matches what looking through the scope is like.

 

[robbf213]

Ill take my reap ir as is. Honestly if I wanted bluetooth and other things I'd get a Pulsar. I like the fact that I can run it on a helmet, add an external battery pack if I need that much battery life or attach the dvr. The smaller footprint outweighs everything in my opinion.

 

[wigwamitus]

I've never gotten video to work with OASYS cored units, I know a couple of people who have. When I spoke with IRD about it, they said "It is hard, but some of our people have done it"

But I have been able to download stills with SOME units. Usually though I just take thru the lens pics.

So, I will stipulate that video/still is NOT a strength of the OASYS core units, in my experience and if you want to take lots of movies, maybe you are better off with something else !

I do miss it ... I took a lot when I had the Armasights, but I isn't a requirement for me. Seeing the critters and getting the predators is the requirement for me.

... people with Trijicon thermals throw it up some pictures and videos ...

I'll generalize your request to include OASYS cored thermals ... but here are some pics for you ...

==
This one is thru a mk2 35mm being used as a spotter on 4x digital. I am in the pic. I'm out there with a buggy and a propane torch reheating several steel targets. We were shooting them with the UTCx on the .300WM(24) and the 6.5G(18). In the picc you can see the 900, 800, 700 and 600 yd targets and me and the buggy. This is thru the lens.

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These three are stills downloaded from an IR-PATROL of a group of 12 of us who did a "force on force" one night.

We had three teams of 4 each, two blue teams and one red team. This is Blue-2 team lead with his radio. Only the team leads had radios.

People paying attention to a briefing !

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Got a coon down on the creek bank.

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Cattle on the other side of the alfalfa patch, 500yds

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Deer about 100yds

 

[wigwamitus]

Cattle at 1800 and 2400 in two different pastures

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Cattle in the SE pasture 334 yds

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Deer bedded down at 185yds behind a bunch of tree branches

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Deer bedded down at 423 yds

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Cow 224 yds S pasture

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buck 70yds

 

[Machinist-Mills]

Those are some sexy sexy pics... thanks
Did you use the thermal during the force on force?

 

[wigwamitus]

IIRC we had 5 thermals and six pvs-14s amongst us for the FoF, I had two of the thermals so I lent one of my thermals to #3 in our team. Our point guy was a real rooskie ... he had no NODs .. I don't know how he did it. Maybe he knew the terrain already? But he led us up to just prior to the point where we expected to meet up with our other friendly team. Then I got switched from tail end charlie (which I had recommended that I be - where I'd been sweeping our flanks and rear with my thermal) to point as the team lead figured I'd see the other 2-legged critters first with the helmet mounted patrol, which I did.