Me and my wife are getting into long range shooting. We are having trouble spotting our misses out around 900 yards. My question is where is my money better spent higher end spotting scope good binos or a kestrel. I have a limited budget and was leaning toward binos. I hear spotting trace is easier with them and i could also use them for hunting. All thoughts are appreciated
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Trouble spotting
- Thread starter Rlovato
- Start date
If you're wanting to spot misses at distance, you need a spotter capable of 'seeing' that far. However, you may not be seeing the trace because you may not have the spotter set up properly.
Try this with your spotter (I am assuming you have one):
- Set the spotter as much in line with the gun that is shooting as possible (behind it, not next to it)
- Get on target but don't try to zoom in on just that spot, keep a decent area in view for misses and seeing environmental factors. Also remember, the higher the mag, the more mirage you'll get in view.
- Once on your target, and you're lined up where you want it on the spotter's reticle (if you have one) focus the focus adjustment NOT on the target, but on something about 60-70% of the way to the target
Now you should see the trace. If you don't, its either because the mirage is basically obscuring it (not too common on higher end glass), you're not focused properly, or your glass has shit resolution/clarity.
At 900 yards you're not going to see shit with 10x binoculars that will allow you to accurately call any correction or adjustment. Sure, you can, but why make this way harder than it needs to be? At that point you might as well just spot through another optic on a second gun.
As far as needing a Kestrel, well, 2 different things. Do you want to spot and adjust for misses or do you want to get enviromental data to set up your shots? Kind of like asking if you should get a better engine or a better suspension on a car.
Try this with your spotter (I am assuming you have one):
- Set the spotter as much in line with the gun that is shooting as possible (behind it, not next to it)
- Get on target but don't try to zoom in on just that spot, keep a decent area in view for misses and seeing environmental factors. Also remember, the higher the mag, the more mirage you'll get in view.
- Once on your target, and you're lined up where you want it on the spotter's reticle (if you have one) focus the focus adjustment NOT on the target, but on something about 60-70% of the way to the target
Now you should see the trace. If you don't, its either because the mirage is basically obscuring it (not too common on higher end glass), you're not focused properly, or your glass has shit resolution/clarity.
At 900 yards you're not going to see shit with 10x binoculars that will allow you to accurately call any correction or adjustment. Sure, you can, but why make this way harder than it needs to be? At that point you might as well just spot through another optic on a second gun.
As far as needing a Kestrel, well, 2 different things. Do you want to spot and adjust for misses or do you want to get enviromental data to set up your shots? Kind of like asking if you should get a better engine or a better suspension on a car.
Only reasoning behind the kestel is there is no dirt birm behind the 900 yard steel. Figured i could true the ballistics on it and know my elevation is set correctly. Right now we are using hornadys 4dof and it has been a pain to match the come ups.
The tips on setting up the spotting scope is great we will try next time out. I have a cheaper simmons 20-60×60 spotting scope hopefully its good enough for now
The tips on setting up the spotting scope is great we will try next time out. I have a cheaper simmons 20-60×60 spotting scope hopefully its good enough for now
Good advice above. I will add that your current spotting scope appears to be pretty low quality and is not doing you any favors. I'd upgrade, even if budget is tight.
This is a darn good deal on a much better spotting scope. It's still in the "budget" category but even at new prices it compares favorably with high end glass. I've owned one before, but have since moved on to more expensive glass.
No affiliation with seller, but I'd snatch this up if I were in your shoes. Smoking deal.
https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/konus-konuspot-80-20-60x80-mm-price-drop.6885002/
This is a darn good deal on a much better spotting scope. It's still in the "budget" category but even at new prices it compares favorably with high end glass. I've owned one before, but have since moved on to more expensive glass.
No affiliation with seller, but I'd snatch this up if I were in your shoes. Smoking deal.
https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/konus-konuspot-80-20-60x80-mm-price-drop.6885002/
As far as the Kestrel, if you are shooting 900 yards already, you should probably get one anyways. In the long run it will probably save you money when you start adding up the cost of each round spent trying to 'find' your target. Additionally, you need one because the environmental shifts alone with density altitude, at the distances you are shooting, will change the exterior ballistics enough to where a hit on the plate one day can be a miss on the same plate the next day.
This is normally the cause of that one guy you see at the range who now thinks something is wrong with his scope/ammo/gun because he just sighted it in perfectly 2 weeks ago and now its off zero and shooting 3 inches high/low, only to re zero it and then have the same problem again next range trip.
Make sure whatever you do, that the Kestrel you get has density altitude.
Check your spotter and see how it works out for you with focusing on 60-70% of the way there. If its still hard to see anything, yet you see the trace, but not all the way to the target or everything at the target is just a blur, its the quality of your spotter.
This is normally the cause of that one guy you see at the range who now thinks something is wrong with his scope/ammo/gun because he just sighted it in perfectly 2 weeks ago and now its off zero and shooting 3 inches high/low, only to re zero it and then have the same problem again next range trip.
Make sure whatever you do, that the Kestrel you get has density altitude.
Check your spotter and see how it works out for you with focusing on 60-70% of the way there. If its still hard to see anything, yet you see the trace, but not all the way to the target or everything at the target is just a blur, its the quality of your spotter.
You have a good app in 4dof. The Kestrel isn't a magic wand. You can just as easily get good dope from the 4dof as you will from the Kestrel. There is a process and learning curve on both.
A Quality spotting scope is certainly nice to have, but your Simmons should be sufficient for spotting trace.
- Keep the magnification turned down (20-30x). You certainly don't need much magnification to see trace and a wider field of view makes life easier.
- Focusing short of the target can at times help spotting trace, but it will also increase distortion and mirage you'll see at the target. Don't be afraid to play with focusing at different distances to find what works for your situation.
- Trace will put you in the ballpark, but isn't as precise as actually seeing the hit splatter
Spotting misses depending on terrain/environment/setup can be a losing battle you'll never win regardless of cash spent. What are the terrain conditions surrounding your targets? How is your target setup? Time of day/amount of mirage?
- Keep the magnification turned down (20-30x). You certainly don't need much magnification to see trace and a wider field of view makes life easier.
- Focusing short of the target can at times help spotting trace, but it will also increase distortion and mirage you'll see at the target. Don't be afraid to play with focusing at different distances to find what works for your situation.
- Trace will put you in the ballpark, but isn't as precise as actually seeing the hit splatter
Spotting misses depending on terrain/environment/setup can be a losing battle you'll never win regardless of cash spent. What are the terrain conditions surrounding your targets? How is your target setup? Time of day/amount of mirage?
Well... good news is you're not doing anything wrong not being able to spot misses. Bad news is that's a tough setup for spotting misses...Mid-day with very little mirage likely means there wasn't much moisture in the air which is another strike against you as it makes spotting trace even more difficult.
I would try it again with your current gear on a day when there is more moisture in the air as that will help make the trace more defined. Follow German's advice on setup with magnification at 30 or just under. Be sure to keep the target in the lower third of the spotting scope so you can watch the bullet drop into the target. Like all things in life it will take time to adjust to spotting and harder yet following trace every round, but this should get you a solid starting point. If still not able to get any read on trace, Sheldon's suggestion of upgrading the spotting scope would be my next step.
I would try it again with your current gear on a day when there is more moisture in the air as that will help make the trace more defined. Follow German's advice on setup with magnification at 30 or just under. Be sure to keep the target in the lower third of the spotting scope so you can watch the bullet drop into the target. Like all things in life it will take time to adjust to spotting and harder yet following trace every round, but this should get you a solid starting point. If still not able to get any read on trace, Sheldon's suggestion of upgrading the spotting scope would be my next step.
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