Troubleshooting Seekins Havak Element FTF issue

[CuzICan]

Hoping one of you can help out and thanks in advance for any consideration of the problem. I have an antelope hunt in a few days and haven't gotten a call back from Seekins.

Gun: Seekins Havak Element in .308. Probably 160-180 rounds through it.
Pews: Barnes TTSX-BT 150gr

• Experienced 8 failure to fires in about 60 rounds after the gun ran flawlessly for the first 100+. All Barnes through the gun excepting one box of Federal 165s early. Bolt was a little tight in the first 20 rounds but loosened up quickly. Seems to run great now...until the issues started.
• I had four FTFs in one box, tried a different lot of Barnes ammo and began slamming the bolt a bit harder and then had four FTFs in another two boxes from a different lot number a week later.
• Throughout, the bolt seems to run and engage fine. Ejects every round great.
• All FTFs show a strike, but it appears less crisp on the edges of the strike than those that do fire. Successfully spent rounds shown in picture of two casings. FTFs in picture of five rounds
• Was able to get two of three of the last FTFs to fire on second try. Accurate as the normal rounds on target. Third that didn't fire on second try, shown in picture on the far right of five rounds, would not fire but clearly received a second strike.
• I've NEVER had a problem with Barnes and this is too consistent to be blamed on ammo from two different lots, IMO.
• Bolt face shows some wear on the inside of the lip. Brass particles inside. (See pic)
• There's also a bit of metal scrape/wear on the inside lip of the barrel where the casing sits. Don't know the name of this area and can't get a good picture.

Bolt or headspacing problem? Something else?

I'm not bagging on Seekins. I absolutely love this gun.

 

[clark33]

I'd reach out to Seekins. They have stellar customer service and will take care of it.

 

[b6graham]

I'd reach out to Seekins. They have stellar customer service and will take care of it.

he mentioned in the first line he's waiting for a call back

to the OP

i'd fine another rifle and get it ready to go just in case this isnt't a quick fix. even a new/replacement part is 1-2 days out (I'm sure there are several of us in Colorado who have something to get you through if you need)

luckily antelope aren't elk and finding a substitute gun is a little easier

 

[jbell]

1: try completely different ammo
2: disassemble the bolt and check for any reason the firing pin isn’t traveling free, like: debris / burrs / broken spring / etc.

 

[CuzICan]

he mentioned in the first line he's waiting for a call back

to the OP

i'd fine another rifle and get it ready to go just in case this isnt't a quick fix. even a new/replacement part is 1-2 days out (I'm sure there are several of us in Colorado who have something to get you through if you need)

luckily antelope aren't elk and finding a substitute gun is a little easier

I bought another .300WM Seekins Havak Element for me before this one. Loved it so much I "purchased the wife one in .308". Wife won't shoot the .300 and would rather take her chances with the .308. This is the kicker. I just put my three other rifles up for consignment last week so I don't have a backup. She's much more picky than I am and I doubt I'll be able to get her on another rifle. Great suggestion and I appreciate the Colorado love!!

 

[CuzICan]

1: try completely different ammo
2: disassemble the bolt and check for any reason the firing pin isn’t traveling free, like: debris / burrs / broken spring / etc.

Should've mentioned this in the original. I did disassemble the bolt and everything looks perfect. Even disassembled my .300 Seekins bolt to compare and there's nothing that stands out to me. Looks great.

 

[jbell]

I would try different ammo then.

 

[IronOperator87]

+ 1 Try different ammo

 

[CuzICan]

Will try the different ammo. Doesn't that number of brass filings in the bolt strike anyone as problematic?

 

[IronOperator87]

Looks like you have a burr or sharp edge on your extractor maybe… extractor groove

 

[Texar]

1)I would remove the ejector,extractor and firing pin. Then check headspace. Some brands of ammo are sized differently as well.
2)Check firing pin protrusion
3) Check the trigger to make sure that the sear is pulling the firing pin back far enough. Some sear locations end up falling short.

 

[CuzICan]

1)I would remove the ejector,extractor and firing pin. Then check headspace. Some brands of ammo are sized differently as well.
2)Check firing pin protrusion
3) Check the trigger to make sure that the sear is pulling the firing pin back far enough. Some sear locations end up falling short.

The one you've circled was fired twice. Two pin strikes, no bang.

 

[Texar]

Yup. Had a timney do that once. Needed a longer sear. Primer needs to be hit hard and deep the first time. The timney would dent them deeper the second hit but still no bang.

 

[jbell]

Being a 308, could you try the rounds that did not fire in a different rifle?

+1 on Texar’s recommendations

 

[SmartDonkey]

The only problem I've ever had with my seekins was ftf- just like this.... They sent me a new firing pin assembly and it fixed the problem. On the early havaks they had bolt replacement program if you wanted it-- but I would think the elements were later enough that they already had the upgrade...

I would clean the brass out of the bolt but not something I'd worry about.

 

[CuzICan]

The only problem I've ever had with my seekins was ftf- just like this.... They sent me a new firing pin assembly and it fixed the problem. On the early havaks they had bolt replacement program if you wanted it-- but I would think the elements were later enough that they already had the upgrade...

I would clean the brass out of the bolt but not something I'd worry about.

This one was purchased withing the last few months. It has the new generation bolt. I can't get them to call me back.

Thanks! Helps to know it's not a one-off but a little concerning that the "new gen" bolt is having some minor issues too.

 

[CuzICan]

UPDATE: Seekins just called and is overnighting me a new firing pin assembly and bolt face. THAT'S CUSTOMER SERVICE!!

 

[jbell]

UPDATE: Seekins just called and is overnighting me a new firing pin assembly and bolt face. THAT'S CUSTOMER SERVICE!!

I'm not surprised, Seekins C/S is on point.

 

[CuzICan]

UPDATE: the new firing pin and bolt head did not fix the FTF issue. Sent the rifle to Seekins for repair. They've had it for over a week. No response yet.

 

[melglass]

A bud just called me this week with the same prob with that ammo in a different gun. have you tried any other ammo recently? It’s just a pr with the last lot he got.

 

[CuzICan]

A bud just called me this week with the same prob with that ammo in a different gun. have you tried any other ammo recently? It’s just a pr with the last lot he got.

I've tried two other types of high quality factory. Occurred more often with Hornady's factory brass. Less often with Federal. I'm not switching factory ammo because the gun can't handle it. The gun should shoot any factory ammo IMO.

 

[CuzICan]

A bud just called me this week with the same prob with that ammo in a different gun. have you tried any other ammo recently? It’s just a pr with the last lot he got.

PS - I've also tried 3 different lots of Barnes

 

[colfaxent]

So how did you end up with this? Is it shooting now?

 

[HY3NA47]

Late to the party...
I have a very love/hate relation ship with my Havak. Last year the firing pin allegedly "broke" on a lifetime muley. Seekins claimed that a certain generation of there rifles have two piece firing pins. So sent it back got it fixed and supposedly broke up to current speck. Year passes, no luck on the hunting front, all on private land or could get a shot (every buck seems to stand right in front of a doe). At the range and now its failing to extract. When this rifle works, its amazing, easily sub moa on. But I have little faith the rifle will actually perform when I need it. I have nothing against Seekins, the customer service has been decent (only complaint is a couple times had to resend some emails to actually get the rifle fixed), but maybe I got a lemon or just dumb back luck.

 

[dworrel]

Any follow up on this? I have a Seekins element rifle in 6.5 PRC that I originally bought to take on a Dall sheep hunt. Because of the FTF issues, I ended up taking a different gun. I had the issue with original barrel, and also had a second barrel chambered in 25sst, which has had the same issues.

I similarly got a very quick response from Seekins customer service that sent me a new firing pin assembly. Hasn’t fixed the problem. I had Alamo Precision Rifles, who chambered my second barrel look at it, and they felt like the Timney trigger that comes standard on the gun might be the culprit.

 

[Obi-WanKannoli]

Interesting, I had one of likely the first seekins havak elements produced and never had an issue with it. That said, the problems in this thread seem to be of the SA flavor, mine was LA.

 

[trinydex]

lots of requests for follow up information...